My recent experience with the new AMD 7000 series processors and related motherboards

[lmitche]

In searching through AS, unless I have missed something, there has been almost no discussion of the AMD 7000 ZEN4 series CPUs and motherboards released 10 months ago. This post is to share my recent experience with the new AMD 7000 series processors and related motherboards.

 

Some background - for years my "best sounding" machine has been a 10 core, Intel 4.7GHz CPU with 19.245MB cache, using a X299 motherboard with 64gb of quad channel memory running at 3600mhz, along with 2 PCIE3 cpu direct NVME drives, one for the OS and one for music storage. This machine runs Roon on Audiolinux with the custom kernel option. This means that the Linux kernel is compiled with a microarchitecture aware compiler, (Clang/LTO) for the Cascade Lake series CPU. The resulting kernel lowers power consumption and temperature and makes an audible difference in SQ.

 

Great care needs to be taken to keep this Intel processor from running at full throttle and within the limits of a fanless rig. Once configured SQ is terrific.

 

It should be said that this machine runs Roon bit-perfect straight out of the box, with no upsampling with Roon or Hqplayer. For the exception of offline solutions like PGGB, I have never heard a real-time upsampling algo that beats bit-perfect playback.

 

Always on the lookout for the next thing, the 8 core AMD 7700 65 watt, (90 max) CPU, using a b650 motherboard with 4 sticks of 16 gb DDR5 memory running at 6000mhz (almost double the 3600mhz rate above), 5.3GHz processor clock speeds, direct to CPU PCIE 4 and 5 NVME drives was too tempting to ignore. A prototype machine was built.

 

Would the increase in clock speed, memory and PCIE speeds improve SQ? Yep.

 

Months later, having tested many different hardware and configurations, the resulting music server is the "new" best sounding machine built here. SQ is at a new level with improved transients, better low and high end extension, increased depth, and razor sharp imaging across the full range of rock, jazz and classical recordings. The image has a new level of density across the spectrum so hidden details are now audible, creating the next level of presence in a natural and engaging way.

 

The AMD 7700 is one of a family of ZEN4 processors. Unfortunately, at this time the Clang/LTO compiler for ZEN4 is not ready, so this server runs a ZEN3 custom kernel version of Audiolinux. Expectations are that the ZEN4 Clang/LTO release will be released in the fall of 2023, so a further improvement in SQ is anticipated.

 

Note - The machine runs cool, with the CPU package consuming about 30 watts of power during playback avoiding the need for megawatt power supplies.

 

The resulting sound quality is just magical.

 

I look forward to hearing more about the experience of other AS members with the new AMD 7000 series. 

Larry

[lmitche]

10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

How did you get 4 sticks of DDR5 RAM to clock higher than 3600mhz?

 

Reading the experience of other builders, I too was apprehensive about getting 4 sticks of DDR5 to play together.

 

It should be said that DDR4 sticks can be purchased in lots of 2 or 4 sticks that are matched and designed to work together. For DDR5 there are no QVL listings for 4 sticks anywhere to found, only paired sticks.

 

Experience tells me that installing ram pairs in paired slots ensures that the matched set at least share the same channel.  This has eliminated any issues with 4 sticks of DDR5 on multiple ZEN4 builds.

 

BTW, 6000mhz is said to be the ram speed "sweet spot" for the AMD 7000 series.

[lmitche]

18 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

You still didn't say how you managed to get 4 sticks to 6000mhz.

Do you have a question about some other technical aspects of the 4 stick DDR5 memory installation process?

[lmitche]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:21 PM, AudioDoctor said:

 

Considering no one else on the planet has been able to accomplish this, I am curious to know how you did it.

Based your response, I looked around and do see others have had issues with 4 sticks on AMD, but others have got it working.

 

Two things:

 

1) My AMD/DDR5 motherboards are set to always run full memory training, making 6000mhz reliable with 4 sticks. Boots times are long, >1 min <2 mins, but always complete successfully.

 

2) The DDR5 DIMM connectors are new and finicky, and re-seating DIMMs when there are training problems seems to help.

[lmitche]

16 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

edit: I have this exact kit:  https://www.gskill.com/product/165/393/1665020366/F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5N

Thats interesting . . . what bios are you running on your ASUS Hero x670E motherboard?

[lmitche]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:37 PM, AudioDoctor said:

 

I have an Asus X670E Pro Art because it has a 10GB port.

 

You still haven't answered my question. You answer mine, I'll answer yours.

Really?

 

Perhaps something in this picture will help you.

 

[lmitche]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:06 AM, yamamoto2002 said:

I did read the specifications and avoided 4 DIMM configuration, for it should be somewhat slower than 4 DIMM and 96GB should be enough for my workloads. But in the future, if memory exhausts and computer starts thrashing, I do not hesitate to add another 96GB

 

IMO 16GB x2 is better than 16GB x 4 for this CPU

In generally, across Intel and AMD product lines, without fully populated memory slots it is difficult to achieve the kind of "liquid" sound quality that so many of us hope to obtain.

 

This is a shame as memory is expensive.

[lmitche]

10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

That board has zero EXPO 4 stick combos in its QVL, according to ASUS.

Agreed, the QVL of the B650 motherboard used here does not indicate support for 4 DDR5 sticks. Yet it works.

 

BTW, sometime during my research into the AMD 7000 series a ROG STRIX X670E-E GAMING WIFI motherboard was acquired with the intention of testing SQ to learn if the upgrade was worth double the cost of the b650 motherboard. A CPU and 4 memory sticks that had been previously stable in an AMD B650 motherboard were used for this test.  After 8 hours of changing bios settings, and trying various bios releases without success, I gave up on getting 4 sticks to play nicely and returned the motherboard to the vendor.

 

Also, as shown above, this server is using 4 x 16gb DDR5 sticks for a total of 64 GBs. These are based on the old "power of 2" memory size multiples. The new 24gb, 48gb DDR5 multiple DDR5 sticks need a bios update that includes AGESA version to Combo AM5 PI 1.0.0.7.a. at least according to ASUS.

 

Note - Call me old fashioned but having spent months of my life staring at a digital logic analyser to debug an Intel cpu, any memory stick not sized by the power of 2 is suspect.

 

[lmitche]

Here some Reddit threads of others that have successfully booted AMD 7000 series with 4 sticks of DDR5 at 6000mhz.  These threads also include some bios settings that have works for others.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/zy530w/comment/jjfqlld/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/yto6oy/filling_all_4_ram_slots_on_am5/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/zy530w/getting_4_sticks_of_ddr5_6000_to_work_at_full/

[lmitche]

A Hdplex 500W GaN AIO(All-In-One) ATX Power Supply has just arrived. It will be interesting to hear how it sounds powering the AMD 7000 rig.

 

Stay tuned.

[lmitche]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:15 PM, yamamoto2002 said:

I've been using my PC for one month. There is a BIOS update and XMP training takes longer time. It takes a few minutes to show initial BIOS screen when XMP parameter is changed.

 

It seems my 2 sticks of DDR5-5600 memory is unstable with 5600MHz. Decided to disable XMP and set DRAM clock to 4800MHz. Since then the PC runs without troubles so far.

Did you look at the Reddit posts that were shared above?

 

Others have found the bios parameters that fix the long post issue and 4 stick problems.

[lmitche]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:38 AM, lmitche said:

A Hdplex 500W GaN AIO(All-In-One) ATX Power Supply has just arrived. It will be interesting to hear how it sounds powering the AMD 7000 rig.

 

Stay tuned.

 

OK, so the Hdplex 500W GaN AIO(All-In-One) ATX Power Supply break-in period is complete. After several long listening tests, as a starting point power supply for a new build, this solution is the best that I have found.

 

The blackground, imaging and spectral range all compare favorably to my Hdplex 300 watt supply powering a Hdplex 400 watt DC-ATX. Best yet the music is truly enjoyable with great pace and rhythm.

 

The only thing missing is a level of harmonic detail (AKA warmth) that adds a sense of cohesion and flow to the music, (some would say a liquid sound), delivered by the linear power supply.

 

Nevertheless, this is the best sounding SMPS ATX power supply ever heard here, and there have been dozens of others.

[lmitche]

12 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

@lmitche did you have a chance to try a good quality ULPS (and well burned-in, as these things really need at least 4-5 months) with the Taiko DC to DC ATX? I guess not given the comment above. 

This is my golden standard for powering up an audio computer these days. I haven't seen anything coming even remotely close. 

 

Good to hear you like those AMDs. 

@nenon To be clear, my experiment here was to find the best relatively inexpensive (<$200) power supply for someone starting from scratch. For some people, budgets mean that the cost of investing in a new music server will take some compromise. Rather than compromise on the server sound quality (SQ), many people prefer an inexpensive power supply to start. The goal is to purchase a music server that will later scale up in SQ once the funds for a better power supply are available.

 

 

Within this context, the Hdplex 500W GaN AIO(All-In-One) ATX Power Supply offers the best sounding low-cost solution tested here. My prior solution was OK, but no where near the musical performance possible with the new Hdplex AIO supply,

 

As to your question about my experience with the Taiko DX-ATX and ULPS. After much effort, including a ULPS rebuild, the AMD Ryzen 7000 builds will not boot with the Taiko supply powered with an ULPS. I do not know why.

 

• Intel builds boot with the Taiko/ULPS pair and sound better than any other power solution tested on Intel servers.
• AMD Ryzen 7000 builds will boot with an 800 watt Hdplex DC-ATX/ULPS and beats the SQ of the Intel servers with the Taiko/ULPS.

Unfortunately, there is no way to listen to the Taiko/ULPS pair and the AMD server.

 

If you know someone with a well burnt in Taiko DC-ATX/ULPS pair that can lend one, I will be happy to try again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lmitche]

On 8/26/2023 at 2:26 PM, RGBK said:

Can I ask if that possibly happens to be the Asus ROG Strix B650E-E?

(That MB seems have if not top so at least ok power handling for being B650E, and have 3 (PCIe 5.0) direct to CPU connections/lanes from the CPU. 2 PCIe, 1 M.2)

I have zero experience with a B650E-E motherboard. Nevertheless, once booted, power draw rarely exceeds 40 watts during music playback unless you are upsampling with Hqplayer,.

[lmitche]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:18 AM, RGBK said:

Thanks Larry, but my question was really about which specific Asus MB that actually could run 4 pieces of ddr5 at 6000MHz?

 

My comments within parenthesis was just my thoughts on a specific MBs power handeling and direct to CPU PCIe communication. I am aware that all 650 MBs can handle 65W TDP CPUs.

 

Best regards RGB

My point was merely that I have no experience with B650E motherboards. I expect any B650 motherboard will run 4 pieces of DDR5 at 6000mhz. My only other experience is with X670E motherboards which failed to run at 6000mhz.