Headphones recomendations

[mandolinpoet]

I recently sold my home audio system because I have to go with a headphone setup with my current living arrangements. I am familiar with some home audio equipment but nothing in the usb dac, headphone amp, headphones area. I have been reading a lot of forums and reviews but none are helping me narrow down my search enough. So looking for recommendations. Here is what I'm focusing on so accurate recommendations can be made.

 

My budget is between 5k and 6k. Need HP amp, Headphones, DAC, Computer and interconnect.

 

Music preferences are

Some rock music - Red Hot Chili Peppers, Prince, Incubus, Coldplay

Light rock - Dave Matthews, Counting Crows, REM

Vocal Singer/Songwriter (this is the stuff I listen to most) Nora Jones, Jack Johnson, John Mayer, Jason Miraz, Nickel Creek.

Bluegrass (I listen to lots of bluegrass) Cherryholmes, Sam Bush, Alison Krauss & Union Station, Sierra Hull.

Some classical - (listen to classical more than rock) Tend to lean more towards classical pieces that have lots of horn, french horn, trumpet, baritones.

Country Music - Kenney Chesney, Keith Urban, Brad Paisley (more male vocalist than female in this category)

Jazz – (listen to lots of jazz) Dave Brubeck, Dizzy Gillespie. I have the Ken Burns Jazz Collection and listen to it often.

 

My system I just sold was a marantz cd player, rotel pre and amps, and B&W DM603 s3. Audioquest interconnects (ruby)

 

I know headphone listening is different but I will make comment on some home speakers in hopes of getting more accurate recommendations for headphones.

The B&W I owned had way to much slam, to aggressive.

Vanderstien 12s, love the midrange, bass was week, tweeter just a tiny bit to laid back. (just a tiny bit)

Magnapans. Listened to several different models at different times in my life and different places but from what I remember I really like the signature sound of the Magies.

Martin Logans - did not like. No synergy between the bass and electrostatic drivers.

Totem Model 1 - Listened to a long time ago but remember liking them.

 

I'm considering Beyerdynamic Tesla 1's, Said to be like the HD800's but more musical. Based on my listed music preferences and what I've said about home speakers above what other Headphones should I consider.

 

P.S. I don’t have anywhere near me to audition equipment. I have to go by what I learn online then purchase and audition in home.

 

 

[existentialhero]

You say you're looking for recommendations for

HP amp, Headphones, DAC, Computer and interconnect

 

There's a lot to think about here! Going in (mostly) reverse order:

 

• Interconnects aren't my specialty, but at the least should be left until you've picked the components they're connecting. Come back to this one.
   
  
• Since you say you're looking for a computer, I assume you're building a whole listening setup for a room that currently doesn't have a computer. (If there is a computer in the room where you want to listen, I'd recommend starting by using it, then moving to a dedicated rig later if you decide you need it. This will allow you to experiment before you invest.) The decision of what sort of computer to use hinges on a few considerations:
  
  
  Do you have an existing library of music files stored on another computer in your house? If so, you should consider a setup that allows you to access the files over the network. If not, you need a listening computer with enough storage to hold all your music.
  
  • Do you have a preference for operating system? Many folks around here are enthusiastic about Apple's OSX, for its tight integration with the popular iTunes software and relatively good access to the hardware. Others use setups based on Windows, like the C.A.P.S. favored by Chris Connaker, our host. I personally prefer Linux-based systems, since it allows me to run powerful music-playback software on very low-end hardware, but I'm already a Linux guy. If you're already familiar with one of these, using the same operating system on your listening machine will give you a familiar environment.
    
  • Do you have a preference for computer->DAC interface hardware? If you're planning to use USB, any of these operating systems and just about any hardware will do (although there are of course lots of tweaks and upgrades available). If you're hoping to use S/PDIF, you're again probably fine with anything, but you should be sure that either your computer includes an appropriate output or that you purchase and can install a card that has it. If you're hoping to use something more exotic like I²S, however, you'll need to consider your options carefully.
    

  Once you've thought out details like these, there are lots of knowledgeable folks around here who will be glad to help you put something together that suits your needs.

   

  [*]DAC selection is the subject of endless discussion and debate around here. Opinions differ wildly as to what features are important, what is the best computer->DAC interface, and what models have the best sound. My personal feeling is that, for a headphones-based system and assuming basic standards of quality are met, choice of DAC is more important than choice of headamp but much less important than choice of headphones, much the same way that speakers are the most telling component of a conventional system. Others will, of course, disagree. Without getting too deeply embroiled in this, I'll say that you should carefully consider whether you want a combined headamp/DAC or two separate units. Separates will allow you to tweak the selection of the two components separately and to upgrade either independently, but an integrated unit will give a cleaner signal path and may save you some money — although, with your budget, this may not be an issue.

   

  [*]Headphone amplifiers are a wild and confusing world. The most important consideration (other than basic standards of quality, of course) is that the amplifier has sufficient power to drive the headphones you choose; closely following this in significance is impedance matching. This is a complex topic, so I'll just refer you to an extensive blog post on the subject. If you're planning to go to the extreme high end of the headphone world, you may also want to look for a truly balanced headamp, although this will only matter if you have balanced headphones. Any pair of headphones can be recabled for balanced operation, however, if you're a DIY type. Just as with hi-fi amplification, you also need to consider whether you want solid-state or tube gear, which offer roughly the same characteristics in the headphone world.

   

  [*]Finally, and most importantly (in my book), comes the selection of headphones. In practice, your headphones choice will drive your headamp choice, which in turn may affect your DAC choice as well, so you should start here. As I mentioned above, the impedance of the headphones you select is critical, as it determines how much juice your amplifier needs to provide to drive them. If you select a pair with impedance in the tens of ohms, any commercial amplifier will have no trouble at all, and in fact you could probably drive such cans satisfactorily from a portable player. The Beyerdynamic cans you mention, however, have an impedance of 600?, which is high enough that it would be an important consideration. Most commercial amplifiers will be fine with such impedances, but certainly not all.

   

  In broad terms, modern external headphones (in-ear monitors or 'earbuds' are a whole other subject which I'm less familiar with) are divided into two classes, open and closed, based on whether the back of the earcup is acoustically opaque or transparent. Open cans are often praised for their faster response, more transparent sound, and bass clarify, but often have reducecd bass response compared to closed cans and, critically, do not isolate sound in either direction. Open headphones, therefore, are not suitable for noisy listening environments or for quiet shared spaces, since you can heard external sounds and everyone else can hear your music. Closed headphones, meanwhile, are able to isolate (some more than others, of course), typically offer improved bass response, tend to have a 'fuller' sound, and often have more perceived soundstaging, but these frequently come at the cost of some bass muddiness and a 'closed-in' quality to the sound. Lower-end closed headphones can sometimes even develop a 'singing-in-the-shower' quality as earcup resonances become excited. Of course, some models in each category break these molds. Discussion on sites like head-fi.org and head-case.org can help you get a sense of the characteristics of any given model.

 

And it seems that I've written a book. Sorry for the long read. I'll close with a few personal recommendations from my (admittedly extremely limited experience). I've been extremely happy with my current setup: Grado SR-80i headphones with an NFB-12 DAC/headamp from Chinese bespoke builder Audio-GD fed over USB. I do hope to upgrade the headphones to a higher-end Grado model sometime in the future, as mine tend to 'fill up' a bit with complex harmonic content like a Rachmaninoff piano prelude, but the overall sound of this setup is quite pleasing, and the NFB-12 has lots of power to spare and a sound that would work in headphones far higher up the ladder. Audio-GD's equipment is known for its overall neutrality, making it a good match for headphones whose sound signature already matches your preferences. Some reviewers suggest that, for example, the Beyerdynamic Teslas you mention when paired with Audio-GD equipment produce a sound slightly too analytic and cold for their tastes. Of course, tastes vary.

 

With your budget, you might consider picking up some entry-level phones from the big players like Grado, Audio Technica, AKG, or Sennheiser to start putting sounds to words. Listen to the phones, then read reviews, and see how what you like and don't like lines up with what people say. Diving into the top of the market without headphone experience is going to be a bit of a crap-shoot if you can't audition, but this would at least let you do a bit of an 'audition lite', and at the end you can probably get back most of what you spend on the used market, especially if you buy used phones to start (which has the added benefit of allowing you to avoid the break-in period and get straight to the real sound). Of course, things will be different once you have an amplifier, but most entry-level hi-fi phones have sufficiently low impedance to be driven by a decent portable source or computer sound card.

 

Also, I'm sure you've heard it plenty already, but if it's at all possible for you to audition gear live, even if you have to drive a hundred miles to do it, you really should. You don't want to regret a $6000 investment.

 

Good luck!

 

[Elysian]

I don't think you can go wrong with the T1 or HD800. I'd really recommend demoing the LCD2 Rev2 or HiFiMan HE-5, HE-500, or HE-6, particularly if you don't mind orthos. I was impressed with the LCD2 but I think the tonality is a hit-or-miss for people, and I didn't like how the headphones felt on my head (felt like a shark clamping down). I'm currently fully electrostat, but I'd probably go with the LCD2 or one of the HEs if I was building a dynamic setup.

 

If you go solid state, get a beta22 amp. The beta22 will be comparable with good $4-5k headphone amps, but will only cost $1.8-2.2k. If you're a DIYer, a lot of people have done phenomenal builds. Otherwise, you can get someone to make you one here: http://www.amb.org/audio/beta22/

 

A slightly more expensive amp option is the Headamp GS-X ($2500), but most reviews say it sounds almost identical to the beta22. A cheaper option is the GS-1 with DACT ($1050) which is almost as good. Both are very neutral, uncolored solid state amps. There are a lot of options for tubes if you roll that way.

 

If you're interested in electrostats, I'd get a used O2 MK1 (if you want something more neutral) or MK2 (if you prefer a more colored, analog sound). Given your budget, a Stax SR-323s might power the headphones well. The O2s require very specific amps for power, otherwise the sound will be thin and lacking. Another option is the Sennheiser HE60 with an appropriately matched amp. This option will probably run you $2.5-3k.

 

Either of these dynamic or electrostat setups will leave you $2.5-3kish for your DAC, computer, and cables, which should be plenty. I'm a PC person so I personally would just custom build a PC, since you can build an excellent LGA1155 Intel machine (i7-2600 or whatnot) at almost a third of the price of a comparably specced Mac. If you run Foobar2k with WASAPI off the motherboard, and you have identical output as the Mac bit-for-bit. There are a lot of excellent $1-2k dacs that use the Saber ESS9018 DAC, and Wolfson is another great standby. I'd use a W4S DAC2 ($1500) as your baseline and go +/- $500 that, since you don't want to skimp on your source. Chris' C.A.S.H list on CA is a great starting point for the tried-and-true standbys: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Suggested-Hardware-List

 

[AudioDoctor]

and add to it by saying the HD800s are plenty musical, they are as musical as the amp you plug them into. I have mine on my head right now, listening to Adele 19 and they sound absolutely wonderful. What the HD800s do, that no other headphone I have ever tried does, is remove the sound from inside my head and lay it out in front of/around me.

 

The Grace m903 is, IMO, one of the best options in your price range.

 

[Gobbledigook]

Have you checked out the guys over at http://www.headphone.com/ ?

They seem very passionate and knowledgeable, and they also have all the big brands.

One crucial aspect in this is one I overlooked, which is comfort. I bought my Stax Electrostatic headphones for the sound, and other reasons (they attach to the loudspeaker terminals of an amp, so you get the max sonic benefits from a normal amp) but the type I bought were uncomfortable for long sessions.

Bottom line is: try before you buy. You can read all the reviews you like to satisfy the content of your cranium, but they need to please its container and floppy appendages as well.

 

 

[seasalt55]

If you want a killer system that will fit on your desk; go with the Grados PS 1000 or the GS 1000 headphones, headphone amp/dac, try the Burson. Get you a mac mini or a macbook air and you have a killer system that will rival most high dollar home systems. Headphones and Burson amp/dac can be found at Moon Audio online. Good luck.

 

[bixby]

I agree with the Doctor. I have heard Senn 800 many times and almost always walked away saying, "What do people see in these things" They sounded thin sometimes, laid back at times, and hollow at times. And this all with well regarded amps. Best I ever heard the Senn 800s was with the Blue Hawaii amp. Truly magical. Lesson- the 800s require very careful amplification choice.

 

Another fave for me although I only heard briefly and again it requires careful amp matching is the LCD 2s. I liked them more than lots of Stax that I have heard and lots more than AKG 701 and 702s for example.

 

Good luck in your search. BTW- If you don't know about headfi maybe you should poke around there a bit, but be careful lots of inexperienced listeners post glowing reviews of almost anything.

 

[Elysian]

If you're going to go with the HD800s, you're going to need to power them appropriately, which means you're going to be looking at beta22-caliber amps. HD650 and HD800s will not sound good unless you have a quality amp. Meanwhile, Grados and LCD2s have much lower power requirements, so you can spend more on the source and less on the amp.

 

I demoed a RS1i and GS1000i and did not feel that they were worth x3-x6 the cost of a SR225i. They were nice headphones, but still had the signature Grado coloration and brightness, and did not impress me or the other person listening. We both felt the LCD2 Rev2 was superior.

 

Are you sure you're thinking about the Blue Hawaii? The Blue Hawaii is an electrostat amp.

 

HF has a lot of good information, but like bixby said, be aware of the reviewer's background.

 

[audiozorro]

Refer to the earlier CA thread for more info:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Smyth-Realizer

 

The other thing that you probably should consider above anything else is comfort. While the top of the line Stax, Grado, Senn, Beyers or AKG may sound excellent, they may not be comfortably for long listening sessions. Whereas I can listen to my speakers for 10-20 hours easily, I can usually only tolerate my headphones for a couple of hours.

 

 

[bixby]

@Elysian - thanks for catching that, my memory is going. It was not the Blue Hawaii, but rather the Eddie Current ZDT amp that I heard with the HD_800s and it did sound great. These amps are out of my price league so I do not know them very well, just that the ZDT made very nice music with the Senns.

 

And I am with you on the sound sig and relative value of the Grados, have not gone back to them since my lean SR-125s way back when I got my first non iem headphones. Since then I have owned about 10 different ones or so.

 

[mandolinpoet]

Ok, I should have been more specific in my details.

No Tubes - Don't want to have to change them, maintain.

DAC - USB connection, balanced output if possible but not necessary. Would like to be able to play High Res. files at native resolutions.

Headphones - Balanced is prefered, but if I find an amp w/o balanced output that I like I'm willing to go without balanced.

Computer - Yes this needs to be included. No extra comp laying around the house. Linux, Windows or Mac is fine. It will come down to which will give me the sound I'm looking for.

Amp - Balanced input-output prefered.

 

Sound - I don't like the word neutral. I'm NOT looking for "clear and detailed". The best way I can describe what I'm trying to obtain is a solid state sound with a slight nod towards the warm side without becoming so warm that it starts sounding like tubes. The best comparison that I can make is the Weiss DAC is to detailed and the Tranquility DAC is to warm. I want a sound that is in the middle.

 

As far as the Headphones go I mentioned the Tesla 1's because they are said to be slighly more musical and less analytical than the HD800's.

 

Hope this additional info helps narrow down (pinpoint) recomendations.

 

P.S. I know I need to audition before buying. I need to find out what I should audition before driving a hundred miles. Don't want to be stuck in a store trying to audition 100 headphones in a single weekend.

 

[AudioDoctor]

the Grace Design m903 fits your requirements completely.

 

[WarriorAnt]

Not too long ago I had to sell my long time rig. Out went the Krell, the Theta, the Classe Audio preamp.

 

 

In came the Wyred4Sound DAC-2, Violectric V200, Audeze LCD-2 r.2.

 

I'm really enjoying this rig.

 

[Bach Bird]

I agree on the LCD-2 recommendation. I like the wood case version:) http://www.headphones.com/Headphones/AUDEZ-E-LCD-2-Planar-Magnetic-Open-Back-Over-Ear-Headphones-w-Carribean-Rosewood-and-Wood-Presentation-Box-LCD-2-WB-68861.html

 

For amp recommendation I would go with the SPL Phonitor. It's a very versatile amp. The Silver one is better looking IMO, and it has the helpful bars unlike the black version: http://www.headphones.com/Headphones-Accessories/Sound-Performance-Lab-Phonitor-Headphone-Monitoring-Amplifier-in-Silver-2730-2730-69090.html

 

When I heard these two paired together with Bel Canto DAC III, it was probably the best sound I'd ever heard from any headphone or speaker.

 

Amazing!

 

[r1g]

You are talking about spending a lot of money on components you have never heard. I deal with a that you have probably heard of; The Cable Company/Ultra Systems. They have a loaner program where they take 5% of the retail price of the items they send you. They will send you a box with whatever you want to hear and keep it for about 2 weeks. The 5% is not refundable. They do, however, apply it to something you buy and it can go towards anything you want, not just what they send you. This way, you don't loose any money. It may sound like a pain, but I do it all the time and they make the whole process very easy and trouble free. I strongly recommend doing something like that so you don't have to guess and spend. (www.fatwyre.com) These guys are very knowlegable and are extremely honest and reputable. They are, by far, the best dealer I have ever use.

 

[jerico]

I have T1 and LCD2 (as well as Grado RS2i) and like to swap them around. I go back to the LCD2 every time though, and typically pretty quickly - even when I'm using a little portable amp and an iPod rather than my big headphone amp. Cheaper than the T1 too, IIRC.

 

The T1s are excellent cans, and they have a great big soundstage, but they sound... a little too "hifi" for my tastes. I find the LCD2 sound to be more natural and organic.

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I think 'zorro was shouting into the wind there, but honestly, you've truly never, ever heard anything like the Realizer. If you're a can man, or a man that can't stand cans, you're gonna flip over the Realizer.

 

I hate my headphones (AKG K-701). Ok, that's not exactly true, but the hyperbole drives the point across, so lemme pile on a bit. The headphones never fit quite right. The sound field never sounds quite right. Detail/retreival is fantastic (and some of the best I've heard), bass/mid-bass is a bit thin, even if everything else is pretty much spot on. In short, they were headphones, and good ones (especially for the price), but I couldn't help wonder what else was out there ....

 

So I tried some Stax, an SR-404 with a 006t amp. These phones are ugly! But the fit was like nothing else I'd tried (I must have an absurdly large head -- no comments from the peanut gallery, please) -- it was comfortable. Like wear-it-for-hours-and-hours comfortable. Sound quality was great -- good detail, wonderful sound, but ... it was still headphones. Head in a vise. No real depth to the sound stage. Not natural sounding.

 

Enter the Realizer.

 

At the risk of repeating what I wrote almost a year ago, I'll just repost the link:

 

It will blow your mind: a Date with the Smyth Realizer

 

The system isn't cheap. But if you're looking to drop some dough on a headphone-only system, there is nothing -- nothing -- out there that will sound like this. If I was ever going to dump my "main rig" in favor an all-headphone setup, this would be where I'd start. And I'm not sure I'd even notice the difference.

 

So, if you're in the market for new phones, take a few moments and think outside the can. I can't recommend the experience strongly enough.

 

[KDinsmore]

I like you and many others these days are headphone listeners because of "living arrangements", Wife, Wife+Kids....... These will set you free for sure. Because of Wife+Kids my listening experience with my home system of Mark Levinson and Dynaudio went from excellent to non-existent. Now I listen to music pretty much any time I want to and I am back to where I want to be listening.

 

I would get the Cavalli Liquid Fire amp for starters. Depending on your budget I would buy the Wyred4Sound DAC2 and the LCD2 (or 3's once the dust settles on those w/a few initial issues I believe solved now). If you have bigger bucks then add the Smyth Realizer and bigger bucks still you could go full electrostatic w/Stax 009's and the upcoming Cavalli Liquid Lightning. All this is file based playback which I switched over to last year and I might ad initially "kicking and screaming" This too will set you free to transition instantly with listening and is just incredibly great.

 

If you want to read enough to make you dazed and confused then go over to http://www.head-fi.org/ which is a never ending source of information about everything headphones. We are a group of enthusiasts that had reached a fever pitch!

 

I've had the T-1's. Wonderful but don't stack up the the Audeze LCD2.2's I own.

 

[esldude]

When I noticed the age of the post I deleted comments. Worth reading to hear about the Smyth Realizer though.

 

[dalethorn]

"Sound - I don't like the word neutral. I'm NOT looking for "clear and detailed". The best way I can describe what I'm trying to obtain is a solid state sound with a slight nod towards the warm side without becoming so warm that it starts sounding like tubes. The best comparison that I can make is the Weiss DAC is to detailed and the Tranquility DAC is to warm. I want a sound that is in the middle."

 

I've had Senn 800's, 650, 600, Grado PS500, Shure 1440/1840, a few others. The above paragraph sounds like a good description of the Grado PS500.

[mav52]

Bottom line is: try before you buy

best advice ever.

In the end only your ears can decide.

[brunk]

I recently sold my home audio system because I have to go with a headphone setup with my current living arrangements. I am familiar with some home audio equipment but nothing in the usb dac, headphone amp, headphones area. I have been reading a lot of forums and reviews but none are helping me narrow down my search enough. So looking for recommendations. Here is what I'm focusing on so accurate recommendations can be made.

 

My budget is between 5k and 6k. Need HP amp, Headphones, DAC, Computer and interconnect.

 

Music preferences are

Some rock music - Red Hot Chili Peppers, Prince, Incubus, Coldplay

Light rock - Dave Matthews, Counting Crows, REM

Vocal Singer/Songwriter (this is the stuff I listen to most) Nora Jones, Jack Johnson, John Mayer, Jason Miraz, Nickel Creek.

Bluegrass (I listen to lots of bluegrass) Cherryholmes, Sam Bush, Alison Krauss & Union Station, Sierra Hull.

Some classical - (listen to classical more than rock) Tend to lean more towards classical pieces that have lots of horn, french horn, trumpet, baritones.

Country Music - Kenney Chesney, Keith Urban, Brad Paisley (more male vocalist than female in this category)

Jazz – (listen to lots of jazz) Dave Brubeck, Dizzy Gillespie. I have the Ken Burns Jazz Collection and listen to it often.

 

My system I just sold was a marantz cd player, rotel pre and amps, and B&W DM603 s3. Audioquest interconnects (ruby)

 

I know headphone listening is different but I will make comment on some home speakers in hopes of getting more accurate recommendations for headphones.

The B&W I owned had way to much slam, to aggressive.

Vanderstien 12s, love the midrange, bass was week, tweeter just a tiny bit to laid back. (just a tiny bit)

Magnapans. Listened to several different models at different times in my life and different places but from what I remember I really like the signature sound of the Magies.

Martin Logans - did not like. No synergy between the bass and electrostatic drivers.

Totem Model 1 - Listened to a long time ago but remember liking them.

 

I'm considering Beyerdynamic Tesla 1's, Said to be like the HD800's but more musical. Based on my listed music preferences and what I've said about home speakers above what other Headphones should I consider.

 

P.S. I don’t have anywhere near me to audition equipment. I have to go by what I learn online then purchase and audition in home.

 

Your dreams into reality for $6k

 

Beyerdynamic T1 + Zeus Hex24 OCC Copper 6 x 24 AWG - WW Silver XLR (True Balance) 6ft $1734.00

Woo Audio WA22 balanced headphone amplifier $1,900

Violectric DAC V800 $1,299

Audiophileo 2 $579

Apple Mac Mini $479

 

This is a highly synergistic setup that will blow you away. I'd like to see somebody else post better for $6k lol! This is a fully balanced setup, including a Mac mini and USB-SPDIF converter.

 

 

[dalethorn]

That T1 balanced system does sound like a dream system. Gets my vote.

[brunk]

That T1 balanced system does sound like a dream system. Gets my vote.

 

Indeed, thank you

[bloggy]

If you want a killer system that will fit on your desk; go with the Grados PS 1000 or the GS 1000 headphones, headphone amp/dac, try the Burson. Get you a mac mini or a macbook air and you have a killer system that will rival most high dollar home systems. Headphones and Burson amp/dac can be found at Moon Audio online. Good luck.

I agree with you seasalt55. I have Grado PS1000 myself and I love it. Plenty ok details. On the downside, they are HEAVY.