BIOS help to get to ASDM7EC DSD256 with HQPe & i9-9900K?

[barrows]

Setup:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Z390 I Pro Mobo, 32 Gb Hyper X Predator RAM, i9-9900K, HDPlex 400 watt power supply, actively fan cooled.

 

XMP profile 1 selected, and "optimized defaults" in BIOS

 

running SonicTransporter (linux) OS + Roon + HQPe

 

Results: no problem for DSD 256 OS with ASDM7 or ASDM5EC and poly-sinc ext2, but ASDM7EC has a dropout every 10 seconds or so, with two cores running 95%-100%

 

As HQPe running ASDM7EC only really requires two cores to do a lot of work, I am doubting power availability is an issue, but perhaps there are clocking settings which could allow these two cores to run faster?  I am a total novice when it comes to BIOS, and am a bit nervous about going outside of "normal" parameters.  I also have seen that others with similar set ups appear to have no problems running HQPe+Roon at ASDM7EC to DSD256.  I have heard some suggest that sometimes mini itx mobos are sometimes limited by standard BIOS settings?

No network issues here, this is definitely a server limitation. 

[Account Closed]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

Setup:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Z390 I Pro Mobo, 32 Gb Hyper X Predator RAM, i9-9900K, HDPlex 400 watt power supply, actively fan cooled.

 

XMP profile 1 selected, and "optimized defaults" in BIOS

 

running SonicTransporter (linux) OS + Roon + HQPe

 

Results: no problem for DSD 256 OS with ASDM7 or ASDM5EC and poly-sinc ext2, but ASDM7EC has a dropout every 10 seconds or so, with two cores running 95%-100%

 

As HQPe running ASDM7EC only really requires two cores to do a lot of work, I am doubting power availability is an issue, but perhaps there are clocking settings which could allow these two cores to run faster?  I am a total novice when it comes to BIOS, and am a bit nervous about going outside of "normal" parameters.  I also have seen that others with similar set ups appear to have no problems running HQPe+Roon at ASDM7EC to DSD256.  I have heard some suggest that sometimes mini itx mobos are sometimes limited by standard BIOS settings?

No network issues here, this is definitely a server limitation. 

Hi Barrows, I am not familiar with Aorus Bios but it should be similar to ASUS which I do know. First go in and find Performance Mode and activate it. If that works then you are done. If that does not work then you can increase the clock speed. This is done using two settings. The first is the Base Clock and the second is the Multiplier. You have a K chip so you have a lot of leeway. Put the Multiplier at 40 first and the Base Clock at 100. This will give you a 4.0 Ghz clock speed. This is well below the 9900K top speed. Then increase the Multiplier slowly in small increments. First try 101, then 101.5, and up until you get a stable playback. If you can monitor the core temps that would be helpful. I use Speccy on Win 10 but on your OS I am not sure how you can do it. You want to make sure that the core temps are not much over 80 C for long periods. You can also let the Bios set the speed of each core using its Turbo mode or you can make all cores run at the same speed using the Sync All Cores setting. If Turbo works use that as a few cores can go higher in that mode. I find that I like the Sync setting but it will generate more heat. If you push too hard the system may not boot and you will have to back off some. With a 9900K you should get stable playback well before then.

 

Hope this helps and let me know how it goes.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, barrows said:

Gigabyte Aorus Z390 I Pro Mobo, 32 Gb Hyper X Predator RAM, i9-9900K, HDPlex 400 watt power supply, actively fan cooled.

 

XMP profile 1 selected, and "optimized defaults" in BIOS

 

running SonicTransporter (linux) OS + Roon + HQPe

 

Hardware wise it should be perfecly fine.

 

Can you try booting up HQPlayer OS image for comparison. It would give some baseline for comparison (OS environment I know and can replicate). This is always good to have on a USB memory stick if need arises, since it doesn't need installation it is easy to use and gives pretty consistent environment.

 

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, barrows said:

i9-9900K

 

I have this on the cheapest ASRock motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming 4).

 

Have the biggest Noctua fan.

 

Didn't touch the BIOS (apart from updating to latest version).

 

Stock Ubuntu Focal Desktop  , no fancy optimisations. Runs Roon Server on there too (as well as desktop apps).

 

ASDM7EC works fine all the time.

 

Never had an issue, even going through 2 x Netgear GS108's to reach the NAA.

 

650W Seatronics PSU but I doubt that's a factor.

[barrows]

4 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

I have this on the cheapest ASRock motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming 4).

 

Have the biggest Noctua fan.

 

Didn't touch the BIOS (apart from updating to latest version).

 

Stock Ubuntu Focal Desktop  , no fancy optimisations. Runs Roon Server on there too (as well as desktop apps).

 

ASDM7EC works fine all the time.

 

Never had an issue, even going through 2 x Netgear GS108's to reach the NAA.

 

650W Seatronics PSU but I doubt that's a factor.

Yeah, exactly why my issues are curious.  It is definitely not a lack of power, I have a wattmeter at the power supply input and the server is not even drawing 100 watts from the wall when attempting to run the ASDM7EC-DSD256.  No network issues here, the Network does not care about which modulator one uses, and here DSD 512 plays happily without issues on compatible hardware.

[asdf1000]

5 minutes ago, barrows said:

Yeah, exactly why my issues are curious.

 

By-pass sonicOrbiter OS and try HQP OS on a USB stick as Jussi mentioned. Fastest and easiest way to knock out several variables.

[barrows]

@bobflood, Yeah, I do not think the Aorus has a simple "performance mode" in BIOS, but I'll look again.  Plenty of complex settings for overclocking of course, and power, and such, all are set to "auto" as defaults.  There's also the advanced setting for the Turbo mode, I could have a look in there and see what the options are, perhaps "enhanced turbo"?  Although some folks say this can create a voltage problem to the processor.  I have no way to see processor temps during use, the only thing I can monitor in the SonicOrbiter OS is the CPU core usage.  It seems to run fairly cool when attempting to ASDM7EC DSD 256, with the fan not working very hard, so I feel I have plenty of cooling (Noctua radiator/fan setup).

[Account Closed]

2 minutes ago, barrows said:

@bobflood, Yeah, I do not think the Aorus has a simple "performance mode" in BIOS, but I'll look again.  Plenty of complex settings for overclocking of course, and power, and such, all are set to "auto" as defaults.  There's also the advanced setting for the Turbo mode, I could have a look in there and see what the options are, perhaps "enhanced turbo"?  Although some folks say this can create a voltage problem to the processor.  I have no way to see processor temps during use, the only thing I can monitor in the SonicOrbiter OS is the CPU core usage.  It seems to run fairly cool when attempting to ASDM7EC DSD 256, with the fan not working very hard, so I feel I have plenty of cooling (Noctua radiator/fan setup).

I wish I was familiar with your Bios. I agree with the suggestion to HQP OS on a USB stick just to make sure it is not a problem with SO.

[toddrhodes]

@barrows - apologies if this is a very basic ask, but what's your setting for Multicore in HQP? It's been a minute since I played with Embedded but if there are options for Off/Grayed/Checked like there are on Windows HQP Desktop - make sure it's grayed, not fully checked.

 

Otherwise, can you run any diagnostics to see what frequency your CPU is running at? When I was running UbuntuStudio for a short time, I would run a simple command to see where the CPU was sitting and I would see it fall down to 800 MHz and such while HQP was running and that would have associated dropouts. 

 

So, to that end, maybe see if there is any type of power management going on inside the O/S which could be throttling you down unwittingly. I can get Windows to do that just by using the standard Balanced mode or Power Saver mode. Performance Mode (again, this is an O/S setting, not a BIOS setting like mentioned earlier) mitigates that, so I just made a custom version of Balanced mode and limited CPU throttling. 

 

And for the record, I'm also running a 9900K(F) with ASDM7EC at DSD256, but on Win10 - no issues.

[barrows]

@toddrhodes,  There is no multicore setting in HQPe which I am aware of.  Looked everywhere as those with HQP Desktop always mention that should be grayed.

SO is a very low profile linux OS, and I asked Andrew if it could be doing anything to throttle the processor and he says no.  It is hard to imagine SO being a problem, as it is not resource hungry at all.  I know of no way to monitor things during playback, I asked Andrew about that as well, and he had no answer, but I would assume there must be some way linux gurus?

[Account Closed]

9 hours ago, barrows said:

@bobflood, Yeah, I do not think the Aorus has a simple "performance mode" in BIOS, but I'll look again.  Plenty of complex settings for overclocking of course, and power, and such, all are set to "auto" as defaults.  There's also the advanced setting for the Turbo mode, I could have a look in there and see what the options are, perhaps "enhanced turbo"?  Although some folks say this can create a voltage problem to the processor.  I have no way to see processor temps during use, the only thing I can monitor in the SonicOrbiter OS is the CPU core usage.  It seems to run fairly cool when attempting to ASDM7EC DSD 256, with the fan not working very hard, so I feel I have plenty of cooling (Noctua radiator/fan setup).

I looked up the Enhanced Turbo Mode and that is probably what you need. It just allows the 9900K to operate to its max Intel allowed capabilities. It isn't really overclocking in the sense of going past the manufacturer max allowed. It is similar to what ASUS calls Performance Mode.

[barrows]

42 minutes ago, bobflood said:

I looked up the Enhanced Turbo Mode and that is probably what you need. It just allows the 9900K to operate to its max Intel allowed capabilities. It isn't really overclocking in the sense of going past the manufacturer max allowed. It is similar to what ASUS calls Performance Mode.

I will look at the settings actually available under the turbo mode.  Right now that is set at "auto" which means the MoBo BIOS decide what to allow.  I can go in and change it.  I think the one thing I would want to avoid is having it turbo boost all cores unnecessarily, but we shall see what settings are there.  It may be that the board is running this conservatively, 

[barrows]

OK, tried a couple of things:

 

Set Intel Turbo Boost to "enabled" (default is "auto"), this made no difference

 

Tried setting Multicore performance to "enhanced" (default is "Auto"), but this popped the processor voltage up to 1.4 V, which made me a bit nervous, so I set back to "Auto"

 

Given that Jussi suggests that with this hardware I should easily be achieving EC7 to DSD 256 with "optimum defaults" and without any need for over clocking, I am beginning to think the problem is with the implementation and/or settings of HQPe with the Sonic Orbiter OS?  @agillis, do you have any ideas?

 

Running fine with ASDM5EC DSD 256, with two cores around 90%, but fully stable for all incoming rates.  Just cannot achieve ASDM7EC DSD 256.

 

I know everyone will suggest trying another OS, but I do not have a lot of time for this right now, and would need to do a lot of figuring out to understand how to run another OS.

[Account Closed]

23 minutes ago, barrows said:

OK, tried a couple of things:

 

Set Intel Turbo Boost to "enabled" (default is "auto"), this made no difference

 

Tried setting Multicore performance to "enhanced" (default is "Auto"), but this popped the processor voltage up to 1.4 V, which made me a bit nervous, so I set back to "Auto"

 

Given that Jussi suggests that with this hardware I should easily be achieving EC7 to DSD 256 with "optimum defaults" and without any need for over clocking, I am beginning to think the problem is with the implementation and/or settings of HQPe with the Sonic Orbiter OS?  @agillis, do you have any ideas?

 

Running fine with ASDM5EC DSD 256, with two cores around 90%, but fully stable for all incoming rates.  Just cannot achieve ASDM7EC DSD 256.

 

I know everyone will suggest trying another OS, but I do not have a lot of time for this right now, and would need to do a lot of figuring out to understand how to run another OS.

Did it work with the Enhanced Multicore setting? If so use it. This a K series chip and you have active cooling so you are probably being more conservative than need be. You could also just load standard Win 10/64 Home and worry about tracking the issue down when you have time.

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, bobflood said:

Did it work with the Enhanced Multicore setting? If so use it. This a K series chip and you have active cooling so you are probably being more conservative than need be. You could also just load standard Win 10/64 Home and worry about tracking the issue down when you have time.

i did not try it as the high voltage bothered me.  I know Intel specs up to even 1.5 volts being OK, but I have seen many folks saying that is going to fry the chip.  I can try it though, I am not to worried about a short term use at this voltage.

I would like to hear form Andrew RE the multicore setting in HQPe on SO OS...

[Miska]

@barrows have you tried with HQPlayer OS? Before a lot of hassle, establish a baseline with it.

 

[barrows]

@Miska,  I contacted Andrew (SGC) and asked him about his implementation of HQPe, and he said he loads it with the all the default settings intact and does not change anything.  I am thinking specifically about the multicore setup, as many mention this for HQP desktop being important.  Can you confirm that the default settings for HQPe should be fine?  (Not the configuration settings, there is no multicore set up settings in configuration).

[Miska]

5 minutes ago, barrows said:

@Miska,  I contacted Andrew (SGC) and asked him about his implementation of HQPe, and he said he loads it with the all the default settings intact and does not change anything.  I am thinking specifically about the multicore setup, as many mention this for HQP desktop being important.  Can you confirm that the default settings for HQPe should be fine?  (Not the configuration settings, there is no multicore set up settings in configuration).

 

There are just various builds of HQPlayer Embedded...

 

Default is "auto". Since HQPlayer Embedded is designed for hardware manufacturers, hardware related settings are primarily in the config file, but not exposed through the web interface to end users. Because those settings are supposed to be set by the hardware manufacturer who knows the hardware they are shipping HQPlayer with.

 

[barrows]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

There are just various builds of HQPlayer Embedded...

 

Default is "auto". Since HQPlayer Embedded is designed for hardware manufacturers, hardware related settings are primarily in the config file, but not exposed through the web interface to end users. Because those settings are supposed to be set by the hardware manufacturer who knows the hardware they are shipping HQPlayer with.

 

I have 4.21.1 installed in this server.

[Miska]

20 minutes ago, barrows said:

I have 4.21.1 installed in this server.

 

There are seven different builds of 4.21.1..

 

[barrows]

OK, so, I updated BIOS to latest version, which has improvements/updates to the Vcore levels.  Set XMP 1, set multicore in BIOS to "enhanced" which is basically a 5 GHz overclock.  Yes, the fan runs a little harder and the server consumes a bit more power (I have a wattmeter on the input still below 100 W), but still dropouts with EC7-DSD 256.  The only conclusion I can make is that there is some limitation with how HQPe is implemented with SO OS, as there is no way this should not work I can think of with these settings.

I do not have anymore time to mess with this now, and do not have the experience necessary to install, configure, and run other OSs.  Ultimately it looks like that is what I am going to have to do, with some help from someone experienced with linux and HQPe setups.

ASDM5EC sounds very good and plays perfectly reliably, but I have heard 7, and it is even better here...

[Account Closed]

57 minutes ago, barrows said:

OK, so, I updated BIOS to latest version, which has improvements/updates to the Vcore levels.  Set XMP 1, set multicore in BIOS to "enhanced" which is basically a 5 GHz overclock.  Yes, the fan runs a little harder and the server consumes a bit more power (I have a wattmeter on the input still below 100 W), but still dropouts with EC7-DSD 256.  The only conclusion I can make is that there is some limitation with how HQPe is implemented with SO OS, as there is no way this should not work I can think of with these settings.

I do not have anymore time to mess with this now, and do not have the experience necessary to install, configure, and run other OSs.  Ultimately it looks like that is what I am going to have to do, with some help from someone experienced with linux and HQPe setups.

ASDM5EC sounds very good and plays perfectly reliably, but I have heard 7, and it is even better here...

You are right in that it should play just fine with those settings. This does not reflect well on SO OS or on Andrew's ability to configure it for your hardware. It is obvious that the multi-core configuration needs to be modified for your hardware. Only you can work with him to get that right.

 

In the interim, if it was me facing this, I would just load Win 10 and HQP Desktop and be done with it. It would only take about an hour.

 

Good luck with it.

[Miska]

22 minutes ago, bobflood said:

In the interim, if it was me facing this, I would just load Win 10 and HQP Desktop and be done with it. It would only take about an hour.

 

Why not boot HQPlayer OS from USB memory stick, as it doesn't require installation and is ready in 10 minutes?

 

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, bobflood said:

You are right in that it should play just fine with those settings. This does not reflect well on SO OS or on Andrew's ability to configure it for your hardware.

In Andrew's defense I must point out that this build was a special, custom project for me, done as a favor, and should not reflect on the products which offers to his normal customers, which are all optimized for the hardware he provides, and which work perfectly as advertised.  He does not normally use the i9-9900K processors.

[barrows]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Why not boot HQPlayer OS from USB memory stick, as it doesn't require installation and is ready in 10 minutes?

 

Jussi, I took a few minutes at Signalyst's website and could not figure this out, or even find where this would (HQP OS) be available.  Please understand, I am mostly computer illiterate when it comes to loading OSs, etc.  I am also running headless, and am not sure how I would control this, or integrate with Roon, etc.