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re: subscriber tag

When I first noticed the "Subscriber" tag showing up under the posters name, I have to admit that I had a subconscious, negative reaction to it, not that I actually think it is bad, but it does kind of feel that way.

I wonder if changing the text from "Subscriber" to "Contributor" might remove that sting ?

Ahhh... But equally why shout how brilliant this move is on Chris' part until you have seen what effect it has...

 

Eloise

Richard... You post my comment without of context!

 

Everyone should have their say about the positives and negatives of Chris' subscription decision; or no one should. THAT was the point...

Eloise,

Please tell me how I have treated your remarks out of context, or you unfairly as it was not my aim to do so.

Out of context? Not at all. You asked a question. Did you not? Your question also contains a POV in the body of the question as well. I take your point and I answered your question. How is my answer a distortion to your point? What rules do you follow; and what is missing for me to answer your question directly

You made your point. I answered with essentially my perspective, and it's diametrically opposed to your POV. "...why shout how brilliant this move is on Chris' part until you have seen what effect is has..." is a question? N'est-ce pas? Am I not entitled to response with an answer?

Really, Eloise. one can't answer or actually make a statement about a different perspective? I do not wonder what happens. I make things happen by word and deed. My perspective is the same for all. I do not argue with perception, so if you seek a wait and see that's fine for you. I choose another intention and followed through with action.

Is that too simplistic?

Best,

Richard

re: subscriber tag

 

When I first noticed the "Subscriber" tag showing up under the posters name, I have to admit that I had a subconscious, negative reaction to it, not that I actually think it is bad, but it does kind of feel that way.

 

I wonder if changing the text from "Subscriber" to "Contributor" might remove that sting ?

What sting are you referring to? Asked sincerely. What is the difference for you between being a subscriber or a contributor?

Best,

Richard

Have you seen what's in the subscriber-only fora? They're fluff. Not in a way that I think they shouldn't be there but I don't see anything being posted in them that will be a valuable resource for CA newbies or even seasoned, grizzled regulars. And, without trying to put words in his mouth, I think that's how Chris C. meant them.

 

Anything but CA is a no brainer; there's nothing about CA in there. Buy/Sell has already been addressed in detail by Chris C. in this thread. Where do you buy equipment is a parallel topic at best and the final forum for questions, comments and concerns etc. should only be available to subscribers. Why should you have editorial input into an institution you are not willing to invest in?

 

You're completely missing the point here.

1. Non subscribers will still comment about CA and ask questions like "how do I search for..." but it will be in the General forum as always.

2. Anything but CA for non subscribers will be part of the General forum or wherever non-subs, choose to put it.

2a. The point of the extra fora (I thought) was to clean up CA a bit in terms of utility. This doesn't. Of course Chris C. could become a dictator and forbid non-subscribers from addressing subscriber fora topics altogether.

3. "Why should you have editorial input into an institution you are not willing to invest in? That's just silly. Why should you invest your precious time and thought in something you don't get paid for? Why should you help NOOBs understand CA? Why should you anything?

4. No matter what one should or shouldn't do, non-subs will still have editorial input into this institution unless banned from doing so. They'll just do it wherever they like willy-nilly, silly, instead of in a designated spot.

-Chris

Seriously, people. Five bloody dollars per month? FIVE! How many of you didn't spend that on coffee today? Or more embarrassingly; what percentage of your last hifi purchase is $5? And we get 65 posts of mostly pissing and moaning about the site that has supposedly welcomed, informed, educated, amused and entertained you for years for FREE now offering some extra fluff and some pretty decent discounts for those willing to pay an OPTIONAL subscription. Pathetic.

 

I wasn't going to subscribe because I just wasn't that interested and I can't currently afford even the discounted prices on the download websites but now I will, just to show you up for all the whining tight-arses that you have exposed yourself to be.

 

RS

Wow, cavalier attitude if ever I saw one.

Yes, $5 a month sounds like a very little; sounds is the key. Without going into my gory financial details, if I could afford a financial adviser he/she would say, "are you kidding me, you have to give up something first, and better yet give up double that." And I'm not kidding.

And let's look at a comparable in the audio realm. A subscription to Stereophile. Arguably it has better (more reliable) content than CA, certainly better written and organized. It has advertising. One can respond both in the letter section and online. It has a website available to all, with most if not all archives available at no extra cost. It costs a lot more to put out (a sizable hired staff). There's a tangible product (a paper version). A subscription costs about $1 per month.

Please don't get hung up on the "better content" comment. I mean in terms of good content per word. There's good content here too, it's just often hard to find. There's a lot of crap to sift through.

And yes I know about the sell function, no Stereophile doesn't offer one. That's why I might subscribe for a month or two once I see that folks can actually sell stuff here. My phantom financial adviser will approve of that.-Chris

Seriously, people. Five bloody dollars per month? FIVE! How many of you didn't spend that on coffee today? Or more embarrassingly; what percentage of your last hifi purchase is $5? And we get 65 posts of mostly pissing and moaning about the site that has supposedly welcomed, informed, educated, amused and entertained you for years for FREE now offering some extra fluff and some pretty decent discounts for those willing to pay an OPTIONAL subscription. Pathetic.

 

I wasn't going to subscribe because I just wasn't that interested and I can't currently afford even the discounted prices on the download websites but now I will, just to show you up for all the whining tight-arses that you have exposed yourself to be.

 

RS

Wow, cavalier attitude if ever I saw one.

Yes, $5 a month sounds like a very little; sounds is the key. Without going into my gory financial details, if I could afford a financial adviser he/she would say, "are you kidding me, you have to give up something first, and better yet give up double that." And I'm not kidding.

And let's look at a comparable in the audio realm. A subscription to Stereophile. Arguably it has better (more reliable) content than CA, certainly better written and organized. It has advertising. One can respond both in the letter section and online. It has a website available to all, with most if not all archives available at no extra cost. It costs a lot more to put out (a sizable hired staff). There's a tangible product (a paper version). A subscription costs about $1 per month.

Please don't get hung up on the "better content" comment. I mean in terms of good content per word. There's good content here too, it's just often hard to find. There's a lot of crap to sift through.

And yes I know about the sell function, no Stereophile doesn't offer one. That's why I might subscribe for a month or two once I see that folks can actually sell stuff here. My phantom financial adviser will approve of that.

-Chris

Duplicate

re: subscriber tag

 

When I first noticed the "Subscriber" tag showing up under the posters name, I have to admit that I had a subconscious, negative reaction to it, not that I actually think it is bad, but it does kind of feel that way.

 

I wonder if changing the text from "Subscriber" to "Contributor" might remove that sting ?

Fair point, however I think the people that are uncomfortable with such tags will still be uncomfortable regardless of what it says.

The thing is, every forum I have joined has some kind of member 'ranking' system, advancement in the ranks being gained by things like post count, donations to the forum server costs, or at the discretion / whim of the forum supreme ruler (ie the person who set it up). It's practically unavoidable given that it's written into the software. Benign or not, you could easily argue that all forums are facist dictatorships disguised as socialist communities - all members have an apparently equal voice but only one has ultimate power. Personally I don't think it's a big deal, but I've found it by turns interesting / annoying / amusing / disorienting, depending on how it has played out on different forums.

FWIW the private forum areas that can only be viewed by certain members, in my experience, rarely contain core content (it's self defeating) - they're more likely to contain administration type discussions about running the forum, or personal stuff that you don't want to be visible to search engines. Different story where the core content is not user generated (think Murdoch paywall as an example).

Whatever. And apologies for the soapboxing. I'm (probably) going to subscribe. No idea how it will all work out for CA, my crystal ball has been on the fritz.

© Souptin 2012. Permission to quote granted, provided you promise to join the campaign to liberate my brethren from your local grocery store.

Since I'm not a subscriber I'll comment here.

There seems to be something wrong with the reply function when working with articles. Sometimes the reply doesn't show up which leads one to try again, and possibly again after clearing the cache and what not. Still nothing, or perhaps a garble, and then lo and behold, three posts of the same thing. Of course, time to edit has run out, it becomes impossible to delete all dupes, so I turn out to be the dupe.

-Chris

What sting are you referring to? Asked sincerely. What is the difference for you between being a subscriber or a contributor?

Best,

Richard

Perhaps "sting" is a bit too strong, but it was the word that popped into my head at the time. The difference is that "contributor" sounds a little more positive, less 'elite'. Note that quite a few people had a problem with the tag, and I suspect, were trying to rationalize their vague subconscious reactions to it.

Now that I think about it more, and viewing your post with the tag, I'm beginning to suspect that a good part of the problem is in the styling of the tag. A boxed, bordered, reverse color, bold, all caps device has a strong attention getting, even a warning quality, to it, which may be what is causing folks to be disturbed by it, especially appearing right under the user name, on every (subscriber) post.

Perhaps a simple box with mixed case, regular font text would be less intrusive, elite, and off-putting then the current style.

While this may seem like quibbling about tiny details, it relates to the culture of the CA community, which is important.

Perhaps "sting" is a bit too strong, but it was the word that popped into my head at the time. The difference is that "contributor" sounds a little more positive, less 'elite'. Note that quite a few people had a problem with the tag, and I suspect, were trying to rationalize their vague subconscious reactions to it.

 

Now that I think about it more, and viewing your post with the tag, I'm beginning to suspect that a good part of the problem is in the styling of the tag. A boxed, bordered, reverse color, bold, all caps device has a strong attention getting, even a warning quality, to it, which may be what is causing folks to be disturbed by it, especially appearing right under the user name, on every (subscriber) post.

 

Perhaps a simple box with mixed case, regular font text would be less intrusive, elite, and off-putting then the current style.

 

While this may seem like quibbling about tiny details, it relates to the culture of the CA community, which is important.

Thank you for taking the time to help me appreciate your perspective on the conscious/unconscious nuances of the subscriber/contributor meanings or none at all. I concur that it is important for members to express their reactions. My hope is that reflection on the matters in contention or about which one has unsettled feelings needs to be aired, brought to our Host's attention and shared with the membership.

The work that I do involves others and their models of the world which as you might consider are varied, similar, extraordinary etc. I am always curious (in the best sense of that word) about perspective/symmetry and spectrum and have devoted my practice to employing those models.

I personally do not regard the subscriber attribution/label/marker as having negative connotations or by its design which is quite prominent and heavy but so insignificant to me as I did not even notice it was there until someone pointed it out in a post. Made me chuckle. I won't be long winded (maybe that's too late). Merely regard the innovation with a certain perspective that I find has positive goals. This is not to contest how others feel about it.

Sincerity is measured by time. I believe our Host/Owner will keep those values that pulled us into CA high in his priority for the membership at large.

Again thank you for including me in your thoughts,

Richard

Eloise,

 

Please tell me how I have treated your remarks out of context, or you unfairly as it was not my aim to do so.

 

Out of context? Not at all. You asked a question. Did you not? Your question also contains a POV in the body of the question as well. I take your point and I answered your question. How is my answer a distortion to your point? What rules do you follow; and what is missing for me to answer your question directly

 

You made your point. I answered with essentially my perspective, and it's diametrically opposed to your POV. "...why shout how brilliant this move is on Chris' part until you have seen what effect is has..." is a question? N'est-ce pas? Am I not entitled to response with an answer?

 

Really, Eloise. one can't answer or actually make a statement about a different perspective? I do not wonder what happens. I make things happen by word and deed. My perspective is the same for all. I do not argue with perception, so if you seek a wait and see that's fine for you. I choose another intention and followed through with action.

 

Is that too simplistic?

 

Best,

Richard

Forgive me if I was being tetchy... But they ways *I* read the post and your quote of mine was implying I was suggesting no one should post positive comments in the move by Chris to introduce subscriptions... Quite the opposite was my intention however my response was meant as sarcasm in reply to someone saying that any negative response should wait to "see how thing pan out".

EVERY opinion is welcome IMO. If that opinion didn't come across then I apologise.

Eloise

Perhaps "sting" is a bit too strong, but it was the word that popped into my head at the time. The difference is that "contributor" sounds a little more positive, less 'elite'. Note that quite a few people had a problem with the tag, and I suspect, were trying to rationalize their vague subconscious reactions to it.[...]

With respect, it's not what the tag says its the implication of some form of entitlement that being a subscriber may imply.

Eloise

Gee, of course it is a business, but what is the business was my point. This site used to read more like a review/news blog with adverts and a forum. I do wish Chris the best of luck with this new model, but it is different in my eyes. Frankly, I would rather pay double and keep industry affiliations out of it.

 

And yes, it is bad form on my part. I guess I am a bit dismayed by it all. I have lurked around here from this sites onset and have watched it evolve. As it is, most of the strong early posters remain silent or have left, and this seems like another nail in the coffin. I'll get off of my soapbox now...

I have similar feeling to 4est...

Yes the CA website is a business; but what does "a business" mean?

Is the business side primarily to keep the site running or to provide an income to Chris. Well Chris has made it clear it's the latter...

For examples of the former business... Well let's not go there...

Many people have made this site what it is... Not just Chris but all the people providing answers to new visitors questions... So don't those people deserve some acknowledgement?

Eloise

Forgive me if I was being tetchy... But they ways *I* read the post and your quote of mine was implying I was suggesting no one should post positive comments in the move by Chris to introduce subscriptions... Quite the opposite was my intention however my response was meant as sarcasm in reply to someone saying that any negative response should wait to "see how thing pan out".

 

EVERY opinion is welcome IMO. If that opinion didn't come across then I apologise.

 

Eloise

Eloise, forgive me.

I completely missed the nuance of your post. Actually, to be more accountable (how much more? All the way accountable), I was reacting to many (other) POVs that I regarded as limited in perspective and unduly critical with unfair/self-serving attributions for a long-term implementation but which seemed to fly in the face of what I have been actually experiencing since I joined as a member just over a year ago. One minute Chris' CA is "this" and suddenly it's going to turn into "that".

I am anticipating that the synergy for CA that is in the process of being manifested (in the works/on deck/opening up pathways) will come forward and transform Ca into something different (I believe better for many reasons) but in no way will this synergy corrupt/ignore the core values, the sincerity and integrity that so far I have experienced since becoming a member over two years after you arrived and with only a fourth of your contributions to this Forum.

In a post (#5) in the Subscriber's thread "Thank Chris", I expressed directly to the thread and all viewers my intuition (My Voice) about what I imagine Chris' raison d'être for these innovations intended to accomplish. The positive response from our Host/Owner confirmed my intuition. The emphasis is not meant for me rather the vision, intention and follow-through by word and deed that was apparent to me, taking shape, stimulating others to envision the possibilities and that is where the emphasis should be.

Please excuse my all-too-facile response to your post. I should know better, having read all your posts since I arrived at CA that very often you pose something meant to stir one-way/stilted/unaware thinking to the other possibilities. Or to point out subtle or obvious holes/gaps/stilted perceptions in favor of a richer landscape.

Thank you for installing the update in my thoughts on the matter.

Richard

I have donated to the developers of "donation-ware" software that I use, but I do not have a positive feeling about donating to an advertising-supported website. If Chris eventually does drop the advertising, I probably will reverse my position.

99% of my interest in the site is the discussion forums, not Chris's reviews. The forums are valuable because of the free contribution of expertise by a large community. I feel like I contribute as much as I receive here, so I feel somewhat offended by being asked to pay for the privilege.

I realize that website hosting costs money, and Chris expended a lot of time to implement and manage the site. However, I expect that the advertising more than compensates for that, as evidenced by Chris's decision to drop his day job a year ago.

I have donated to the developers of "donation-ware" software that I use, but I do not have a positive feeling about donating to an advertising-supported website. If Chris eventually does drop the advertising, I probably will reverse my position.

 

99% of my interest in the site is the discussion forums, not Chris's reviews. The forums are valuable because of the free contribution of expertise by a large community. I feel like I contribute as much as I receive here, so I feel somewhat offended by being asked to pay for the privilege.

 

I realize that website hosting costs money, and Chris expended a lot of time to implement and manage the site. However, I expect that the advertising more than compensates for that, as evidenced by Chris's decision to drop his day job a year ago.

Bob - You're not being asked to pay for any privilege. Everything that was on CA last week is available free on CA now.

Please don't comment about my personal financial situation when you have absolutely no idea. You were also not involved in the conversations I had with my wife discussing what sacrifices we would make to help me run CA full time. Your comments are out of line.

I just joined the forces of subscribers and WOW.

It is so much faster and very nice and clean without the ads.

So why did I do it?

- I subscribe in recocnition of the countless overnighters Chris must have pulled to keep this baby ticking.

- I subscribe because full time involvement by Chris will keep CA valuable to us and newbies.

- I subscribe in gratitude for the help CA was in choosing and setting up my current rig.

- I subscribe because because i love hanging out with you guys in this clean environment.

I would love to see a discount for high-res surround material, say from itrax.com and 2L - the Nordic Sound.

I am impressed how the subscription kicked in instantly - very cool!

I just joined the forces of subscribers and WOW. It is so much faster and very nice and clean without the ads.

It is nice without the ads isn't it! Love it on my iPad.

Some of the comments here really make me wonder about people...

Some of the comments here really make me wonder about people...

Cryptic but a good laugh...you just need the CA baseball cap and all will be understood.

Cryptic but a good laugh...you just need the CA baseball cap and all will be understood.

Maybe that's what I am missing. Actually, I am going to get to that Paypal account and see if I can't get it working again, right now.

Chris

I will happily pay to belong to a sound subscriber site, even though the discount options will be of little use to me.

However, "sound" in my mind means appropriate "critical mass" in subscriptions. I am thus leaning (at this time) towards a 'wait and see' approach.

Chris, Are you able to keep us informed regarding subscriber numbers?

Many thanks

Frank

Some of the comments here really make me wonder about people...

Ah, the ultimate passive/aggressive. Anonymous passive/aggressive.

-Chris

Ah, the ultimate passive/aggressive. Anonymous passive/aggressive.

 

-Chris

I suppose you feel that my post was about you? It was more of a general statement with no particular person in mind, just humanity and our collective intelligence and reasoning skills, or lack thereof.