Jump to content
  • The Computer Audiophile
    The Computer Audiophile

    High End Immersive Audio - One Year On

     

     

    Audio: Listen to this article.

     

     

    One year ago I installed a twelve channel immersive audio system, and crossed my fingers that I'd enjoy it. OK, I researched the heck out of immersive audio and had a pretty good idea the additional ten Wilson Audio loudspeakers, Merging Technologies DAC, five Mytek Audio amplifiers, "mile" of Transparent cable, and everything else it took to get the system up and running, were going to sound fantastic. Over the last year I've listened to more music, been more excited about music, and discovered more artists and genres than I had in the previous ten years combined. Immersive audio has unequivocally had a larger impact on my enjoyment of music as an audiophile than anything I've heretofore experienced. Period.

     

    In the last twelve months I've become a Shostakovich loving Deadhead who is even more into Pearl Jam than ever. Let me explain how I got to this blissful place in my audio life. 

     

    Screenshot 2023-06-20 at 8.12.29 AM.pngImmersive audio, consisting mainly of Dolby Atmos music, delivers an incredibly captivating experience that's far more than just different from what we've heard previously. Immersive audio offers the music industry its HDTV moment. We all remember when we saw an HDTV presentation for the first time. It wasn't just different from standard definition television, it was a captivating new experience that enabled us to see incredible detail and color. Immersive audio enables us to be enveloped by music, or not. It enables us to be placed in the concert hall, or not. It enables us to hear our favorite musicians in their own spaces across the soundstage, or not. Immersive audio is an enabler of creativity, from an artist's perspective, and an enabler of endlessly enjoyable musical experiences from an audiophile's perspective. 

     

    I carefully selected the words "enable" and "or not" in the previous sentences for a reason. Immersive audio doesn't mandate anything, such as a guitarist behind the listener and a drummer on the ceiling. Immersive audio is an enabler. It offers artists and engineers the option to create an audio presentation in a three dimensional space. Some embrace the capabilities, some eschew them, and some are oblivious. We must keep in mind that the music industry is vast and decentralized. If there was a single voice speaking about any one topic or style, then I'd get suspicious. The fact that tools now exists to enable more creativity for those who want it, is a great thing for artists and for music lovers. 

     


    Classically Obsessed

     

    Over the course of the last year I started listening to Morten Lindberg's recordings on the 2L record label. Morten is the OG of immersive audio, embracing it many years before people had even heard the term immersive. I'd previously listened to some of Morten's recordings in stereo and quickly concluded they weren't for me. Nothing about them interested me or brought out the smallest hint of emotion in me. Listening to his recordings on my 7.1.4 immersive audio system is otherworldly. Not because of the technical prowess, but because technology finally enables this music to breath and be reproduced in a way in which the listener can absorb it and enjoy it for what it is, great music performed by great musicians.

     

    2L-logo-Music-Store_360x copy.jpgFor example, the 2L album titled Reflections by Trondheimsolistene, opens with Benjamin Britten's Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge for String Orchestra. To be honest, I don't even know if I wrote that the right way so as not to give myself up as a classical novice. However, the truth is that I couldn't care less. From the instant the music starts, I get goosebumps and feel a euphoric release of endorphins. This album, specifically this piece of music in TrueHD Dolby Atmos, pushed me into classical music with reckless abandon. Nothing, I repeat nothing, in my audio life has had such a large and lasting impact on my enjoyment of our wonderful hobby. A big tip of the cap to Morten Lindberg on this one.

     

    I've listened to this same piece of music in high resolution stereo a few times, and each time it falls flat to me. There is an unnatural squeezing of every musician into two front speakers, that by definition can't be bypassed. In a way I feel bad for Morten because he has to make stereo work. Fortunately he does a better job at this than 99% of people creating records today. Morten is a master of his craft. 

     

    brand.pngOnce I was "sold" on immersive classical music, I went on a shopping spree. I purchased everything from TRPTK, Deutsche Grammophon, Spirit of Turtle, etc... that I just might like. I didn't even taste test the music. I wanted it all. Immersive audio is that powerful. Among the immersive recordings that I now can't live without is the Berlin Philharmonic's Kirill Petrenko conducting Shostakovich’s Symphonies 8, 9, and 10 (link). The three symphonies are so magical and sound so fantastic that I researched Dmitri Shostakovich and the stories behind each of the symphonies. I wanted to know more about him and his music. That's how powerful immersive presentations of music can be. They turn disinterested folks into obsessive fans of everything related to the music. 

     

    I ordered the box set of this recording from one online store. Then the store had a hangup with the distributor, so I immediately ordered it from another source. I didn't want to wait any longer. I had to have this! The box ships with a nice book and beautiful packaging, but I would've purchased this one in a Ziploc baggie. The music is what it's all about for me and the emotional impact of Shostakovich’s Symphonies in TrueHD Dolby Atmos is immense. 

     

    Each week I search Apple Music Classical for new Shostakovich albums in Dolby Atmos. Apple Music Classical is a great upgrade over Apple Music because searching for the terms Shostakovich Spatial returns all the currently available Shostakovich albums in Atmos. Necessity is the mother of invention. I needed to find more immersive Shostakovich, so I eventually figured this query out on my own. 

     

     

    Deadhead?

     

    Prior to installing an immersive audio system, the only Grateful Dead song I liked was Touch of Grey. Let me be more specific. I like the 1 minute and 15 second shorter, single version, of Touch of Grey. Nothing about The Dead appealed to me. The music was a big messy ball of eclectic jamming that instantly made me tune out. Fast forward to the release of American Beauty in Dolby Atmos and the tides started to turn. This Steven Wilson mixed album sounded like an exploded technical drawing would sound if it was a piece of music, and in the best way. I can hear each musician in his own space. This album helped me realize that The Dead's music was more than a jammy mess of sound. It was created by talented musicians who needed room to breathe on the soundstage. 

     

    Then came the Dolby Atmos release of Europe '72 (Live 50th Anniversary Edition). I thought, oh boy, the band will be extra jammy, endlessly stretching out songs about which I don't care. I couldn't have been more wrong. A live album from 1972, also mixed by Steven Wilson, sucked me in as a new fan of the Dead's live performances. Songs I'd never heard and songs that I'd previously ignored with a passion, were all of a sudden speaking to me. Because I could hear each musician and I was enveloped by the sound, I understood the music and what was going on. Cramming all this beautiful music into two speakers is a compromise that shouldn't be repeated, now that we have the technology to reproduce it immersively. 

     

    This month, Mickey Hart's 2023 Dolby Atmos mix of Workingman's Dead was released, and it turned me into a Deadhead. In one year I went from Dead-averse to a Deadhead who wants more deep tracks in Dolby Atmos. Workingman's Dead is almost all new to me. This was a true test of Immersive audio's power. The old school tunes on American Beauty were slightly familiar, even if eschewed in stereo. The tracks on Wokingman felt like deep tracks for Dead fans (at least to me). 

     

    Right from the start of Uncle John's Band, Mickey Hart's mix puts the listener in an ideal position to hear everything, and supports the instruments with immersive backing vocals. Wow, this sounds like an incredible band capable of harmonizing like Crosby, Stills & Nash! What have I been missing my whole audiophile life! Now, I sit down and listen to Grateful Dead for the pure enjoyment of the music, and think absolutely zero thoughts about what I'm going to write or tell my friends. Immersive Dead is addicting and I want more. 

     


    A Bigger Pearl Jam Fan

     

    Pearl Jam changed my life in 1991. The band's music and causes spoke to me like nothing my 15 year old self had heard or felt. Since then, I've collected Pearl Jam vinyl and CDs, and seen the band at venues such as Wrigley Field, Fenway Park, Madison Square Garden, and Alpine Valley. I listen to Pearl Jam music in the car with my 11 year old daughter on the way to her school in the morning. It's the best 20 minutes of the day and I'll cherish the time forever. Sharing music that influenced me and continues to touch me, with her, is a real treat. 

     

    logo.pngI've listened to every Pearl Jam album a trillion times. It's impossible for me to get sick of the band's music and message. I can air guitar every mike McCready solo and belt out every Eddie Vedder verse as if my life depends on it. Because the original mix of the music was so ingrained in my head, I was a little nervous to try the Dolby Atmos mixes. Fortunately the new mixes brought another dimension of the band's music to me and I have a whole new respect for each member as a musician. 

     

    Once in a while a track with three guitarists, Mike, Stone, and Eddie, can get a little jumbled coming out of a stereo pair of speakers. There's only so much a mixing engineer can do to separate the sounds, yet make them a cohesive whole, in stereo. In Atmos, the band comes alive together and as individual musicians. 

     

    The 1998 album Yield is my current favorite Pearl Jam album available with an Atmos mix. Mixed by Josh Evans and Nick Rives at Capitol Studios, it's captivating from the opening guitar "warm-up" on the left side and spacious Jack Irons drum sound on Brain of J. I recently had a visitor, who is very familiar with Pearl Jam's music, come over to hear my immersive system. This was the first track I put on for him and it's the first track any Pearl Jam fan should put on an immersive system. It's three minutes of immersive bliss. 

     

    My favorite Pearl Jam track to hear in concert is Yield's Given to Fly. The Dolby Atmos mix of this track only lacks 20,000 jumping fans and their "Arms wide open with the sea as his floor." OK, a Pearl Jam lyric reference that must be experienced in concert to feel the gravity of it, followed by the whole crowd jumping with excitement (see video clip below). Like the rest of this album, I can listen to Given to Fly morning, noon, and night and enjoy the heck out of the immersive experience. It's as close to seeing the band in concert as one can get. 

     

    The Dolby Atmos versions of Pearl Jam albums are the only ones I listen to now. I hope more albums from the catalog are released in Atmos, and really hope high resolution TrueHD Dolby Atmos versions are made available on Blu-ray Disc or even download. 

     

     

     

     

     

    The System

     

    After using my immersive system for a year, I've adapted it and learned a ton about what it takes to reproduce 12 channels at the highest quality level. The one thing I would change, from my original design, is I would add one more subwoofer. One more Wilson Audio Lōkē, on the opposite side of the room could take my system up another notch. Other than that, there's nothing I would change. 

     

    Originally I was going to also use a Trinnov processor, but as it stands now, I don't think it's the right move for me. Trinnov will absolutely be the right move for many listeners because it just works and it works better than most other processors. A "big iron" processor isn't for me because I prefer to do as much on my computer as possible and take advantage of the nearly unlimited power of a computer. For example, I use 65,000 tap FIR filters for time and frequency room correction, and I play 24 bit / 352.8 kHz discrete immersive music. Neither are possible with any current processor. In addition to the super high resolution of the filters, I use the filters and Hang Loose Convolver to route channels. I can play a discrete immersive 5.1.4 DXD album on my 7.1.4 system just by using the right filter that sends the audio to the correct 10 of 12 channels. 

     

    I'm also very happy I selected the biggest speakers I could reasonably put in my room and on the walls. There's no bypassing the laws of physics. Speakers need to move air. Putting Wilson Audio Alidas on the walls and ceiling was unfamiliar territory for me, but now I wouldn't have it any other way. The new Alexia V speakers for my front left and right channels are stunning with immersive as well as stereo playback. Powering the Alidas with Mytek Brooklyn+ amps is still something I would do today. The amps are great and I still love the flexibility. I may move my immersive electronics around a bit in the room. Having five amps for the surrounds, center, and height channels enables me to move amps granularly as I see fit. 

     

    The cabling I selected is also best in class. I've heard people refer to my pair of custom Transparent eight channel cables as unicorn cables, and in a way that's true. Transparent is capable of building almost anything, at incredibly high quality, so I thought I'd ask for the moon. The team at Transparent delivered and I can't complain. I also have endless confidence that the Transparent cabling I ran inside the walls was the right move. I never want to upgrade those cables, because rerunning in-wall cables isn't easy, and based on the performance I'm getting an upgrade won't be mecessary. 

     

    On the digital side, I absolutely love the Merging Technologies Anubis and HAPI Mk2 converters. The Anubis sits at my listening position, with its large volume control and mute button. It's a luxury that all audiophiles should have. The HAPI Mk2 is endlessly configurable and sounds terrific with its support for everything from mono to sixteen channels at 44.1 through 384 kHz and up through DSD256. I'd like to try converters from some of the storied high end companies, but as of this writing, none of them have ventured into the immersive market. 

     

    I love my system so much that I've had irrational thoughts of purchasing two of certain items, just in case they go out of production and I can't get them repaired. That's a true sign of satisfaction with a system and enjoyment from what the system delivers.

     

     

    One Year Wrap Up

     

    One year on and I'm even more enthusiastic about immersive audio than I was at the start of this journey. My enthusiasm comes from both the music and what I see in the marketplace. Dolby Atmos music enables record labels to deliver a single file containing everything from stereo and/or binaural to twelve and sixteen channels of playback. More mainstream Atmos music enters the streaming services on a daily basis (Atmos Music Search). I also see more physical Atmos music releases on the way as well as downloads. Both good signs for the format of the future. 

     

    Music from Shostakovich to the Dead to Pearl Jam has been absolutely amazing for my musical enjoyment. I can't imagine researching the life and music of Dmitri Shostakovich unless something made me incredibly excited about both. That something is immersive audio. Everyone should also keep in mind that immersive music has ups and downs, good and bad mixes, but just like stereo releases, we don't judge an entire format on its worst performance. We look at the whole body of work. One great thing about immersive mixes is that the engineers are consistently getting better at their craft, even updating already released mixes on the fly. 

     

    When I started on this immersive journey I wasn't even sure I could pull off installation of such a system. It's no small feat to install a proper immersive system. I know as well as anyone. However, where there's a will, there's a way. It took me months of thinking about it and daydreaming about it, before I had a plan that I thought would work. Not only does the system work, it's absolutely amazing from both subjective and objective points of view.

     

    Like most people reading this, music plays a huge role in my life. An audio system and music capable of bringing more satisfaction and enjoyment to my musical life is truly something to behold. Immersive audio is that something, and there's nothing like it.
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Note: If the video above doesn't work well, please click here to view it on the Matterport site.




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    2 hours ago, Foggie said:

    Or some just don't like it or want it 🤷‍♂️.   Just another point of view here 🙂👍  I grasp it, but don't want drums above my head, bass 2in from my nose, sounds coming from everywhere.  Its great to have choices and respect those who get into it, but like anything, atmos isn't the greatest thing ever made.  

     

    Getting bombarded with immersive everything, isn't making it more interesting (for me), it's actually exhausting to be honest.  In a way immersive is coming off much like MQA.  Not the technology, just the hype, discussions etc..  Feels like its being forced on us and possibly by some music delivery companies requirements ($$).  A shiny new toy, format 🙂

     

    Its technically cool and what can be done with it is also cool, but that's where it ends for me.  It's another (surround sound) effect and IMHO is for home theater or HP.  Another format to get people to spend $ on another version of dark side of the moon.  No thank you - redbook, highres, dsd, mqa, dvda, blueray etc...  It just never ends.

     

    There is a slew of sub-topics WRT economics, mixing etc.. and I'm just providing another prospective and again in no way criticizing it as a choice for anyone.  If it makes one happy, great!  👍

     

    The stereo mix is the most important to me 100% because I want to listen to music first and foremost (like the way you hear it), not really into the audio gymnastics / cool effect factor.  My .02 

     

     

     

     

    Interesting perspective. Sounds like you haven’t spent much time, or any, listening to immersive audio. No problem with that however. 
     

     

     

    Not sure I really understand the following quote though:

     

    2 hours ago, Foggie said:

    The stereo mix is the most important to me 100% because I want to listen to music first and foremost (like the way you hear it), not really into the audio gymnastics / cool effect factor. 


     

    Not sure I follow this either:

     

    2 hours ago, Foggie said:

    Feels like its being forced on us and possibly by some music delivery companies requirements ($$). 

     

     

     


     

    2 hours ago, Foggie said:

    Another format to get people to spend $ on another version of dark side of the moon.

    Given that the purchase model is dead for all intents and purposes, and almost nobody is selling immersive audio, I’m not sure the facts backup your opinion. 
     

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Quote

     

    Yes, great article.  I loved this quote from John Couling of Dolby Labs:

    “When you take sounds and you separate them from each other,” Couling said, “you will be able to hear those sounds independently much more clearly than if they are on top of each other. By creating space, we also create depth and clarity — and we found that’s what content creators really wanted.”

     

     

     

     

    Which is what competent stereo delivers. "Space, depth and clarity" are the result of optimising 2 channel replay, without requiring the extra equipment to achieve the 'effect'. And it all occurs on the performance stage, rather than coming at you from various parts of the room. So, as Foggie muses, why go to the overheads of some surround system?

     

    If I listen to early Rolling Stones, I can see each of the band "in their own space". Just like if I was in their rehearsal room; or in the case of their later mixed albums, each acoustic layer existing as a separate entity, in the whole. Without help from extra speakers. Yes, an Atmos rig will make it easier to get the sense of this - but it's not a necessity ...

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    45 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Why not stick with mono?

     

    Mono would be fine if most recordings to date were in only one channel. But the majority is stereo; and many use that format for creating a lateral spread, and other effects; we're used to classical works and stage presentations having a strong left to right distinction, when live; hence stereo makes sense.

     

    If there was a large suite of recordings, over a major time frame, which used recording techniques to capture the immersive qualities of an event, then the Atmos type systems would be the obvious choice to go with, and would be "part of the furniture". But they aren't there ...

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

    If there was a large suite of recordings, over a major time frame, which used recording techniques to capture the immersive qualities of an event

    There is a large suite of recordings already. 
     

    What about the vast majority of albums, that never existed in a physical space? Will mono due? 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    58 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    What about the vast majority of albums, that never existed in a physical space? Will mono due? 

     

    Albums that had no existence in front of a microphone, say, recordings by Jarre, have a stereo component to their composition - because it was available to the artist, and could be used as a creative tool; reproducing in mono would reduce 'the message'; OTOH, people have complained that albums that were never meant to be anything than mono, say early Beatles, just don't work as well if the individual contributions are hard panned, left or right. My point would be that well done stereo, perhaps switchable to mono as required, suits most situations; except for, properly done Atmos style mixes.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    11 minutes ago, fas42 said:

     

    Albums that had no existence in front of a microphone, say, recordings by Jarre, have a stereo component to their composition - because it was available to the artist, and could be used as a creative tool; reproducing in mono would reduce 'the message'; OTOH, people have complained that albums that were never meant to be anything than mono, say early Beatles, just don't work as well if the individual contributions are hard panned, left or right. My point would be that well done stereo, perhaps switchable to mono as required, suits most situations; except for, properly done Atmos style mixes.

    Dark Side of the Moon never existed in a physical space. Is mono good enough? If not, then is stereo good enough?

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Dark Side of the Moon never existed in a physical space. Is mono good enough? If not, then is stereo good enough?

     

    DSOTM is a highly layered production - at one stage, over 3 decades ago, I used this, stereo, album constantly, to reference how much 'space' I could conjure out of it. Mono would still give the recording its magic; stereo makes it better - and a remastering specifically designed for Atmos would make it better still, if reproduced as intended by the engineer of such a mix - there is no black or white in this ...

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Just now, fas42 said:

     

    DSOT is a highly layered production - at one stage, over 3 decades ago, I used this, stereo, album constantly, to reference how much 'space' I could conjure out of it. Mono would still give the recording its magic; stereo makes it better - and a remastering specifically designed for Atmos would make it better still, if reproduced as intended by the engineer of such a mix - there is no black or white in this ...

    I'm just trying to follow your logic. I agree there is no black and white. 

     

    The Atmos DSOTM is amazing. Studio productions, like most music created today, and for the last many decades, can be made into amazing Atmos mixes. 

     

    The logic some people, not you, use to eschew immersive audio is strange to me. I thought you were saying it's only good for live recordings made with immersive in mind. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    10 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

    I don't think you grasp it at all.  You really do need to have experienced a great modern multich reproduction system to have an accurate point of view

    Like the stereo bashers back in the day, (I was there) thinking it was all about goofy sound effects.

    Yes, it is a new & different paradigm on the ART of reproduced music. But you have to come into it with an

    open mind and listen to a great system using recordings from today's leading musicians and recording engineers. You just might change your mind.

    I agree Sal. While I wasn't there when mono moved to stereo, I have studied the transition in newspaper archives. The arguments against immersive are identical to those from 1959 against stereo. It's crazy. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    15 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    The logic some people, not you, use to eschew immersive audio is strange to me. I thought you were saying it's only good for live recordings made with immersive in mind. 

     

    In my earlier post, I was responding to the comment "When you take sounds and you separate them from each other,” Couling said, “you will be able to hear those sounds independently much more clearly than if they are on top of each other. By creating space, we also create depth and clarity ... ". An immersive rig can generate that sense, with a little bit of manipulation of a stereo mix - but it's also obtainable by accurate reproduction of just straight stereo. And then, if you want to replay mixes specifically captured and mastered for multi-channel, to their best advantage, a system designed to do that is necessary - if you have an Atmos style setup then both options are available.

     

    But those who don't want to go to the expense of the rig, and buying all the albums, Yet Again, can still have cake to eat, by directing efforts in another direction - it's a choice, up to the individual.

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    15 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

    To illustrate:

    John Curl exhumed the following quote from a mid-1960s letter to Stereophile, originally published in Vol. No. 4: "Sirs: I say that stereo is a first class fake and the biggest fraud ever put out by American Mfr. I have never found anyone who knows audio engineering or music that did not agree with this. All those who disagree just don't know enough to know the truth or they are liars engaged in selling stereo equipment. The only reason that most people have gone for stereo is that they have not had time, and will not take the time to get all the facts, so they are victims of advertising, the biggest con game in the world, and I am not so sure that they don't deserve what they get."

    Absolute gold.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    15 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Interesting perspective. Sounds like you haven’t spent much time, or any, listening to immersive audio. No problem with that however. 

     

    Not necessarily, if one doesn't like it nor want it for music, doesn't indicate they I haven't spent any time with it.  Odd that was the conclusion made.  Like I said, the technology is cool (channel, object, beds), I just posed an opinion on it for music vs HT and HP.

     

     

    Not sure I really understand the following quote though:

     

    A well done stereo/master mix provides the info and spatial cues needed IMHO. Are the cues interrupted in the same manner as atmos for example, not necessarily.  It is different for sure, but again not everyone wants all those "effects" for music IMHO.  When I'm at a jazz venue I hear "stereo" not surround sound, spatial etc..  Most importantly, it comes down to personal preference and how one hears and prefers to listen to music, which is really all that matters in the end. 

     

    Not sure I follow this either:

     

    Another format / business model requiring lic fees, specific hrdwr, delivery, not to mention the huge task put on the artist and engineers to "get with the program".  This is a whole can of worms and not interested in derailing the topic. 

     


     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    5 minutes ago, Foggie said:
    16 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Interesting perspective. Sounds like you haven’t spent much time, or any, listening to immersive audio. No problem with that however. 

     

    Not necessarily, if one doesn't like it nor want it for music, doesn't indicate they I haven't spent any time with it.  Odd that was the conclusion made.  Like I said, the technology is cool (channel, object, beds), I just posed an opinion on it for music vs HT and HP.

     

     

    Not sure I really understand the following quote though:

     

    A well done stereo/master mix provides the info and spatial cues needed IMHO. Are the cues interrupted in the same manner as atmos for example, not necessarily.  It is different for sure, but again not everyone wants all those "effects" for music IMHO.  When I'm at a jazz venue I hear "stereo" not surround sound, spatial etc..  Most importantly, it comes down to personal preference and how one hears and prefers to listen to music, which is really all that matters in the end. 

     

    Not sure I follow this either:

     

    Another format / business model requiring lic fees, specific hrdwr, delivery, not to mention the huge task put on the artist and engineers to "get with the program".  This is a whole can of worms and not interested in derailing the topic. 

     


     

     

     

    I gleaned that you don't have much experience with Atmos based on the totality of your answers. Assuming your are very learned in the field in which you work, you're probably able to tell when people aren't that experienced in it, just based on the words they use and how they talk. This is what I got from your answers. Not a negative, just the impression I got. 

     

    When you're at a jazz venue, you her the entire venue in 360 degree surround. Every part of the venue from the floor to ceiling and front and back walls contribute to the sound you hear. In one's listening room, you are bouncing that venue off of your own venue, creating a presentation that is far from what actually existed. In Atmos, the sounds coming from the ceiling, side, and rear walls of the venue are reproduced identically. There is no need to route rear wall ambiance through the front two channels, when it can appropriately come from the rear wall. 

     

    I hear you about the new requirements to produce the content. If these requirements delivered the same stereo tool, but just added a tax, then I'd agree with you. Dolby invented a technology that does what stereo can't do. There is always a cost to anything like this in all industries. Nobody is forced to move into Atmos, it's a choice. I hope it remains a choice. Nothing is for everybody. I'm sure there are guys who absolutely prefer mono.

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

     

    When you're at a jazz venue, you her the entire venue in 360 degree surround. Every part of the venue from the floor to ceiling and front and back walls contribute to the sound you hear. In one's listening room, you are bouncing that venue off of your own venue, creating a presentation that is far from what actually existed. In Atmos, the sounds coming from the ceiling, side, and rear walls of the venue are reproduced identically. There is no need to route rear wall ambiance through the front two channels, when it can appropriately come from the rear wall.

     

     

    I see a problem with that explanation ... the direct sound in an Atmos mix, coming from the front speakers, is still bouncing around the walls of your listening space, inter-modulating with the sound from the surround speakers. Potentially confusing what your ears have to unravel. This can be partially solved by severe treatments of the wall surfaces, and upping the volume of the surround channels to dominate the sounds from those directions - the former creates an unnatural listening space, the latter is no longer truthful to what was recorded.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    22 minutes ago, fas42 said:

     

    I see a problem with that explanation ... the direct sound in an Atmos mix, coming from the front speakers, is still bouncing around the walls of your listening space, inter-modulating with the sound from the surround speakers. Potentially confusing what your ears have to unravel. This can be partially solved by severe treatments of the wall surfaces, and upping the volume of the surround channels to dominate the sounds from those directions - the former creates an unnatural listening space, the latter is no longer truthful to what was recorded.

    I guessed you’d say this :~)

     

    The thing to keep in mind is what can give the best opportunity for accurate music reproduction. Nothing is perfect. Playing the band, in addition to front, side, and height information, out only two front channels isn’t more faithful to the real event. 
     

    In Atmos, the rear ambiance can be played only from the rear channels if desired. 
     

    I have recordings created to work on two and four channels. When I start with front stereo, then flip on the rears, the listener is placed smack into the center of the venue.  It’s amazing. Anyone who has heard this, immediately understands that stereo can’t come close to reproducing this reality. It shouldn’t even be an argument. It’s a fact. 
     

    Whether or not people like it is a totally different thing. I respect all opinions. 

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I guessed you’d say this :~)

     

    :)

     

    12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    The thing to keep in mind is what can give the best opportunity for accurate music reproduction. Nothing is perfect. Playing the band, in addition to front, side, and height information, out only two front channels isn’t more faithful to the real event. 
     

     

    Yes, the "best opportunity" is the way to look at it. Regarding being faithful to the real event, the method that some use, of just using a single pair of microphones to mimic what a pair of ears would hear at some spot in the audience, seems as good as any if intended for a stereo rig.

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 channel system:  How stylish and handsome.  A true man of taste.

     

    12 channel system:  Welcome to my geek lair.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 7/7/2023 at 10:09 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I gleaned that you don't have much experience with Atmos based on the totality of your answers. Assuming your are very learned in the field in which you work, you're probably able to tell when people aren't that experienced in it, just based on the words they use and how they talk. This is what I got from your answers. Not a negative, just the impression I got. 

     

    Sorry for ruffling feathers.  Do I have the experience with atmos like you, no not at all.  I've heard it, researched it on a basic level as well as the various other "sub" topics.  My OP wasn't to poo-poo it for others that enjoy it as I stated.  Really trying to compartmentalize multi-chnl and stereo Hifi as separate entities and stand by that.  I just don't have a desire for multi-chnl audio (other then HT) simple as that.  My digital is well sorted, but if someone where to give me $$ with a choice to add to my rig, I'd get a vinyl rig before multi channel.

     

    On 7/7/2023 at 10:09 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

    When you're at a jazz venue, you her the entire venue in 360 degree surround. Every part of the venue from the floor to ceiling and front and back walls contribute to the sound you hear. In one's listening room, you are bouncing that venue off of your own venue, creating a presentation that is far from what actually existed. In Atmos, the sounds coming from the ceiling, side, and rear walls of the venue are reproduced identically. There is no need to route rear wall ambiance through the front two channels, when it can appropriately come from the rear wall. 

     

    I understand acoustics pretty well and this is kind of out of context to what I meant (my fault), it was a generalization, e.g. venues (amplified) aren't using "10-12" surround speakers. 

     

    I get it, you and many others are totally all-in with atmos, and that is cool.  Same as being all-in with Hifi.   Enjoy it, have fun.

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, Foggie said:

    Enjoy it, have fun.

    Absolutely! 
     

    I enjoy my headphone systems, my two channel systems, and my immersive system. There’s no best for everyone and no wrong answers. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now




×
×
  • Create New...