How do you amplify?

[DigiPete]

How do you amplify your main or front speakers?

 

- Active speakers (amps build into speakers) or passive speakers (separate amps)

- Mono (one amp pr speaker/stereo amp pr two speakers) or bi/tri/quad-amp

- Dac build into amp or separate?

[Julf]

How do you classify a 4-way amp in a separate box under the speaker box, driven by a separate digital crossover?

[DigiPete]

How do you classify a 4-way amp in a separate box under the speaker box, driven by a separate digital crossover?

 

I would regard it as "Active, Bi/tri/quad-amp, DAC separate"

 

Ultra short speaker cables should qualify as Active IMHO.

[sandyk]

Passive - dual mono construction Class A preamp, dual mono construction Class A P.A, separate DAC.

[Julf]

I would regard it as "Active, Bi/tri/quad-amp, DAC separate"

 

Ultra short speaker cables should qualify as Active IMHO.

 

Well, I went for the "Active, Bi/tri/quad-amp, DAC separate" choice. I have2 feet / 60 cm

custom multipole speakon-plug equipped cables.

[Audio_ELF]

Technically speaking you can't have Active Mono-amped.

 

To be "Active" you need a line level cross over and multiple power amplifiers one for each driver or group of drivers. The length of the speaker cable is pretty irrelevant too - Naim's active speaker system (separate crossover box and poweramps) recommends 3.5m of speaker cable. I belive you are refering to powered speakers with a passive crossover.

 

While I'm at it - your option "Mono amp" could be a little confusing as Mono-amp would normally refer to a mono-block amp (as opposed to stereo amp) - shouldn't it be "single amp" vs "bi/tri/quad" amped.

 

So I see it the options should be (each with and without built in DAC)...

Single amped

Passive bi/tri/quad amped

Powered passive speakers (i.e. AudioEngine)

Active speakers (either powered or with remote amplification)

 

Not sure if you can alter the option on a poll after the fact.

 

It would be interesting (though maybe a separate issue) with the Active systems if they use an analogue cross-over system (Naim, Linn, ATC, etc) or a DSP based system (Meridian, some Genelec and I'm sure others). I know of at least one active system - AVi ADM9 - that (IIRC) has a built in DAC but then uses an analogue cross-over before multiple power amps.

 

Eloise

 

PS. I could be just being difficult here and making things more complicated than are needed...

[sshd]

Ultra short speaker cables should qualify as Active IMHO.

 

Silly!

 

A passive speaker has a passive crossover.

An active speaker has an active crossover.

 

Should my tri-amped active speakers with external dac go under the passive category just because they got 10 meters of speaker cable?

 

Nah

[DigiPete]

Silly!

 

A passive speaker has a passive crossover.

An active speaker has an active crossover.

 

Should my tri-amped active speakers with external dac go under the passive category just because they got 10 meters of speaker cable?

 

Nah

 

 

sshd, your system should qualify as "Active, Bi/tri/quad-amp, DAC separate" in this poll.

Your speaker cables are internal and very short, the signal cables to them are the ones that are 10m.

 

Yes I should know better than to try and categorize systems into 8 little boxes in a creative crowd like CA, but we only get a max. of 10.

[REShaman]

How do you amplify your main or front speakers?

 

- Active speakers (amps build into speakers) or passive speakers (separate amps)

- Mono (one amp pr speaker/stereo amp pr two speakers) or bi/tri/quad-amp

- Dac build into amp or separate?

 

DigiPete, haven't polled yet. What would I check? Separate dac, preamp, 2X D amp mono block, active electronic crossover to mains, powered subwoofer X2.

Best,

Richard

[DigiPete]

Technically speaking you can't have Active Mono-amped.

 

Yes you can:

 

Avantone Active MixCube Powered Full-Range Mini Reference Monitors

 

Grin ;-)

[DigiPete]

DigiPete, haven't polled yet. What would I check? Separate dac, preamp, 2X D amp mono block, active electronic crossover to mains, powered subwoofer X2.

Best,

Richard

 

You are in the "Bi/tri/quad-amp" class if your X-over feeds two or more amps pr. speaker (say 4 mono blocks or 2 x stereo amps or a 4 channel amp in your system or more)

You are in the "active" class if amps are build into speakers or situated just next to with ultra short speaker cables.

[REShaman]

You are in the "Bi/tri/quad-amp" class if your X-over feeds two or more amps pr. speaker (say 4 mono blocks or 2 x stereo amps or a 4 channel amp in your system or more)

You are in the "active" class if amps are build into speakers or situated just next to with ultra short speaker cables.

 

Thank you. Your Poll, I'll use your guidance. Best,

Richard

[mwheelerk]

I think I voted correctly. I voted "Active Mono Amp, DAC Separate" but in actuality there two mono amps per speaker..

 

The connections are power cables to the power conditioner and analog interconnects to the DAC

[REShaman]

Thank you. Your Poll, I'll use your guidance. Best,

Richard

 

Great Scott! I polled incorrectly. But I blame DigiPete : ). Given what I provided as my system, but based on the advice, I may have checked the wrong box. I also noticed I misinformed DigiPete. I erroneously wrote that my active electronic crossover to main. Should have written to the two D amp (mono blocks) and to the subwoofer. My error. Haste makes wrong polling results. Sorry if the mistake is a mistake.

Best,

Richard

[Audio_ELF]

Erm... how do I respond where I have the DAC built into pre-amp/processor and separate single-amped power amp? I think I know but there we go.

 

Eloise

 

PS... in reply to DigiPete's comment

Your speaker cables are internal and very short, the signal cables to them are the ones that are 10m.

Actually you CAN have long speaker cables in an active speaker system - the power amps can be located with the source and pre-amp just as easily as being next to, or part of the speaker itself. As I say the defining characteristic of an Active Speaker system is that it has an active cross-over; this can be part of the speaker, part of the amplifier or a separate box. I'm not sure you can have a truly active system (only a powered system) with a single driver speaker as there IS no crossover in such a system.

[sshd]

Actually you CAN have long speaker cables in an active speaker system - the power amps can be located with the source and pre-amp just as easily as being next to, or part of the speaker itself. As I say the defining characteristic of an Active Speaker system is that it has an active cross-over; this can be part of the speaker, part of the amplifier or a separate box. I'm not sure you can have a truly active system (only a powered system) with a single driver speaker as there IS no crossover in such a system.

 

Exactly

 

My power amps are located 10m away. Speaker wire run from the amps directly to the drivers.

 

And... there is actually no inside my speakers - they are open baffle...

[spdif-usb]

Single stereo amp passive; solid state & bi-wired. DAC separate; no preamp & no volume control in hardware at all.

[jamesg11]

You are in the "Bi/tri/quad-amp" class if your X-over feeds two or more amps pr. speaker (say 4 mono blocks or 2 x stereo amps or a 4 channel amp in your system or more)

You are in the "active" class if amps are build into speakers or situated just next to with ultra short speaker cables.

 

Hmmm, .... I've got an analogue active inside a passive pre + 2x 2x mono powers with 1m biwire speaker cables + non passive filter speakers. Category?

[DigiPete]

Hmmm, .... I've got an analogue active inside a passive pre + 2x 2x mono powers with 1m biwire speaker cables + non passive filter speakers. Category?

 

Active, Bi/tri/quad-amp, DAC separate . . if you are feeding the pre with a separate DAC

[AudioDoctor]

I amplify with an all tube integrated at a whopping 40 watts that sounds glorious.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Pete - what about those of us with stereo amps?

[DigiPete]

Pete - what about those of us with stereo amps?

 

I probably should have explained it like this:

 

How does the signal flow from source to your main or front speakers?

 

- Active speakers (short or non-existing speaker cables) or

- passive speakers (long speaker cables)

Speaker cable is the cable that connects the power amplifier to the speaker drivers whether it's through X-overs or not.

 

 

- Mono (passive X-overs after power amp) or

- bi/tri/quad-amp (X-overs splits the signal in one or more streams before before power amps)

 

- Dac build into amp or

- separate standalone DAC

 

 

Chris - Your answer depends on how the stereo power amp is used.

 

- It's "Mono" if you have passive X-overs after power amp (and most likely use one channel from your stereo power amp for the right speaker and one for the left).

- It's "bi/tri/quad-amp" if you have some type of X-over to split the signal and then amplify each part of the signal separately and feed it to different drivers of that channel. You could use say 2 mono blocks to drive one speaker or one stereo power amp.

 

The real mess here is language and our different perceptions. Example:

 

Active verses passive X-overs.

Most of us will use "passive" about X-overs between power amp and speaker.

Active is then X-overs placed between source and power amps, implying some sort of bi/tri/quad-amp

However, X-overs placed between source and power amps may be passive, i.e. have no active amplification.

Analogue X-overs waste a lot of the signal no matter where they are placed, and it is common to compensate for that by including a little amplification in the X-over.

So what does that make a multichannel DAC with DSP that functions as a X-over?

A lot of designs includes X-overs both before and after the power amp, what are they then?

 

Was that more clear, Probably not.

 

 

Chris, if you have a classic setup: stereo DAC feeding a stereo amp feeding two speakers I would put it in:

Passive, Mono, DAC separate

[Audio_ELF]

Pete ... I think you're making the whole situation even messier...

 

The length of speaker cables is irrelevant - as I say you can have an active system with 5m+ length speaker cables (e.g. Naim and Linn).

 

The active vs. passive question is simplest addressed by - "do you have a crossover before your power amplifiers, or do the power amplifiers have a full range input?" The crossover can be analogue or digital. In my experience, a crossover placed between a pre-amp (or direct output of a DAC or for that matter output of a mixing desk in professional environments) and the power amplifier is always referred to as an active crossover. I'm not sure I agree with your statement though maybe I'm reading it in the wrong context - "Analogue X-overs waste a lot of the signal no matter where they are placed, and it is common to compensate for that by including a little amplification in the X-over."

 

To my mind you are combining several A/B option questions...

1) Do you use a separate DAC, or is it part of another component (built into pre or integrated amp or part of the speaker itself)?

2) Is your power amp a separate unit, or part of the speakers?

3) Does your system use a single power amp, multiple power amps?

4) Do you use an active crossover (either separate or built into speakers) or rely on a passive crossover built into the speaker?

 

Eloise

[Sam Lord]

Pete ... I think you're making the whole situation even messier...

 

I'm not sure I agree with your statement though maybe I'm reading it in the wrong context - "Analogue X-overs waste a lot of the signal no matter where they are placed, and it is common to compensate for that by including a little amplification in the X-over."

 

Eloise

Yeah, passive line level xovers use about zero juice. But an active xover means active devices in the circuit...still low dissipation of course.

Cheers

[DigiPete]

Yeah, passive line level xovers use about zero juice. But an active xover means active devices in the circuit...still low dissipation of course.Cheers

 

Sorry Sam, but there is a significant voltage drop on passive X-overs, that is why they are made active = amplification added to make up for the loss.

It is however only practical to do that at line level.