DAC Review: AMR DP-777 (Listening + Dual DACs)

[DM]

(Disclaimer: Again this is my experience in my system, YMMV.)

 

Hi, this is the belated review on the AMR DP-777. After 500 hours of burning in, the DP-777 is now very stable, the magic started to deliver each and every time now (actually after 30 mins of warming up).

 

Dual DACs

 

Let’s look at DP-777’s most interesting features, the dual DAC. I think so far this feature is unique in the world.

 

The DP-777 has a Classic DAC (16bit) and also a HD DAC (32bit). When playing 16/44 sources (from a CD transport or files), the DP-777 will default to use the Classic DAC; when playing HD sources (e.g. 24/192), the DP-777 will switch to the HD DAC.

 

 

 

Why so much trouble one may ask. According to AMR, in order to achieve “Bit-Perfect” reproduction, two DACs are needed. One for the 16/44 and one for HD materials. Bit-Perfect is what others called non oversampling, which I think is technically correct, as non oversampling DAC doesn't muddle with the data at all and hence it is Bit-Perfect.

 

On the computer, people are trying their best to achieve a Bit-Perfect output as this has been said it provides the best sound quality. On a Windows machines, we use ASIO/WASAPI, on a Mac machine, we use Amarra/PureMusic/audirvana etc. The main reason is to avoid messing with the music data. AMR has extended this idea and push it all at the way to the DAC chip.

 

So does “Bit-Perfect” make any difference and how does it sound?

 

I have ~1TB of music on my drive, most are FLAC files ripped from CDs, so they are genuinely 16/44 files. Those are the ones I uses for listening test.

 

There is a “HD” button on the DP-777, so one can switch between the Classic DAC and HD DAC on the fly, so a real-time A/B comparison is very easy.

 

Till now, we (me and my friends) have tried nearly two hundred CDs and the results are surprisingly consistent, we can now tell which DAC is playing just by listening alone.

 

16/44 sources replay using the HD DAC

 

If the sources are 16/44, the sound from the HD DAC is quite “HiFi”, seems to have more air and the treble energy is stronger. There is more siblings sound for the female vocal. But after a while, we can sense that it is missing some warmth in the mid range and the vocal is thinner than it should. The sound stage is quite shallow and the rise and fall of each music note is not as clear cut, the rhythm and pace is also less accurate, and finally the “musicality” of the DAC is reduced.

 

16/44sources replay using the Classic DAC

 

Now playing the 16/44 sources using the Classic DAC, the sound is a lot more natural, the 3D sound stage is back, there is plenty of space one can sense between the instruments, the vocal and instruments move back a few meters as there is now sound stage depth to take about, the rise and fall of each music note is much more clearly defined.

 

 

For example, the vocal precision is shocking; Albert Lee sounded exactly as he had in concert. The harmonies on “Crying in the Rain” (Like This) were dazzlingly portrayed with accompanying songer’s voice and phrasing as meticulously engraved as Lee’s. Also many other Hi End DAC will try to reproduce Lee’s voice with too much nasal sound, make one feels there is too much echo added, there is no such issue with the DP-777, incredibly accurate vocal reproduction indeed.

 

Also, with the Bit-Perfect mode, the end notes of the piano and guitar have so much more body and presence and don’t end abruptly like many other DACs. This is very much different from the vocal siblings added by the HD DAC above. The vocal siblings added above were actually quite annoying. In other words, when it is NOT in Bit-Perfect mode, there is something extra (vocal siblings) that should not be there, however it is missing something (the piano and guitar’s end note presence and body) that should be there.

 

But with the Bit-Perfect mode, the body and presence make the end notes so real that they literally float in the air … this is something that the DP-777 has which is over and above other High End DACs I have tried, this is the stuff which I usually find within my the vinyl system only, this is just magic.

 

If so, why not just use the Classic DAC all the way?

 

Not quite, I have some HD tracks (24/96, 24/192 etc.), when playing those using the Classic DAC, there is an immediately reduction in details and resolution of 30% or so. I am not kidding; the sound is lifeless and boring. Dave Brubeck Quartet’s Take Five became Take Three instead. However, once I have switched it back to the HD DAC, this immediately give you an insight into how the way the music arrangement worked and how the various instrumental lines inter-related and combined to give such effect. The overall portrayal was vivid, animated and musically persuasive.

 

 

Note: when using the HD DAC to play back HD sources, this is not in Bit-Perfect mode, but with some advance digital filters in action. (I call those “Super Filters” to distinguish them from the generic digital filters found in most CDPs and DACs.) I will discuss those Super Filters in details in a follow up review.

 

Conclusion

 

Bit-Perfect mode is really working, and the difference is not small at all. So I guess that is why we need two DACs … as a comparison, vinyl is not that complicated after all.

 

Put it simply, the DP-777 is the closest I can get to vinyl sound from a DAC. Please try not to jump to the conclusion that this means sweet sound with full body, those are only some of the strength of the vinyl system. Actually a vinyl system has a much steady and deeper sound stage than normal DACs. Vinyl system’s openness, marco and micro dynamics, contrast and textures are much better than common DACs.

 

For example, many top end DACs I have tried, they can have fairly sweet sound (which is not an easy task for a DAC), but they all lack sound stage depth and not very musical. Although not tiring over time, it is lacking emotion and ultimately makes the music boring.

 

Back to the DP-777, it’s strength is similar to a very good vinyl system, much deeper sound stage than normal DACs, very musical. When listening to orchestras, the speakers and walls seems disappeared, I can sense the whole orchestras in front of me, each and every instrument portray in front of me as they were actually in my room. The experience is like you are sitting in the best sit in the music hall (which is surely not the front row).

 

 

With Symphony No. 5 (Bruckner) Finale , the DP-777 can handle the on rushing and climax like a thousand years old mountain stood in the dark sea, it is not even going to give a millimeter, the sound stage never collapse like many other High End DACs did.

 

The vocal is with so much clarity and accuracy, it is difficult to describe in HiFi terms, it is so close to the real performance, a single word may summaries it: REAL.

 

With Jazz, it has vibrant tonal color and beautiful texture; there was a truly authentic solidity and tangible substance to the sound of all instruments, which bring out the soul of the music so easily, one is easily get hooked to the passages.

 

To be improved:

 

1. If you have a bad recording, DP-777 is not going to hide it (some High End DACs do).

 

2. The energy in the bass department is not going to knock someone unconscious. It doesn’t have “Disco Bass” where each note is so powerful but doesn’thave much resonance afterwards? Some high end solid state DACs I have heard do have this ability though. The DP-777 does have a very deep and extended bass, it is good for Japanese Taiko drums, but when playing Lady Gaga it may lose out a little to the solid state DACs.

 

3. DP-777 has very high resolution in the sense that it can dig out music info no other DAC can, this may down to the benefit of the Bit-Perfect mode. However, if we talk about pure academic resolutions, which I have disabled the Bit-Perfect mode and employed 192KHz upsampling, it doesn’t have the laboratory microscope resolution of Weiss or dcs do, the resolution that DP-777 has is more organic, like when you taste a fresh apple, you can tell it is fresh, but under the laboratory microscope, it is still an apple.

 

4. When it is not burnt in, it is not that special and it does need 300-500 hours!

 

Overall, I think the DP-777 is an exceptional DAC, as it gives me something which other DACs cannot, especially on “musical”, “soul”, “natural” and “organic”. This is the only DAC I have heard which have some of the virtues of a good vinyl system, and I am not referring to the surface noise of the vinyl neither :-)

 

Ultimately, my vinyl system still sounds better, but I recently am listening to CDs more and more, as with the DP-777, each and every CD I can find something anew which I didn’t think it was possible to get from that CD before. So for music lovers, this DAC made be the ticket to nirvana. Cheers.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Great perspective here. Thanks! And FWIW, my limited time with the DAC leads me to agree with you. I think the Lampizat0r might be a very interesting DAC for you to explore, given your experiences here with this one.

 

[DM]

Lampizat0r is quite interesting indeed, but it my wife will never allows it in the house due to the "WAF" ... :-)

 

[seta]

...is that there are so many filter choices and i couldn't be sure i can reliably pick my favorite among them (classic: bit perfect1/2, HR: organic, apodising, etc.) It almost like having a different DAC each time, and the differences can definitely be heard.

 

But I agree that it is definitely a great DAC, and even though it uses tube output stage, it does not sound like a tube product at all. The Lampizator on the other hand has that neutral but glowing tube drive like a good valve pre amp.

 

[DM]

Seta you are right that the DP-777 has a lot of filters to choose from if one desires.

 

However, for normal listening? I just press the "AMR" button (like an "AUTO" button) on the remote and let the DP-777 to pick the most optimal settings for me.

 

99.99% of the instances it picked the right one, which are:

 

For 16/44 sources

Classic DAC

Zero Jitter mode ON

Bit-Perfect II filter

 

For HD Sources

HD DAC

Zero Jitter mode ON

Organic (Minimum phase + apodising + soft roll-off) filter

 

so far I have no complaint from the AMR button yet :-)

 

Seta? you may also want to try to roll some tubes, I would suggest you try Mullard or old Tesla (yellow marking ones), they make this great DAC even better.

 

[seta]

DM,

Of the tubes you've tried which one do you like best?

 

Off topic a bit - how do you like the PH-777? AMR seems to be making great products and I'm tempted to try that out as well. I'm using Esoteric C-03 at the moment.

 

[DM]

I have tried most (if not all) of current production tubes, none are better the stock tubes,the stock NOS tube used are damn good already and you can save your time and money here.

 

I have just started on NOS tubes now. I haven't tried a lot yet. but only those two:

 

Tesla (white/silver printing): not as good as the stock ones

 

Tesla (yellow printing): slightly better than the stock one, give more button end energy and slightly warmer sound.

 

To be tried:

Mullard

Amperex

Telefunken

Siemens

Philips

 

For the sonic signiture of the DP-777, I think the Mullard/Amperex tubes will be a good match, Telefunken/Siemens less so.

 

[DM]

I have evaluated a number of high-end phono stages before I settle on the AMR PH-77 (after all AMR was less well known than the big brands). I have tried:

 

Audia Flight Phon

Aesthetix IO Signature MK2

Boulder 1008 phono

Audio Research PH7

 

and finally I have settled on the PH-77 and I am so glad that I did. It is the most musical satisifying phono stage I have encountered of the lot. Let me quote one review line by Michael Fremer (Stereophile) that really sums it up:

 

"In­strumental harmonic structures were vividly painted with a full palette of colors" (also quoted on AMR's website)

 

Other excellent PH-77 reviews can be found on AMR's website:

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/ph-77_reviews.html

 

 

What I didn't expect was the PH-77 is really quite, quiter than my battery powered Solid Starte Sutherland PhD Phono that I had before. For a pure tube phono stage, this is pure amazing, this let me hear much more into the records which I couldn't before. Each record is like a new vinyl to me now.

 

Also I am using its USB recording function to record from the output of the PH-77 to the computer in HD 24/96 resolution, and the result is that the 24/96 rip from the LP via the PH-77 is quite a bit better than the CD/XRCD I have (on the same record).

 

So you have my unreserved recommendation to try out the PH-77.

 

Enjoy.

 

[CatManDo]

The DP-777 has XLR and RCA outputs.

 

Can these both be used, by having two devices connected?

 

I need connections to a power amp (XLR) and a headphone amp (RCA).

 

Thanks

 

[Audioclyde]

Yes, I've had both the RCA's & XLR's hooked up and active at the same time.

 

[terrythecat]

Did you consider the Classe CP-800 by any chance. I've read good reviews about it and have now added the AMR as well to my list of 2 to audition shortly.

 

Terry

 

[Audioclyde]

No; I was one of the first purchasers of the AMR last fall. I purchased without an audition (scary), but I'm extremely happy with the DAC & AMR!

 

I owned a Classe integrated made after the switched to the new look "CAP" line (I think that was it), and thought the sound was pretty mediocre, although I've owned older Classe equipment that I thought was superb.

 

Randy

 

[Afveep]

Yes, I've had both the RCA's & XLR's hooked up and active at the same time.

I have a DP777 burning in now! I can use either single ended or balanced. In your experience, is one sonically better than the other?

[Audioclyde]

I should have said I am using them both at the same time; in my current setup I have to convert the xlr to single ended. I use the RCA's for my main setup, but I haven't heard a difference between the two in my system.

[Jriggy]

Hello all,

My DP-777 just arrived! I did an in-home demo of a completely broken-in unit the other week, so I know the magic it is capable of!

My question is does anyone have any suggestions for the break-in process???

For now I will be using both tubed BNC ins. And plan on running a signal through each, one at a time, using a moded squeeze box unit, swapping back and forth. I was thinking 8 hours on, and few hours off type of cycle and doing this with my Ayon Triton II integrated OFF... Will this do? Do I need to do a break-in on all inputs I will use? Can the Amp stay off for all this?

I will entertain braking in the pre section at a later date.

 

If anyone has any suggestions or a more efficient way, please let me know.

 

Thanks so much

 

Jason

[Jriggy]

Guess I should of put this in the burn-in thread I found.... But no matter, I have decided to run the unit in my lil tv room system for a few weeks on the solid state gear for proper break-in and to not put all the hours on my tubes.

 

Sorry for the unesisary postings. It's usually how I enter a new place

[damien78]

Hello all,

My DP-777 just arrived! I did an in-home demo of a completely broken-in unit the other week, so I know the magic it is capable of!

My question is does anyone have any suggestions for the break-in process???

For now I will be using both tubed BNC ins. And plan on running a signal through each, one at a time, using a moded squeeze box unit, swapping back and forth. I was thinking 8 hours on, and few hours off type of cycle and doing this with my Ayon Triton II integrated OFF... Will this do? Do I need to do a break-in on all inputs I will use? Can the Amp stay off for all this?

I will entertain braking in the pre section at a later date.

 

If anyone has any suggestions or a more efficient way, please let me know.

 

Thanks so much

 

Jason

 

First, the break-in is quite long: 500 hours.

 

The advice I got from AMR for the break-in is to feed it with a signal, and be sure to have the pre-amp activated: set something like -5dB. And have it connected to a charge (e.g. an amp that does not need to be powered on). There was no specific advice on switching among the inputs.

 

I used a CDP playing on repeat to feed it, playing 24/7 for 3 weeks.

Note that during the first 100 hours, the sound quality will change a lot, being nice one day, dull the other, again better,... until becoming after for long on the great side.

 

Damien

[Jriggy]

Thanks Damien,

 

Sounds like I can leave it in the big system running to my integrated's direct input while leaving the tubes off! This is indeed good news. I had gotten conflicting reports on the amp needing to be on or off.

 

Thanks again

[glory]

AMR 777 or Lamp L4. What one outruns the other?

[Jriggy]

glory,

I think these two units are very different and ones system --or what one may be willing to do to their system-- would dictate which is better.

The Lampi is more analog, warm and rich and suited for a system with silver cables and well matched components. That is why I got rid of the L4, I was not in the position to re voice my system for it. But with that said, I did make a couple temporary cable changes right before selling it and could see how good it could of been, if I had the means to build around it...

 

The AMR was a much better fit in my system. I feel it could more easily be dropped into a neutral system that has a few warm qualities.

Cable matching was still key to bringing its musicality to the level of the Lamp and once there, I feel like it excelled in a few areas over the L4 and suited my tastes better...

[wisnon]

glory,

I think these two units are very different and ones system --or what one may be willing to do to their system-- would dictate which is better.

The Lampi is more analog, warm and rich and suited for a system with silver cables and well matched components. That is why I got rid of the L4, I was not in the position to re voice my system for it. But with that said, I did make a couple temporary cable changes right before selling it and could see how good it could of been, if I had the means to build around it...

 

The AMR was a much better fit in my system. I feel it could more easily be dropped into a neutral system that has a few warm qualities.

Cable matching was still key to bringing its musicality to the level of the Lamp and once there, I feel like it excelled in a few areas over the L4 and suited my tastes better...

Is this the Gen 3 or Gen 4 Lampi?

[FredoDeVille]

1. If you have a bad recording, DP-777 is not going to hide it (some High End DACs do).

 

Dear DM,

can you kindly further detail what you mean by this? Any specific models which do so? References?

 

Thank you very much & best regards

Alfred

[DM]

Dear DM,

can you kindly further detail what you mean by this? Any specific models which do so? References?

 

Thank you very much & best regards

Alfred

 

you can check my DAC review post:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/dac-reviews-acoustic-arts-tube-dac-audio-research-dac8-weiss-dac202-dcs-debussy-meitner-ma-1-amr-dp-777-a-9680/

 

Basically, if a DAC is not very transparent or added color to the sound, then this sometimes will make bad

recordings sound ok.

 

For example, as I recall, the Acoustic Arts Tube-DAC II does make thin recording sounded more body simply because it lumped everything into the middle.

 

The Weiss 202 make vocal sound warm because it added a little bit of "echo" or "hollowness" to the vocal.

 

YMMV.

 

DM

[cpvniii]

How did you account and adjust for the 1.2db difference in output level between the classic and HD modes?

[coxhaus]

Did you try using a Berkeley Alpha USB to feed the AMR 777? I was wondering if the Berkeley USB might sound better. I may get a chance to listen to one of these in a few weeks.