mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=artistdetail&id=10279 Yeah! "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
Kpfeifle Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=artistdetail&id=10279 Yeah! Thinking of getting this but they list absolutely nothing about how it was mastered. Since I already own the LP and CD....it will have to be a significant upgrade for me to jump on this! Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Thinking of getting this but they list absolutely nothing about how it was mastered. Since I already own the LP and CD....it will have to be a significant upgrade for me to jump on this! I have the original CD release. I am hoping maybe this was derived from the DVD-Audio mastering of a few years back which I enjoyed. I believe that is where several of the WB releases on HD Tracks were derived (Carly Simon, Donald Fagen?) This is too big of an all time favorite for me to not take a chance on it. I will be downloading it shortly. I have only used Audacity a couple of times so I am not very good at that but I can use the DR meter and my ears to compare. "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
firedog Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Both WMD and Paul Simon "Live in NY City" available with 15% discount using code "15sneak"; but like others, I'd like to know how good it sounds before I buy another copy. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
drofgnal Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I may have to jump on this one. Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 No comment on sound quality yet just a comparison of the DR ratings. First is the original CD release and then the HD Tracks download "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
Garf Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Compressed, and by quite a bit. I won't be buying it on the dynamic range plots alone. Roon Rock running on a Gen 7 i5, Akasa Plao X7 fanless case. Schiit Lyr 2, Schiit Bifrost upgraded with Uber Analog and USB Gen 2, Grado RS1s, ADAM A3x Nearfield Monitors. Link to comment
firedog Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Interesting. Offhand, I usually find compression to DR9 acceptable. But it's one thing to compress a DR11 tune to DR9, and quite another to compress a DR14 tune to DR9. Sort of discouraging. I wouldn't rule this one out just based on the compression, but I'd have to hear reports that it really sounds fantastic to go for it. It's really a shame the record companies don't usually do hi-res remasters without added compression, i.e., audiophile versions. The only time I've seen this done are the Apple hi-res remasters of the solo Beatle albums. Those are offered in limited (added compression) and unlimited (no added compression) versions. So you have a choice. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Being cautious after just a few songs listening and comparing, and knowing that these are not level matched and that I am aware what is playing, I do like the sound of the download. I hear additional punch on the bottom end and a little more detail and space overall. I wouldn't comment at all this early if I didn't know this album so well. With regards to the DR differences in the masterings I do not now find a negative. Really compressed stuff sounds to me like the music is being played inside a very defined box of certain dimensions with little variance in overall sound. I do not hear or have that same sense with this mastering. "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
ericuco Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 My WMD CD (Warner Brothers R2 74396) is HDCD (20/44.1). If you rip it with dBpoweramp and use the HDCD DSP option, it will rip as 24/44.1. It is my understanding from HDCD list that all (many) of Grateful Dead CD's from Rhino/Warner Brothers are in HDCD format. Same is true for many of the Jerry Garcia and David Grisman CD's. Point being is that you might want to see if you can't better SQ from an existing CD before spending more $$ on a new purchase from HD Tracks. Eric Audio System Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 It's from the DVD-Audio master, not a faux HDCD thing. I own the DVD_Audio and it sounds identical. You should hear the multichannel mix...way cool and way different mix (with different lyrics/vocals/instrumentation. Some songs are vastly changed). Great job by Mickey Hart. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The DVD 2-channel is quite good (see separate thread in the objective/analysis forum). It is a remix from the original, and a significant improvement in my estimation. If HDtracks hasn't degraded it, it would be well worth buying. It is my favorite studio Dead album. Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 My WMD CD (Warner Brothers R2 74396) is HDCD (20/44.1). If you rip it with dBpoweramp and use the HDCD DSP option, it will rip as 24/44.1. It is my understanding from HDCD list that all (many) of Grateful Dead CD's from Rhino/Warner Brothers are in HDCD format. Same is true for many of the Jerry Garcia and David Grisman CD's. Point being is that you might want to see if you can't better SQ from an existing CD before spending more $$ on a new purchase from HD Tracks. I have owned the HDCD versions and distinctly did not care for them. They were more compressed then any other version "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
Jud Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I just can't do this one, based on the compression. Too much chance (sorry, guys) that what sounds "good" is simply louder. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 I just can't do this one, based on the compression. Too much chance (sorry, guys) that what sounds "good" is simply louder. And you base that determination on what? I am wwell aware of how overally compressed albums sound like. Just because it has a DR9 instead of DR12 or sething doesn't in and of it sound loud. Less dynamic range may make it play louder but that does not necessarily mean it sounds bad. I have not said that with absolute certainty that this is better but there are apparent differences in the mastering and some which iI like. The DR is a reference tool and not a definition of what does or does not sound good. That doesn't mean I don't have problems with new albums where I like the music but find them difficult to listen to. Heck the people who developed this tool use DR8 as a suggested point between albums that are excessively loud. You have every right to make your own determination regarding quality but to make a statement about what someone else is hearing when you have not even listened or compared is pretty ballsy. "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I just can't do this one, based on the compression. Too much chance (sorry, guys) that what sounds "good" is simply louder. If it is the same as the DVD, you should buy it. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f14-music-analysis-objective-and-subjective/working-man-s-dead-dvd-grateful-dead-9377/ Link to comment
Jud Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You have every right to make your own determination regarding quality but to make a statement about what someone else is hearing when you have not even listened or compared is pretty ballsy. Yeah, I admit it. :-) I *have* enjoyed the sound of CDs with limited dynamic range (e.g., Springsteen's Wrecking Ball). But when I have previous recordings and am looking forward to better sound from a high resolution download (Hotel California; Nevermind), I've invariably been disappointed before by the sound of downloads that turn out to have less dynamic range than the original recording. Nor is being sourced from a good DVD-Audio recording a guarantee. See, for example, DR Database re the dynamic range of the Hotel California download vs. the DVD-Audio recording of the same date. I've had the LPs of Workingman's and American Beauty forever. I would love truly great higher-res recordings of each. But it just doesn't seem to me that this download is quite it (admittedly from only one data point, the dynamic range - but there's a significant dynamic range reduction, and that type of reduction has previously been a reliable indicator of disappointment for me). One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Rupret Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I bought the download and also have the CD. The download sounds pretty good to me ... There's even a pronounced snort at the beginning of "Casey Jones". Cracks me up ... I guess someone had a cold that day. Link to comment
mwheelerk Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yeah, I admit it. :-) I *have* enjoyed the sound of CDs with limited dynamic range (e.g., Springsteen's Wrecking Ball). But when I have previous recordings and am looking forward to better sound from a high resolution download (Hotel California; Nevermind), I've invariably been disappointed before by the sound of downloads that turn out to have less dynamic range than the original recording. Nor is being sourced from a good DVD-Audio recording a guarantee. See, for example, DR Database re the dynamic range of the Hotel California download vs. the DVD-Audio recording of the same date. I've had the LPs of Workingman's and American Beauty forever. I would love truly great higher-res recordings of each. But it just doesn't seem to me that this download is quite it (admittedly from only one data point, the dynamic range - but there's a significant dynamic range reduction, and that type of reduction has previously been a reliable indicator of disappointment for me). First, I think I came off a little strong in my reply so my apology. I also have owned and known these albums since their original release dates either as vinyl, CD or the DVD Audio. As I mentioned in my post I did not have these volume matched. I tried listening a little further balancing the sound the best I could and my initial impression of a little more punch and detail remains. I am not trying to convince everyone that there is a night and day difference between this and the original CD release which is what I have but I would claim they are both significantly better than the HDCD remasters which I felt were crunched. Anyways I feel this was worth my money, not all 24/96 downloads from HD Tracks have been. My general rule of thumb is if I have an audiophile mastering from certain companies and people I have come to trust I don't even bother with the hi res download. If I have an original CD release version that I like (as in this case) I might consider it for a very favorite album. And, if I have remasters which typically are not my favorites (as only a general statement) I probably will investigate the hi res download. "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I bought the download and also have the CD. The download sounds pretty good to me ... There's even a pronounced snort at the beginning of "Casey Jones". Cracks me up ... I guess someone had a cold that day. or was actually doing what Casey Jones was said to be snorting. Link to comment
bottlerocket Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 It is a toss up between this and American Beauty on my favorite studio album. Here is my boat. Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Oh yeah, well look at this: Link to comment
JazzDoc Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I have 24/96 rips from my DVD-A discs running through my DAC. They both sound really good. I also recall that 'American Beauty' is good in surround although I haven't played surround music for a long time Link to comment
Jud Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Oh yeah, well look at this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]2025[/ATTACH] 600 pounds of sin Sittin' outside my window All I said was "Come on in." :-) One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
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