Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[REShaman]

With regard to the I2S input for the Dac2SE, what specifically are users connecting to that input and what improvement and sound quality results?

 

Best,

Richard

[jrsub]

With regard to the I2S input for the Dac2SE, what specifically are users connecting to that input and what improvement and sound quality results?

 

Best,

Richard

 

Just to clarify, in my previous post the I2S I was referring to was the new I2S DSD USB interface on the DAC-2 DSD SE. Not the 1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format).

[REShaman]

Just to clarify, in my previous post the I2S I was referring to was the new I2S DSD USB interface on the DAC-2 DSD SE. Not the 1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format).

 

Thank you for the clarification, jrsub.

Best,

Richard

[Selarom]

Hey REShaman,

 

Did your upgraded DAC2 came with a new set of specs/ technical info? Like, SNR, THD+N, etc?

[REShaman]

Hey REShaman,

 

Did your upgraded DAC2 came with a new set of specs/ technical info? Like, SNR, THD+N, etc?

 

Selarom,

As you requested here are the set of specs/technical info. For the manual, go to W4S website and download.

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear ALL,

 

I thought I had opened the manual the came with my upgrade. Apparently, I had only read the downloaded manual which explains my reason for not opening the included manual shipped with my upgrade. Selarom's post motivated me to open the manual to retrieve the information he requested and in so doing I discovered the W4S disc of drivers for Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8 V3. I left this disc as included out in my review. Now I have taken care of this omission.

 

The rest of my free time is playing the Dac2SE to put hours on it. Sincerity is measured by time, I am fond of saying. This Dac2SE is very sincere.

 

Best,

Richard

[Bones13]

My newly upgraded (the whole upgrade, not just the USB board) DAC 2se has been breaking in over the weekend. I hope to have a listen later this afternoon. Fortunately BitPerfect was just fixed to work with the latest iTunes over the weekend as well.

[REShaman]

My newly upgraded (the whole upgrade, not just the USB board) DAC 2se has been breaking in over the weekend. I hope to have a listen later this afternoon. Fortunately BitPerfect was just fixed to work with the latest iTunes over the weekend as well.

 

Welcome and congratulations. Please let us know what you experience if you care to. It is always interesting to get as many perspective and perceptions about a component we are or could become interested in.

 

I am playing mine at this moment to put as many hours on the Dac2SE, which in my experience with the original Dac2 produced better sonics over time.

 

Best,

Richard

[cardiackid]

With regard to the I2S input for the Dac2SE, what specifically are users connecting to that input and what improvement and sound quality results?

 

Best,

Richard

 

I have been following this thread of and on. I also sent my DAC-2 for the full upgrade and I expect to see it returned in the near future. I am glad to see Richard resolved his issues, which may not have happened for me, since I also use the w4s usb cable. I changed from the kimber USB to this one because I was seeking more 3D sound, ambience, transparency, whatever it is that I enjoy from analog with my digital front end. The change of the USB cable and the power cord all improved the sound but not enough for me. After Steve Stone mentioned the CIA USB to I2S bridge improved the W4S DAC-2 sound, I purchased the bridge and the power unit a couple days later. It was revelatory, moving a 2D kind of sound more 3D, but I know there is more to gain.

 

I had been writing to Clint begging him to mod my Dac for 2 years on a custom basis, and when they issued the upgrade, I was all in. I think the analog improvement will be the key for me. I will compare the USB and the I2S bridge to see if there is a benefit from the I2S input, and I will try to let others know when I have an opinion. It may help someone to have the thoughts.

 

I am not a frequent poster, because time is limited for me both for listening (unfortunately) and surfing. Such is life these days for too many of us.

[REShaman]

I have been following this thread of and on. I also sent my DAC-2 for the full upgrade and I expect to see it returned in the near future. I am glad to see Richard resolved his issues, which may not have happened for me, since I also use the w4s usb cable. I changed from the kimber USB to this one because I was seeking more 3D sound, ambience, transparency, whatever it is that I enjoy from analog with my digital front end. The change of the USB cable and the power cord all improved the sound but not enough for me. After Steve Stone mentioned the CIA USB to I2S bridge improved the W4S DAC-2 sound, I purchased the bridge and the power unit a couple days later. It was revelatory, moving a 2D kind of sound more 3D, but I know there is more to gain.

 

I had been writing to Clint begging him to mod my Dac for 2 years on a custom basis, and when they issued the upgrade, I was all in. I think the analog improvement will be the key for me. I will compare the USB and the I2S bridge to see if there is a benefit from the I2S input, and I will try to let others know when I have an opinion. It may help someone to have the thoughts.

 

I am not a frequent poster, because time is limited for me both for listening (unfortunately) and surfing. Such is life these days for too many of us.

 

cardiackid,

Thank you for a glimpse into your past experience. I, too, had been contacting Clint over some time hoping for the result that finally manifested as the Dac2SE upgrade. And with your input I am learning more of what others have been improvising with to move in the direction of what the upgrade now delivers. I look forward to hearing from you once you receive and begin using your upgraded Dac2SE and find the time to assess the upgrade.

 

I wish I understood more about the I2S input vs the USB input. Regarding lower jitter and the enhanced electronics provided in the upgrade, I am confused as to whether or not with my new W4S USB cable connected which erased an awful start that I wish had never happened and is delivering excellent sonics what enables the lower jitter and thus improved sonics. is it that through the USB cable input with the upgrade the I2S board is accessed thereby providing the advantage of lower jitter without having to actually connect a HDMI I2S cable? That probably does not make sense. And I do not know what question to ask. I am trying to understand what the internal upgrades deliver that accounts for lower jitter and the obvious improved sonics that I am discerning. Asking it that way, do you know (or anyone else)? As I did not want to take up Clint's time with specifics about the upgrade when he was swamped with responsibilities. Any insights into what was done and how it delivers what I am appreciating sonically will be appreciated.

 

In any case, will be happy to hear from you and others as the upgrades are delivered and experience of the upgrades are shared. Hope you find the time and return with your input.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[Bones13]

Listened for a short while yesterday. Break in time about 75 hours. I plan to let it go for about 200. Already the sound is "sweeter", and I feel it goes a bit deeper in the bass department, or at least more controlled.

[JohnDonaldson]

... After Steve Stone mentioned the CIA USB to I2S bridge improved the W4S DAC-2 sound, I purchased the bridge and the power unit a couple days later. ...

 

Could someone please give me a link to this bridge? My searches have come up empty.

 

Thanks

[REShaman]

Listened for a short while yesterday. Break in time about 75 hours. I plan to let it go for about 200. Already the sound is "sweeter", and I feel it goes a bit deeper in the bass department, or at least more controlled.

 

That was my experience in substance also as I wrote in my review. I think we find our own adjectives to describe the listening experience of the SQ characteristics. For me the bass,drums and cymbals were processed into better focus, controlled as you said, which for me means better definition from blurred to the slap of LaFaro's bass strings on the fretboard as I previously wrote and the image in my mind's/eye of the Motian's drums and cymbals slightly behind and to the right of the bass and the cymbals decay lengthening no longer a blurred sizzle, brushes against the skins, house right Evans at the piano. I thought I detected pedals used or not used. Or was I imagining it? No matter, Evans' piano, vibrato, tone was realistic and I have never heard him sound better. No reason to exaggerate. Just my experience. I am taking my time getting to multiple 100s of hours, able to enjoy what I am listening to and when I notice something different that too is fascinating.

 

Thank you for your update.

 

Best,

Richard

[elcorso]

Could someone please give me a link to this bridge? My searches have come up empty.

 

Thanks

 

CIAUDIO : Transient MKII - Asynchronous USB Converter

 

This one is from the CIA, I don't know of something similar from the FBI

 

Roch

[lfs]

JohnDonaldson,

 

I think the bridge mentioned is the 'Channel Islands Audio - Transient MkII DAC.'

 

Four DACs from $699 to $3600 | The Absolute Sound

 

Larry

[cardiackid]

Could someone please give me a link to this bridge? My searches have come up empty.

 

Thanks

 

Contact Dusty Vawter: CIAudio <[email protected]>.

 

Also, the HDMI cable can make a difference, since most are weighted toward video. I spoke with the Cable Company after researching the subject and together we chose the Harmonic Technology at that time. I will say there may be others that are as good or better now, so consider talking to someone with experience for the best price to performance ratio.

 

Good listening.

[emailtim]

... I wish I understood more about the I2S input vs the USB input. Regarding lower jitter and the enhanced electronics provided in the upgrade, ... is it that through the USB cable input with the upgrade the I2S board is accessed thereby providing the advantage of lower jitter without having to actually connect a HDMI I2S cable? .... do you know (or anyone else)? ...

 

Hi Richard,

 

As I understand it (maybe wrong), the USB interface feeds into the I2S interface without having to use the I2S/HDMI port. The USB interface is now galvonically isolated from the DAC2-SE such that neither the PC's power or ground from the USB cable is introduced into the DAC2-SE. The new USB interface requires both the power and ground from the PC to work, but they are kept separate from the DAC2-SE's power/ground. This should eliminate the need for converters like the iUSB power which isolates the PC power from the DAC.

 

It is somewhat analogous to an opto-isolator in a TOSLINK connection. You need power and ground to turn electrical data signals into light data signals, but the power and ground does not travel down the light data path (fiber optic cable). On the other side of the connection, you need another source of power and ground to turn the light data signal back into a electrical signal. The power and grounds on each side of the data interface need not be the same, thus isolating the 2 components. This was just an analogy. I am sure the DAC2-SE's isolated USB interface is not using a TOSLINK connection =).

 

HTH,

Tim

 

Brief description of I2S:

I²S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[REShaman]

Hi Richard,

 

As I understand it (maybe wrong), the USB interface feeds into the I2S interface without having to use the I2S/HDMI port. The USB interface is now galvonically isolated from the DAC2-SE such that neither the PC's power or ground from the USB cable is introduced into the DAC2-SE. The new USB interface requires both the power and ground from the PC to work, but they are kept separate from the DAC2-SE's power/ground. This should eliminate the need for converters like the iUSB power which isolates the PC power from the DAC.

 

It is somewhat analogous to an opto-isolator in a TOSLINK connection. You need power and ground to turn electrical data signals into light data signals, but the power and ground does not travel down the light data path (fiber optic cable). On the other side of the connection, you need another source of power and ground to turn the light data signal back into a electrical signal. The power and grounds on each side of the data interface need not be the same, thus isolating the 2 components. This was just an analogy. I am sure the DAC2-SE's isolated USB interface is not using a TOSLINK connection =).

 

HTH,

Tim

 

Brief description of I2S:

I²S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Tim,

 

The substance/gravamen of what you said I had hoped for but wasn't sure: The part about the USB interface feeds into the I2S interface without having to use the I2S/HDMI port. That fact alone and other inducements made the upgrade for me a welcome and desirable choice. Prior conversations with Clint before the upgrade became a reality saved me from seeking externally what has been addressed with this extensive upgrade.

 

The rest of the information you supplied I can take in and learn from. You stated so clearly and succinctly and I am so very appreciative of your explanation. I am sure your explanation will answer questions from others previously alluded to or inquiries in the near future.

I just downloaded Damien's latest update, loaded up all the free DSD 128 files I downloaded from 2L set Audirvana Plus, Playlist mode, mode 1, DSD 64/128, repeat and have been playing the Dac2SE since early morning.

 

The clarity I noticed immediately after the upgrade is obviously a gain from the USB interface feeding into the I2S interface and the bloom or richness and presence is apparent. Whatever the technical innovations for the upgrade are that I am not knowledgeable about, I can discern the improvement in SQ and the rewards from the upgrade.

 

Perfecto!

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[dan92075]

You guys inspired me: Shipped out my DAC2 today for the upgrade!

 

When it returns I will post comparisons of the upgrade using my Sonore USB->i2S convertor (same configuration as I was using previously), and then I will switch over to USB directly into DAC2 versus the latter as well.

 

Depending on the results I may or may not have a USB->I2S convertor available for sale

 

Cheers, Dan

[REShaman]

You guys inspired me: Shipped out my DAC2 today for the upgrade!

 

When it returns I will post comparisons of the upgrade using my Sonore USB->i2S convertor (same configuration as I was using previously), and then I will switch over to USB directly into DAC2 versus the latter as well.

 

Depending on the results I may or may not have a USB->I2S convertor available for sale

 

Cheers, Dan

 

Dan,

 

I am excited for you. Mainly from sharing and exchanging good music selections and artists, and, of course, the experiences which involve us in the pursuit of excellence in rendering the quality of SQ that connects us to that enjoyment.

 

Please let us know what you decide when your upgrade returns and you have had time to assess the outcome. Inspiration builds bridges to highly-desired outcomes, and commitment is the toll we pay to cross that bridge. You have E-ZPass, right! ;>}

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[emailtim]

...

Depending on the results I may or may not have a USB->I2S convertor available for sale

...

 

Keep us posted. If it does go up for sale, it will just about pay for the upgrade !!! You will even have an extra HDMI cable.

[Toddc2]

You guys inspired me: Shipped out my DAC2 today for the upgrade!

 

 

Shipping my DAC2 out today! I am a little bummed about losing my Empirical Short Block capability, but I believe the SE upgrade is the right path due to the better analog chain and DSD capability. My Short Block does have the custom +5V umbilical from Steve, so there is a chance that it will work with the DAC2-SE. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Todd

[REShaman]

Shipping my DAC2 out today! I am a little bummed about losing my Empirical Short Block capability, but I believe the SE upgrade is the right path due to the better analog chain and DSD capability. My Short Block does have the custom +5V umbilical from Steve, so there is a chance that it will work with the DAC2-SE. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Todd

 

Todd,

Good news about the upgrade. I believe you will be very happy with the result. Please do let us know. BTW: What is important to you about being keeping your Empirical Short Block in the chain after the upgrade. Inquiring minds want to know. ;>}

 

Best,

Richard

[Toddc2]

Todd,

Good news about the upgrade. I believe you will be very happy with the result. Please do let us know. BTW: What is important to you about being keeping your Empirical Short Block in the chain after the upgrade. Inquiring minds want to know. ;>}

 

Best,

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

 

The Short Block made a significant improvement to the sound-stage of my system (height and width) plus it added over-all 3D presentation of the instruments. It also made acoustic strings sound crystal clear and creepy realistic. I love the impact this filter had on my system and really don't want to lose it.

 

Todd

[REShaman]

Hi Richard,

 

The Short Block made a significant improvement to the sound-stage of my system (height and width) plus it added over-all 3D presentation of the instruments. It also made acoustic strings sound crystal clear and creepy realistic. I love the impact this filter had on my system and really don't want to lose it.

 

Todd

 

Ah, Todd, the way you describe the Short Block's effects on your system makes it sound highly desirable. Understand your reasons now. Adds even more interest to receive your assessment of the upgrade minus the Short Block; and, if possible, with the Short Block back in the chain after the upgrade.

 

Look forward to your experiences after the upgrade. In my experience as with the original W4S Dac2 the SQ changes over time and depending on the quality of the recording(s), it's great, it's good, Huh? It's great. Wow?...the Dac2SE for me changes over time but as with the original which eventually settled down to my enjoyment with it overall.

 

Let us know when you are ready.

 

Best,

Richard