T+A DAC 200

[OE333]

Due to the current shortage of electronic and aluminum parts DAC 200 production output at T+A is quite low at the moment. Furthermore the demand for this model is overwhelming and much higher than expected. 

So currently there is a significant backlog in deliveries and it might be hard to find any demo devices at dealers.

 

T+A is sorry for any delays and is working hard to improve the situation.

 

[OE333]

21 hours ago, Miska said:

I think HA 200 is the same as DAC 200, but HA 200 is optimized for it's headphone outputs while DAC 200 is optimized for the line outputs.

 

The digital section of HA200 and DAC200 including the D/A converters is identical.

 

Differences between both devices are in the analog domain and power supply.

 

HA200 has a discrete high current Class-A output amplifier to drive any kind of headphones through 3 outputs (6.3mm, Pentaconn, XLR). Additionally it has some headphone specific features such as cross-feed, tone control, selectable output impedance etc.

Power supply is 15 Watt SMPS for the digital part, 100 Watt double torodial linear PS for the analog section.

 

The DAC200 analog section is also of discrete construction with balanced (XLR) and unbalanced (RCA) outputs.

Power supply is 15 Watt SMPS for the digital part, 50 Watt single torodial linear PS for the analog section.

 

Volume control in both devices is done in the analog domain using T+A's "Logarithmic Świtched Resistor Ladder" with hermetically sealed gold contact relays and high precision Vishay resistors.

 

 

[OE333]

23 hours ago, Rovo said:

@OE333

As we have all learned here at Audiophile Style power supplies are very important for the sound quality. For my PC's feeding my DAC I have upgraded the power supplies several times. Currently using the Taiko DC-DC ATX plus Nenon v3 ULPS. Each time with a clear sound improvement. Being an owner of a T+A DAC 8 from 2013/2104 and later off a T+A DAC 8 DSD, I now wonder if an upgrade of the power supply of the T+A DAC 8 DSD is worth while and possible? On advice of Mark Coles of Sablon I have already upgrade the IEC connection and the wires to the PC board with a nice and noticable sound improvement. OE333 your advice would be appreciated. 

 

I'll be happy to share my thoughts about this but as your question relates to DAC8DSD maybe your post should be moved to the DAC8DSD thread before ?

 

[OE333]

Yes, I can confirm that DAC200 and HA200 fully support Linux based USB sources.

PCM up to 768 and native DSD up to 1024.

 

[OE333]

2 hours ago, h128 said:

I would guess that it indicates headphone output. I set mine to variable mode so I've never seen that.

That is correct.

 

In VARIABLE output mode the volume adjustment affects both the preamp outputs (RCA and XLR) and the headphone output.

In LINE mode the volume attenuartor for the RCAS/XLR outputs is bypassed but the volume of the headPHOne output can still be adjusted by the volume knob (and the IR remote control).

That the volume adjustment is still active for the headphone output is indicated by the "PHO" on the display.

[OE333]

If your computer is capable of upsampling/converting to DSD 1024 you normally can choose if you want to use a direct USB connection between computer and DAC or if you want to go via ethernet -> NAA -> USB.

The NAA option is best suited if you have a long distance between computer and DAC. If your computer is located close to The DAC (less than 3 meteres) the direct USB connection should work perfectly.

An additional benefit of the ethernet/NAA variety might be that ethernet brings an additional galvanic isolation between your audio domain (i.e. DAC&AMP) and the IT (network&computer) domain....

My recommendation: try both and see what works best for you.

 

If on the other hand your computer is not capable of upconverting to DSD1024 then neither direct USB nor ethernet/NAA will work.

[OE333]

12 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Is the built in NAA only on the 39,000 dollar HV whatever?

 

Why not use an external NAA ?

A RK3399 or RK3328 based SBC and DietPi might be a good starting point...

[OE333]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Fund a typo on the T+A DAC200 page :~)

 

The real story is that I'm listening today, blown away by the DAC200, and researching how T+A is managing to obtain this high level of performance. The stumbled upon the typo.

 

I'm also willing to bet the DAC200 handles 705.6 kHz, rather than stopping at 354.8 kHz (also a typo) for the 44.1 clock. Just a guess. (OK, just tasted it. 705.6 works fine.)

 

 

Dear Chris,

 

thank you for pointing out these typos on the T+A website.

And yes, you are absolutely correct: the DAC200 doesn't stop at 352.8 kSps, it can handle PCM 705.8 kSps signals as well.

 

 

[OE333]

4 hours ago, rom661 said:

Quick question - Dave told me today (he's not been there long) that there is a way to control the filter selection from an app.

 

Filters can be controlled in the following ways:

1.) Front panel buttons

2.) IR remote control

3.) IOS or Android APP through MP200 (DAC200 can not be controlled from an APP directly, MP200 needed !)

4.) RS232 (CTRL socket on the rear panel)  If anybody is interested in the RS232 control protocol, just let me know.

 

[OE333]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:51 PM, jrsub said:

I am having an issue with my T+A DAC 200 where intermittently the left channel volume is suddenly reduced resulting in the center image shifting to the right and staying there.  I use the DAC 200  with an Aurender N200 music server and run the DAC 200 in variable mode to my  Audio Reseach LS28SE preamp.  

 

I use variable mode at -22 on the DAC 200 otherwise the high gain on my preamp limits my volume range.  When the channel problem occurs  I can only resolve the issue by physically unplugging the DAC 200 unit,  or switching the DAC 200 from variable to fixed output mode.  Power cycling any of the other components or even the DAC200 using the front power button when the problem is happening does not resolve the issue.   I can run the system for a day or two without the issue and then all of a sudden the problem occurs.

 

I spoke with my dealer and they are thinking that the DAC 200 should only be used in fixed output mode when using an external  preamp.     I  find that strange as it seems like using variable volume control is a common DAC feature for the very reason I use it.    However,  maybe that is how the T+A unit is designed and I am in fact using it in a different way than intended. 

 

Is anybody else using the DAC 200 in variable output mode to an external preamp successfully?

 

Thoughts?

 

I personally would prefer the fixed output mode when using the DAC together with a pre-amp, because this avoids to have two volume control stages in series.

But if the high gain of your pre-amp does not allow this, then it is of course possible to use the DAC200 in variable output mode together with your pre-amp. This is absolutely a very normal use case.

 

The issue you describe could result from a faulty relay or resistor in the DACs volume control section.

Does the problem go away if you turn the volume down to minimum and then up again ?

If this is the case this would be a strong hint to a faulty relay...

 

 

[OE333]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:49 PM, jonniema said:

Quick question though and as this might be helpful for others too:

Has anyone been able to perform a firmware upgrade to the DAC? Hope it is not limited to be performed by t+a support like the HV seems to be…

 

 

The DAC200/HA200 firmware can be updated with the help of a T+A MP200 streamer. The MP200 will download the latest DAC200 firmware from the internet and then it will update the DAC200. This is the easiest, safest and recommended way to update the DAC's firmware.

 

If you don't have a MP200 at hand, maybe you could ask your T+A dealer to do the update for you.

 

There is also a way to do the update without MP200  from a Windows PC using a special T+A programming adaptor (USB -> T+A E2Link adaptor).

 

Theoretically such a USB->E2Link adaptor could be built as a DIY project, but any attempt of a DIY firmware update with some home-brew programming adaptor would mean a BIG risk of bricking the DAC.  For this reason I really strongly recommend to use a MP200 for the update - or to ask the T+A support or your T+A dealer/importer to perform the update.

 

[OE333]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:44 PM, jonniema said:

 

BTW. Would the same apply for the P3100HV and PS3000HV? I.e.: if i connect an MP3100HV it updates the others?

 

Wishful thinking to T+A… although i do acknowledge this process is super clean, it is somewhat limited to whoever owns an MP (or asking the dealer to help with a unused/in-stock unit). I do wish there was a simple pc executable to update the DAC200 via USB.

 

 

 

 

Yes, the same is true for all T+A series including HV: the streamer can update all other T+A devices connected to it.

A FW update with this method is done in a couple of minutes and it is absolutely safe.

 

And as I mentioned in my post, there is a way to update the firmware from a (Windows) PC.

Currently this method is limited to T+A service workshops because if anything goes wrong, it could brick the device and make it necessary to send it to a T+A service point for recovery.

If there is a common interest in doing FW updates from a PC I could discuss this topic with T+A to see what is possible...

 

[OE333]

12 hours ago, jrsub said:

 Now back in variable mode, I ran  the volume to lowest level and back up and the problem went away.

 

This points to the volume control as cause for the problem.

 

Would it be possible to run the DAC in Fixed Mode for a couple of days to see if the problem also occurs in fixed mode ?

If the problem does NOT occur in fixed mode,  it would mean that we can be pretty sure that the cause of the issue is the volume control.

 

[OE333]

3 minutes ago, jonniema said:

 

I would certainly be very interested in such update method as i use a pc for upsampling and streaming.

 

 

I will see what I can do...

[OE333]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:59 AM, Allan F said:

I don't know if I am imagining things or not. Has anyone else noticed a difference between the sound of the latest T+A Windows driver, ver. 2.24.0.0, and the earlier ver. 1.13.0.0? I don't know what changes have been made, or if those changes can affect the sound. Although both sound great, I think I may prefer the earlier version. I am running HQPlayer v.3 Desktop on a Windows 10 Pro PC, automatically upsampling to either DSD512 or PCM768.

 

Hi Allan,

 

I'm not sure where you found the above DAC200 driver version numbers - could you please give me a hint ?

 

The current Windows driver for the DAC200 has the version number  V 5.40.0.

You can download this latest version from the T+A website or directly from here:   https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/TA_3rd_Gen_USB_audio_driver.zip

 

 

 

[OE333]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:50 PM, Allan F said:

Are there particular technical reasons for updating to the latest USB driver? Or. perhaps the better question is: are there negative implications in sticking with the earlier USB driver version? I am aware that updating to the latest version is normally recommended. The reason I ask is that on my system my subjective impression, FWIW, is that I think I slightly prefer the sound of v5.30.0. Thank you in advance for your interest and assistance.

Regards, Allan

 

Hi Allan,

you can stick to the v5.30.0 version if you like. This has no negative implications.

The driver is (and was) always very stable through all the time. The reason for new driver versions is normally that new devices come on the market and need to be included in the driver. So there is absolutely no need for updating the driver in your case.

 

Best,

Lothar

[OE333]

20 hours ago, jrsub said:

 

 I  noticed this comment in the manual:

 

 I mentioned that I once accidentally turned off the DAC 200 while it was still being fed music which resulted in the same problem with the left channel volume as when the problem appeared while I was actively listening.  This action is exactly what is warned about in the manual.   

 

So what I wonder is that when I had the problem initially where it would play okay for a long period of time and then lose volume in the left channel,  could this simply have been a delayed manifestation of me accidentally disrupting the USB connection or powering off the unit while I was first installing the unit?   I am now going to continue running the unit  in variable mode for a few days to see if the issue occurs knowing that I have not done any action described in the manual warning about the USB connection. 

 

OEM333,  I  did forward my issue description to my dealer who then contacted T+A to see how they want to handle the issue.   Not sure how you are aligned with the support team but you may hear from them.   I appreciate your help with my issue.

 

 

The warning in the manual to not disconnect the USB during operation was put into the manual because the disconnection of the USB link in some cases could crash the player software on the PC. There are some players that even need a re-boot of the PC to recover from an interruption of the USB connection.

 

Disconnecting the USB connection has absolutely no impact on the DAC200 - the DAC will just notice the interrupted USB connection and it will then mute the output signal. After re-inserting the USB cable, and restarting the player software on the PC everything should be back to normal operation. So don't worry about the DAC - disconnecting the USB cable can not cause any harm.

 

Regarding the volume issue: All your observations point to the volume control as the root of the evil.

I will discuss this matter with my former colleagues from the T+A service dept. and give them a few hints.

 

Regards,

Lothar

 

 

[OE333]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:52 PM, jonniema said:

After a listening session i always turn DAC off and leave NUC running. The next time i want to listen i turn the DAC on and when press play on Roon UI it just ends up flying by all songs on the playlist/album until it says “nothing playing” as it cannot get control of the DAC.

 

To get it back to play i need to go to device setup on Roon, change any option and save.

 

Is your Roon Server NUC running on Linux or Windows ?

I would like to reproduce this problem and see if I can find out anything.

But please give me a couple of days because currently I am very busy...

 

[OE333]

There is good news about the PC based firmware update for the DAC200.

T+A is willing to support this and they will offer the required USB -> E2Link  programming adaptor through the T+A webshop.

 

I will give an update on this topic as soon as all details are clear.

[OE333]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:52 PM, jonniema said:

I want to thank @OE333 for the tip. I updated the DAC200 via an MP200 (i was lucky, it was the only one in stock on my dealer and it was already sold to be picked up the next day!) 😅 JIT

 

Also would like to ask if anyone else is experiencing problems with Roon not being able to play songs after turning DAC off and on.

 

(playing via ASIO driver in native mode with DSD512 upsampling…)

 

Here’s what happens…

After a listening session i always turn DAC off and leave NUC running. The next time i want to listen i turn the DAC on and when press play on Roon UI it just ends up flying by all songs on the playlist/album until it says “nothing playing” as it cannot get control of the DAC.

 

To get it back to play i need to go to device setup on Roon, change any option and save.

 

I suspect this is a Roon issue and already reported, but they might be overwhelmed with requests and no answers still.

 

Tks

 

Hi @jonniema,

I have investigated this problem yesterday and iI think it is more a roon related problem. It seems, that under certain circumstances, roon does not realize, that the USB connection to the DAC device is lost.

As you have also posed your question in the roon community forum, I have posted a more detailed reply to your case there. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/t-a-dac-200-thread/172007/18

 

I have also contacted my colleagues at T+A (and roon) and I will let you know what they found out after the X-mas holidays in January.

 

[OE333]

13 hours ago, Allan F said:

Until recently, I have left my DAC 200 on all the time. I decided to try using either ECO mode or manually turning the unit off, both of which I believe are supposed to place the DAC 200 in Standby mode.

 

I play all my music with HQ Player installed on my music server PC. It was my understanding that initiating playback was supposed to send a signal to the DAC 200 to activate it from Standby mode. However, this is not taking place regardless of whether I start playback via HQP from my music server PC or remotely via HQPD player. In order to initiate playback, I first have to manually turn on the DAC 200 and reboot my PC.

 

I don't know if this is a DAC 200 issue, an HQ Player issue, or a lack of understanding on my part.  Obviously, I can eliminate the problem by simply leaving the DAC 200 on all the time, but I would like to know why things are not working as I believe they should.

 

It is neither a DAC issue nor a HQP issue.

The DAC200 needs to be switched ON manually - either by the front power button or by remote control. There (currently) is no automatic Switch-ON function triggered by the incoming music signal. Also the PC or HQP do not "send a signal" to switch the DAC ON.

 

Please note: When switched OFF the DAC is really off, not just in a standby state with darkened display but lots of circuitry still running. To save energy (as required by the European "EuP" regulations, only a minimalistic reactivation logic is kept running.

[OE333]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:17 PM, Allan F said:

I have to comment on T+A's excellent customer service. After writing to them and receiving a reply describing the differences between Windows USB driver versions 5.30.0 and 5.40.0, I subsequently received another email offering a link to download and test new version 5.50.0, which I am now using.

 

T+A has made the new driver version 5.50.0 publicly available on their website as a beta release for DAC200 and HA200.

This new driver can be downloaded directly via this link https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/TA_3rd_Gen_USB_audio_driver_BETA.zip

 

Driver version 5.50.0 comes with a bigger USB transfer buffer, meaning that the OS has to refill the buffer less often. This could (in some cases and depending on the PC) bring a slight improvement in SQ.

 

Please note:

The bigger buffer also means a slightly (4ms) longer latency of the driver. For pure audio applications this is normally not important but if you use the DAC in conjunction with video equipment (TV, DVD players) it might be necessary to adjust the LipSync delay time.

 

[OE333]

12 hours ago, camott said:

I assume that the DAC 200 is truly balanced throughout?

 

Yes, it is truly balanced throughout.

 

 

12 hours ago, camott said:

Does anyone know if it properly supports the AES48 balanced (cable) standard?

 

The AES48 standard was paid attention to when designing this DAC. There is a small difference, though: the connection between pin1 and enclosure is not direct but via a 100nF cap. This cap has no negative effect on EMI or shielding.

[OE333]

 

17 hours ago, camott said:

Out of curiosity, is the "Stream Quality" active for USB input?

 

Yes, the Signal Quality indication is active also for the USB input.

 

[OE333]

Of course tube amps are more susceptible to vibration than semiconductor devices but reducing vibration is always a good idea !

You could also experiment with a rubber mat plus a heavy weight on top of the DAC - in addition to your vibration footers....