The high end server conundrum...

[Billy_SP]

I know the answer to this is very relative, and there are the diminishing returns, etc. vs a turn key solutions.

I do not criticize who took the high end server route and can afford it.  Actually I can, but not sure how much better sound can be.  No chance for testing at home in Brazil.  Need to import and with the taxes here, it is MSRP + freight + 65% taxes.  I am not prepared for such an expensive leap of faith.

 

I have nothing but admiration for Grim, Taiko, Antipodes, etc, but a server is quite expensive and it can be too old after 5 years.  Speakers, cables and amps can last much longer and remain competitive.  You may say that DACs are expensive and after 5 years they may be too inferior, but even though cheap DACs are better than ever, they are not close enough to higher end DACs, so we cannot get away from investing in good DACs.  Computers on the other hand.... can be tweaked with external power supplies, good DDCs and external clocking.  That makes the cost of replacing the PC itself much lower.

 

I do 100% streaming Qobuz and local files.  I have an Innuos Zenith MK3 with an Audio-GD DI20HE plus a very good external clock, going to a very high resolving system and network for audio. Gave up on Roon playing from external cores and playing from the Innuos because no matter the config, I could notice the sound degradation Vs using the Innuos with the Sense App.

 

So, if you are still with me here, thank you.  What is your opinion?  If I go to an Antipodes K50/Olandra, will it be significantly better sound quality than the Innuos with DDC and external clocking?  How long can this new server remain competitive?

[Iving]

If you're not an upsampling fetishist / heavy duty HQPlayer user - then I can see your point about expensive servers and obsolescence vs. investment in a good DAC.

 

I still use a 6th gen Intel cpu upsampling Red Book x 4 (to 176) in HQPlayer ... cpu load < 10% ... I have a great power supply ... plus being offline (main difference wrt you) I go optical out of the PC (local playback on Dante) ... to Pro Audio DAC via reclocker which is also WC in turn on 10 MHz external clock ... completely happy.

 

Server frontier and HQPlayer frontier march hand in glove. I'd only ever "upgrade" my PC if I went the upsampling route.

 

Also with older PC low power/low noise argument. Plus use stripped back W10 on a simpler machine etc.

 

Look fwd to your decisions ...

[Rovo]

@Billy_SP

I am sorry to have to disappoint you. I am one that has taken the plunge of the high end server route ("heavy" HQPlayer upsampling). And I tell you that what Romaz, Austinpop, Nenon and others have writen is true. It requires a lot of perseverance (and money 😀), but the (end?) result is worth while. 

[Billy_SP]

28 minutes ago, Rovo said:

I am sorry to have to disappoint you

Don't worry about that.  I just want to listen and learn from everybody's experience.  I also know experiences are relative to many things like current set up, tastes and habits.  By the way, I used to be an oversampling freak, but after keeping an open mind and exploring the NOS camp, I have found some good things here too.

 

I did not make the question hoping to justify my current configuration, actually I am questioning everything.  This is how I learn and make decisions.  Experimenting, learning, asking questions, adapting and changing my mind are part of the discovery, and I love that part of the hobby too, besides of course, enjoying the music.

[MarcelNL]

Build one, so you can upgrade parts over the years (progress is not THAT fast)?

power is king, so is CPU power...DIy probably saves you a bundle when comparing to buying off the shelf unless computer parts are also taxed at 65% (WOW)

[Billy_SP]

16 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

Build one,

Seriously considering.  Parts can go up to 100% in taxes, but  I can hand carry them back when visiting US on biz trips.  Ship to hotel is my strategy.  Still debating, as I don't like the hazzle of upsampling. I mostly stream or play files stored on my NAS.

 

Perhaps a glorified NAS/player from Melco is the answer for me? I dont like to deal with monitors, mouses and OS for music.  I like to control from a remote like a tablet or phone.  Choices, choices!

[MarcelNL]

a server does not have to upsample, I use mine strictly for redbook and streaming, no screen mouse etc as Daphile is controlled via a remote like tablet or phone.

[PeterG]

Depends almost completely on the rest of your system.  My Blusound Node is great on my $3000 system (Bifrost, NAD, B&W), but not even worth listening to on my Yggy/McIntosh/Wilson system

[Billy_SP]

I stream Qobuz or play redbook mostly.  My network has fiber, Finisar SFPs, two audio switches in cascade with external power supplies and clocks.  My player gets a very clean ethernet.   Its an Innuos Zenith MK3, that goes out through USB to the best DDC from Audio-GD, also with a very good external clock, that reclocks and clean the USB, and then changes the signal to different digital ports into my DAC.  AES/EBU and Coaxial sound amazing, pending to test i2s.

 

The rest of my system is a Verity Audio Monsalvat Pre2 (Pre + DAC), MBL N15 mono blocks and MBL 116 speakers.

 

Once got rid of Roon everywhere (external core or in the Innuos), playing the Sense App from the Innuos server to the DDC, the sound is great. No oversampling is sounding very good.

 

So the cost of my system can justify an Antipodes Oladra, but given the fact that I am doing mo DSP or upsampling, will it sound thousands of dollars better than my current server + DDC configuration,  or am I already close enough?  I cannot decide yet.

[tedwoods]

You can have a look at the Innuos Pulse series: https://innuos.com/pulse-series/

 

[Rovo]

I made the choice of getting the best out of my T+A DAC 8 DSD, so oversampling to DSD512. As Nenon explained some time ago, you can make different choices. Do you only stream, do you play only local files? And also important is your choice of DAC for what you need to do with your server(s). These choices will decide which path to follow. And what I said "I do not want to disappoint you", is that improving upon the path you have choosen is worth while. The improvements will be smaller and smaller, but at the same time be clearer to hear. So my advice would be to choose the path you want to follow and continue along this path as far as you want (still enjoy, have the money for it). 

[MarcelNL]

I went to Munich HighEnd to 'calibrate' the status of consumer digital, I was not overwhelmed by the Innuous, one thing I need to clarify, I have no clue what it uses or what it's price tag is. 

My DIY server was a costly path, also because I wanted to hear what makes a server sing but even without the sunk cost for R&D I estimate it would cost something like 8-10KEuro to build one from scratch with all new parts. Beauty of DIY is that you can tap into the gamers market place for used CPU's and MoBo, The Solarflare x2522 pops up on the bay regularly for reasonable prices so you can stay under the price range I mentioned but it's still a costly effort , YET it's well worth it.