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Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!


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  • 3 months later...

Can anyone share their experiences on how the different Jitter Eliminator settings influences the sound of their system?    I have been experimenting and find that Maximum produces a more mellow -- perhaps even less fatiguing sound.  But I want to hear back to see what other owners of the DAC2 DSD-SE V2 feel about it.    I am wondering what is happening to the signal to actually change the sound quality, save for reducing jitter.   I would expect jitter to already be low on the USB interface, for which I use.

 

Also, as much as I like the Apodizing filter naturalness --- it is not nearly as open/spacious and detailed sounding as the SLOW filters.   The minimum phase filters are unlistenable to me, bright and unnatural/digital sounding.    It would be nice to have a SLOW roll-off Apodizing filter...combining the best of both worlds.   But in looking at the frequency response of the filter in the docs, there is too much ultra-high frequency noise that has to be suppressed to pull off a SLOW-rolloff filtering using the built-in filters (just my speculation why it is not available from ESS).

 

Appreciate everyone's experience, who own the DSD-SE V2 version.     

 

Thanks

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Hi from France,

I received my Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse upgraded to DAC-2 v2se 2 weeks ago.

Break-in period is not yet finished but I can already say that SQ has improved a lot compared to DSDse version.

For the moment functioning time is about 150 hours. I wonder what the result will be at the end of the break-in period.

 

At this point concerning Jitter Eliminator and filters I really like the Apodizing filter and "lowest" for Jitter Eliminator.

But I will investigate this when break-in period will be finished.

 

Another point, I'm using this DAC on a computer as Roonbridge endpoint on a minimal install of fedora 27.

According  lintweaker xmos-native-dsd I thought that DAC-2 v2se allowed native DSD playback with Linux with an appropriate compiled kernel with appropriate patches.

But unfortunately native DSD playback doesn't work and I still have to use DoP..

I've tried other distributions such as DietPi which is supposed to offer native DSD playback with DAC--2 v2se  but no native DSD playback too. :(

 

Apparently the patch which enable native DSD playback with W4S DAC2-v2se seems to wait for a DAC with USB_ID(0x27f7, 0x3002) and mine is 0x27f7, 0x1301. Would that mean some v2Se are ready for native DSD playback with the proper Kernel and others not?

So I'm a little disappointed about this.

 

Here is the link to a message posted by Wyred 4 sound in May 26th, 2017:

IIs there some news about this?

 

Many thanks a lot in advance for any information.

 

Dom.

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Hi Dom:

 

I worked around the limitations by adding a Sonore ultraDigital. It now lets me use the better I2S input, DSD256 and native DSD as well. A really nice improvement, as I had been frustrated by the Linux limitations as well. Just something to consider.

 

Bob

Bob

 

Mac Mini M1 12 volt dc > Roon > HQ Player to DSD 256 > Fibre to EtherRegen w/LPS1.2 and BG7TBL OCXO > Sonore microRendu v1.3 > IsoRegen > Denafrips Iris > i2s  > Denafrips Pontus II > Schiit Freya+ w/ Linlai E-6SN7's >  Nord One Up NCore 500 monoblocks REV D w/SI990Enh op amps > Martin Logan Impression 11A w/ dual Rythmik E15HP2 subs. Supra Cat8, JPS Labs Superconductor+ cables

 

 

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Many thanks for your reply Bob,

 

as i'm living in France I'm not sure that the Sonore ultraDigital is available in my country.

I'm afraid I'll have to order it from USA at Sonore Webshop and have to pay high customs duties.

 

At this time I'm using a SOtM tX-USBexp PCIe card + sCLK-48 clock in my Roonbridge PC.

I wonder if the Sonore ultraDigital provides a better SQ if we except native DSD problems than my SOtM combo.

 

Dom.

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Hi Dom:

 

An alternative to the ultraDigital is the Singxer SU-1 which may be more available to you. I only know I can highly recommend the improvement I got going from usb/DOP/DSD128 to I2S/native/DSD256. Either of these solutions would be an add-on down stream from your excellent SOtM gear, so would probably be an improvement. Only way to know is for you to try one of them out.

 

Bob

Bob

 

Mac Mini M1 12 volt dc > Roon > HQ Player to DSD 256 > Fibre to EtherRegen w/LPS1.2 and BG7TBL OCXO > Sonore microRendu v1.3 > IsoRegen > Denafrips Iris > i2s  > Denafrips Pontus II > Schiit Freya+ w/ Linlai E-6SN7's >  Nord One Up NCore 500 monoblocks REV D w/SI990Enh op amps > Martin Logan Impression 11A w/ dual Rythmik E15HP2 subs. Supra Cat8, JPS Labs Superconductor+ cables

 

 

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15 minutes ago, rah50 said:

Hi Dom:

 

An alternative to the ultraDigital is the Singxer SU-1 which may be more available to you. I only know I can highly recommend the improvement I got going from usb/DOP/DSD128 to I2S/native/DSD256. Either of these solutions would be an add-on down stream from your excellent SOtM gear, so would probably be an improvement. Only way to know is for you to try one of them out.

 

Bob

Unless Singxer has added a capacitor to their i2S output, it isn't compatible with the W4S DAC. I have one, I know from experience. 

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9 minutes ago, ksalno said:

Unless Singxer has added a capacitor to their i2S output, it isn't compatible with the W4S DAC. I have one, I know from experience. 

Yes, that's what I've read on different forums.

 

There is the MATRIX X-SPDIF 2 Interface USB 32bit/768khz Coaxial-AES/EBU I2S HDMI LVDS too but I'm not sure it is 100% compatible with W4S DAC-2 (DSD playback out of phase or something like that).

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Thanks for the info ksalno.

 

Ok for the AudioByte HydraZ but it is not the same price.. :(

I think that for the moment I will do with DoP.

 

Concerning the Sonore ultraDigital which appears to be the best competitor for me, I've read that it is only for use with Sonore microRendu, ultraRendu, and Signature Rendu SE only on the topic dedicated to this device. So, it is not sure that it works with my fedora 27 light distribution in particular concerning native DSD playback.  

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I have no experience with the Linux endpoint you are using but I can tell you that the Sonare UltraDigital works fine with USB fed from SoTM 200Ultra endpoint and feeding a PS Audio DS DAC via i2S. So, whoever said it was designed only to work with Sonore products clearly is wrong.

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In fact this is what we can read on Sonore website and Sonore ultraDigital topic on this forum.

I suppose it's because Sonore team has build this device especially for their products and they can only certify it works with them.

Support for other kind of Linux distribution cannot be provided by Sonore team.

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Supported by Sonore or not, I can tell you it works. I have this exact configuration in my home. I have no idea whether SoTM uses a Linux distribution or not, but I suppose they do, since their devices do not require any type of driver install for USB. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just got a chance to listen to MQA. iFi issued a firmware upgrade for its products that decodes it. I compared MQA to a 96 khzflac downloaded from the 2L test bench. I wanted to see if it was worth the fuss.

 
 
I used a Fiio x5ii digital coax output transported to the iFi idsd micro playing to Shure SHR1540 headphones. This is a very revealing portable system. I must say I was impressed. The MQA beat the 96k flac at half its files size. Although definition was very similar in both files, the place where MQA was so good was soundstaging and imaging. Bigger sound with instruments clearly placed better. I know it is a bit of a controversial format, but my first listening impression gives it a thumbs up.
cleardot.gifMy question for Wyred 4 Sound: Are there any plans of developing firmware for decoding MQA? I've invested in the V2 upgrade and it sounds great. This firmware would further justify the expense and increase the value of my DAC2V2 DSDse.
 
That brings the further question: Is it possible to do firmware updates on the DAC2 without sending it to W4S?
 

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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This thread appears to be no longer monitored regularly by W4S.

 

I think I remember reading somewhere that the W4S DACs can not be firmware updated by the user via usb. That's a shame as most modern DACs can get firmware updates that way. That means that a firmware update for MQA would be a difficult undertaking involving shipping your DAC to W4S. It also is a reason why it was difficult for them to offer a solution  to the i2s compatibility issue with the SU-1.

 

The W4S i2s protocol and pinout were supposed to be the same as PS Audio, but we found that was not true. Leter at Singxer can sell you an SU-1 at regular price with the capacitor modification and software that fixes the both of the issues. Leter and Minorisuke were very helpful in this endeavor.

You can read the contentious development of the i2s solution here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31500-i2s-compatibility-issue-between-w4s-dac2-singxer-su-1-two-beatiful-pieces-of-hi-end-products/

 They sound great together............no doubt about it. I can recommend that you contact Leter and get an SU-1 if you want to get the best sound from your W4S DAC.

[email protected] 

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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On 4/8/2018 at 5:17 PM, Franatic said:

This thread appears to be no longer monitored regularly by W4S.

 

I think I remember reading somewhere that the W4S DACs can not be firmware updated by the user via usb. That's a shame as most modern DACs can get firmware updates that way. That means that a firmware update for MQA would be a difficult undertaking involving shipping your DAC to W4S. It also is a reason why it was difficult for them to offer a solution  to the i2s compatibility issue with the SU-1.

 

The W4S i2s protocol and pinout were supposed to be the same as PS Audio, but we found that was not true. Leter at Singxer can sell you an SU-1 at regular price with the capacitor modification and software that fixes the both of the issues. Leter and Minorisuke were very helpful in this endeavor.

You can read the contentious development of the i2s solution here:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31500-i2s-compatibility-issue-between-w4s-dac2-singxer-su-1-two-beatiful-pieces-of-hi-end-products/

 They sound great together............no doubt about it. I can recommend that you contact Leter and get an SU-1 if you want to get the best sound from your W4S DAC.

[email protected] 

Correct that we don't closely monitor this thread but please note the following:

 

DAC upgrades for MQA will require more than a firmware update  - it will also require hardware unless it can be implemented in the USB interface itself and at that time, that can be USB updated but not the front panel firmware of the DAC.

 

We originally designed the I2S for our DAC to be used with our own music servers and modded components we offered at the time. It also was compatible with PS audio before DSD was implemented where the lines are now multiplexed for DSD and cause the phase issue as noted before.

 

We can only do so much to make sure our unit works well with gear others design after the release of ours but once we heard about this - with your help - we were eager to learn about what we could to to make it work and did. In the near future, we will release such product in our line to properly work with our gear right out of the box.

 

Thank you

EJ

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  • 6 months later...

I've got I don't know how many more hours on my DAC2v2SE since the upgrade. I do know about two weeks ago to my ears the DAC improved even more. Why I have no clue but there it is. More break-in caused it?

Furutech GTX-D, GTX Wall Plate,106-D Cover > NCF Clearline >Custom Computer>J River [Current] > Curious Cable Evolved USB > Chord Hugo MScaler > WAVE Storm Dual BNC> Chord DAVE>DCA Stealth>my ears > audiophile brain

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