Afterdark Master Clock for Uptone EtherRegen

[richard_crl032]

On 3/22/2021 at 4:32 AM, Mjw21a said:

Yes, a bit pointless without an expensive rewire of the house.

 

We've a nice, fast internet connection though everything within the house is connected by a wireless mesh with audio connected systems connected via RJ45 to those mesh devices.

 

Who knows,  we've some house renovations on the cards. Might not be too difficult to run a cable from the garage to the living room. ;)

 

Hi 21a,

 

I can assure you that in my system also with wireless mesh, the ER made an obvious improvement.

 

I have 25m of Supra cat 8 cable in my closet as it did not improvement sound quality to my ears ... ymmv as usual.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

Duelund AC0.4 Silver Premium Audio Cable (Silver in Cotton / Oil impregnated) 

 

Those black dc cable from pcb to dc jack

[richard_crl032]

Here ?

https://duelundaudio.com/cable/

 

But I am a believer that it is all about matching including tuning by ear and it is still only to AD's demo system if done at all.

 

Some swears by Mundorf silver/gold dc cable but ghentaudio's are fine for me ... I prefer to spend on technologies not tried e.g. external higher quality AD clock, ER etc. and 

 

Cheers and enjoy !

 

 

[richard_crl032]

On 6/14/2021 at 6:10 AM, Mjw21a said:

Funnily enough I see soft annealed silver for the wiring between DC plug and the power pins in my Mutec MC-3+USB mod (for the Super Fared 3).

 

Afterdark seems to use materials in line with what I'd use myself so I've no complaints there. I certainly agree with soldering the wire directly to the board thereby losing a contact. Likewise a plug is handy for flexibility. I think what Afterdark is doing will suit the vast majority of potential buyers just fine :)

 

Next I'll add 75ohm termination plugs to my Mutec and source a Tortech balanced studio power supply to go after my Furman AC210 AE.  :)

Hmmh .... 0.4mm for 1A before melting i.e. Afterdark clock <<1.0A ?

 

Frankly do not like how fragile 0.4mm is and may just change to same dueland 0.8mm one ... any concern on detrimental effect to performance if soldered right ?

 

Cheers.

 

 

[richard_crl032]

30 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

 
Hi Richard,

 
We have 0.8mm in stock, but the sounding is not as good as 0.4mm one. May be due to Giesemann clock only consume 0.6A. So it sound the better when compared, a little fragile that is true.

 

I hope you enjoy the burn in process, it will get better abs better.

 

Have a nice evening.

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark.

Hey Adrian,

 

Tks tks for the advice 🙏

 

Will not touch my Emperor double crown clock with certainty then ... 

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

On 3/23/2021 at 8:35 AM, GryphonGuy said:

 

Agreed that there is no NEED. BUT and its a big but, the resulting sound quality it literally delivers is extremely if not most desirable.

 

Regards

GG

 

Hi GG,

 

Somehow missed your post 6 mths ago ...

 

I concur the positive impact with ER with wifi in MY system ... I am running my home with AirTies wire mesh and one node is dedicated to to my music system for internet music. My playback of music files is from internal 2x4tb ssd in my Antipodes cx while my 10TBx2 Synology NAS is powered off for backup only.

 

Without the ER between the mesh node, it is veiled in comparison ... I also had the AD double crown oxco clock to bypass the ER's femto clock. 

 

The Antipodes cx and ex just came back after the recent Oladra upgrade and I have now a 2nd ER without the AD clock before the cx to have the 1st ER with the AD clock between the cx and ex. This as recommended by Uptone to have ER nearest to my Terminator Plus dac which also benefit the SSD playback in comparison until I decides to get the 2nd AD clock or shoot a used Mutec Ref 10 or 120se.

 

Yes, ER especially with AD clock improves wifi streaming in MY system without a doubt. Incidentally, I have the 25m Supra Cat 8 cable in the cardboard since against the norm, it sounded worse than the Airties mesh node which I did modded its single cap with Panasonic FM while having it as well as master node and router on lps.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

On 4/10/2021 at 7:35 PM, DSK6 said:

Unfortunately I can’t tell you which component made the biggest difference but I’m not about to start messing with it now. I really can’t see how replacing the EtherREGEN’s SMPS with a good LPS could improve things further … but … 

 

 

I kept to using the small stock smps for the following reasons:

 

1. Current sound quality improvement after 2x ER and 1x AD double crown clock suffices

2. Avoid more $ spent, including associated dc cables

3. Lack of space, including associated cables

4. Uptone's position that stock smps is fine

5. Not knowledgeable enough on concern of common ground, breaking moat 

6. Keep limited $ for next hardware or technology breakthru at cost within my budget e.g. ER, AD clock, Oladra upgrade for my Antipodes

 

Cheers.

 

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi R1200CL,

 

My ERs are standard 75 ohm ones and this splitter thingy is 50ohm needing further convertor (s).  

 

Been reading nicely shared info here on impedence mismatch, sine clock signal not affected, breaking of moat being not isolated etc. etc. as well as eventual preference for 2 units by someone who tried.

 

However, I am frankly confused often while knowing it just cannot be better or worse still negatively affecting the 2nd ER between the Antipode ex player and cx server if I do try using splitter and converter with more cabling ... I will just take it that I have 1 ER with AD clock before the ex player as recommended but there is no doubt on the significant improvement from having them.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

Hi Johnny,

 

Tks for the sharing especially I had checked and found the farad3 of reasonable $ 🙏

 

However, the  dual zerozone lps, ifi iusb3.0/iusb, uptone lps1.2, powercords, ghent dc cables etc. suffices at this juncture and will keep to stock smps especially since uptone who designed the ER vouch for them .. the rabbit hole is deep enuff and sound quality with the recently oladra upgraded Antipodes ex+cx at usd4k and moving the ER and AD clock between the cx and ex is mighty fine.

 

I just cleaned up the back of my hifi rack and the jungle of cablings for my system (believe below photo irks you too !) and wish for no more boxes or cabling unless absolutely some major technological breakthru or specific requirement ... there will always be a better psu.

 

Thanks again and cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

1 hour ago, Carlos E said:

Hi Richard and John,

 

Maybe this is not the correct forum but do you please can comment on what the ER add between the CX and EX? That will be a very interesting information for me and maybe others members. I am using the S40/S60 + EX with a Sablon ethernet cable (2021) between them. Adding a SOTM ISO-CAT 6 change the presentation but not for better, in my case, the organic sound of this combo gone.

I am also burning (5 days now) an AfterDark clock (the less expansive one) and so far my impressions are very positive.  I always prefer the Antipodes combo (through USB) due to it organic sound compared to the DCS Bartok internal streamer (using Mosaic) which have much more impact, dynamic, bass control (that I like) but more aggressive at high frequency that I don't like. With the ER+AfterDark clock everything changed. Now the Bartok have have the same dynamic, better bass control but now, much more organic sound. I been listing to the Bartok alone for the last two days and it sound amazing.   

 

Regards

Carlos

 

Hi Carlos,

 

My pleasure and since I had been listening these few days ... and before someone indeed says not the right forum .. dunno 😂. However, I do have 2X ERs now and hope my experience still helps.

 

I had the ER and then the ER with AD double crown and it had always been before the cx server as I am more on 24/7 full flac internet radio stations ..  against the good advice of Uptone to have them nearest to my Terminator Plus dac. It was also partly due to cabling or lack of them to avoid more $ on Revive Acoustic ethernet cables as well as being plain lazy.

 

Even with this setup, ER made an obvious improvement and adding the AD clock further improved the clarity with blacker back .. music just "pops" and more of everything in a positive manner for me to want to listen more with appreciation to Uptone and AD .. sorry, my reviewer skill sucks and I also find audiophiles' words relative as well as subjective.

 

As it became apparent that Antipodes will not be embarking on clock upgrade I had been wishing for due to  positive clocking experience from ER+AD and also from Terminator Plus' oxco clock syncing  my other non usb components via Hermes dcc and Avatar cdp, I bought the 2nd ER to have at least an oxco along the chain. Hence moving the AD clock and ER between the cx and ex fulfills this "clock upgrade" albiet not within mobo processing of the Antipodes but now music playback from 2x4TB SSDs can also benefit from the ER+AD in the signal chain.

 

Just before doing so, I had simply added 2nd ER to be between my oladra upgraded cx and ex to avoid the well known needed restabilisation of the AD clock .. not exactly a positive experience me as music became too hifi-ish for again lack of reviewer's skill. Clean and detailed but bordering being harsh and certainly not musical or more enjoyable than without this 2nd ER .. even a bit more veiled and fuzzy without the ER was much more enjoyable in comparison.

 

Disappointed, I shut down the ERs and AD clock to reroute the cablings and now have the AD clock with the 2nd ER between the cx and ex. That put a smile to my face even in initial minutes and I stayed up till 5 am cos it just got better as expected when the AD clock stabilises. Music notes' extension and texture bloomed, staging widen, black got blacker i.e. music "pops" .. sorry for being such a bore with limited superlatives.

 

As with my experience with Hermes dcc and Terminator Plus with synced single high quality oxco of Terminator Plus with which Allo USB signature and NuPrime S1 sounded better, the stock cx+ex did not and hence connected it directly to the Terminator Plus ... all very component dependent imho. In this case of ER between the server and player, it may benefit lesser ones but not the Antipodes cx and ex stack. However with higher quality oxco clock from AD, the outcome changes ... it now improves the link between the cx and ex. Just my thought for your consideration but ymmv as usual ...

 

In summary, highly recommend having the ER but only with AD clock if budget allows for you Antipodes cx+ex stack in the no end hobby of ours .. worthwhile in my opinion and even have the Mutec Ref10/120se for onetime pain if you can swing it as multiple ERs and more suitable devices cannot a bad thing and even needed.  2 or 3 units of AD double crown is not exactly small $ but resale when needed cannot beat the Mutecs with much more functionalities and German technology ... avoids my current dilemma.

 

Hope this helps and I would be interested to even compared my oladra upgraded Antipodes cx+ex stack with "only" usd2k worth of ER and AD double crown clock against the latest usd15k K50 from Antipodes ... in the words of Mark of Antipodes, the oladra upgrade would bring the cx+ex to 80-90% of the K50 😊

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

1 hour ago, richard_crl032 said:

Hi Johnny,

 

Tks for the sharing especially I had checked and found the farad3 of reasonable $ 🙏

 

 

 

Hi Johnny,

 

The front view is not too bad especially when the Mark of Antipodes nicely did blue leds for the oladra upgrade as my last modded blue led component and even offering it as an option to all Antipodes cx and ex owners  😊

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS:  Oops ..my apology for OOT in this thread 🙏

[richard_crl032]

46 minutes ago, Carlos E said:

Hi Richard,

 

Thank you very much for your time in sharing your experience. I really appreciate that and I will do some tests myself. I believe that AD also have a three clock outputs unit but I don't remember how it compare to the Mutec unit in price $.

 

Regards

Carlos

Hi Carlos,

 

The 3 clock output of double crown level is about HK21k or about usd2.7k which is pushing towards price of an used mutec ref10 (new@usd5k rrp) which arguably will have more resale value ...and its more elaborate functionalities.

 

The Giesemann eva level is about usdk which I have no idea how it compares with the mutec ref10.

 

Hence mentioned dilemma especially when I dun really have the need for a 3rd output and having the ER+AD between cx and ex is more critical going by Uptone's advice.

 

Please share your finding when available.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: Do consider the oladra upgrade as it is time limited .. or rid of the cx+ex as their values had dropped obviously with K50 ... I was also in that dilemma but bit the bullet as blue led was day 1 wish after getting them

 

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi R1200CL,

 

Because I want the cx server to benefit from 1x ER and I am not a believer of cascading 2X ERs 🙏

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

22 hours ago, richard_crl032 said:

Hi Carlos,

 

The 3 clock output of double crown level is about HK21k or about usd2.7k which is pushing towards price of an used mutec ref10 (new@usd5k rrp) which arguably will have more resale value ...and its more elaborate functionalities.

 

The Giesemann eva level is about usdk which I have no idea how it compares with the mutec ref10.

 

Hence mentioned dilemma especially when I dun really have the need for a 3rd output and having the ER+AD between cx and ex is more critical going by Uptone's advice.

 

Please share your finding when available.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: Do consider the oladra upgrade as it is time limited .. or rid of the cx+ex as their values had dropped obviously with K50 ... I was also in that dilemma but bit the bullet as blue led was day 1 wish after getting them

 

 

 

For completeness, the phase noise specific of  Mutec Ref10 120se.

 

[richard_crl032]

You will make their new owner a happy man !

 

I have my ER with AD double crown between my olandra Antipodes cx and ex and just added a cheap China BG7BTL with Oscilloscope Inc clock to the other ER before the Antipodes cx 2 days ago ... my system never sounded as good as it does now.

 

Will be great if you can list the $ for each component and this total package here .. I may be tempted to grab them 😅

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

Hi Mouna,

 

Thanks for reaching out to me with offers 🙏

 

Will stay with existing to keep limited funds for other improvement projects.

 

Thanks again and glad you had sold your ER ...

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

7 hours ago, TRIODE4 said:

Hi everyone, I recently purchased a used Emperor Signature with an Afterdark power supply included. It has been on for 3 days straight and I have an Afterdark clock cable. Not sure but after seeing all the glowing reviews I wonder if mine is faulty. The dc cable connectors are pretty loose going into the clock box.  I feel I have gone step back after putting into the external mode to the ethergen. Is it because I haven't given it enough time yet? I hope so.

 

Hi, I have the afterdark double crown to the ER powered by stock uptone smps and using a cheaply apogee wyde eye clock cable with a cheaply mic zerozone lps ... it sounds great between my antipodes ex and cx.

 

Give it at least 1 week and Afterdark has listed time duration and subjective 100% till 30 days.

 

I have another cheap MIC oxco clock to the ER before the cx and done many plugging in and out for stock internal femto clock and this MIC oxco clock and obvious preference with the external one.

 

Hope you had not broken the moat which I find the most critical but complex in my dual ERs setup.

 

Then again, yymv on subjective improvement which is also system and person dependent.

 

Wish you hear improvement in due time .. cheers.

[richard_crl032]

12 hours ago, FrankMA said:

Is anyone using the Aurealis Dueland Silver BNC clock cables with the After Dark/EtherRegen combo successfully?

 

I was getting ready to buy one and Geoff at Aurealis mentioned he had some recent negative feedback from a user using this combo (although the Antipodes CX/EX was also in the loop) 

Hi Frank,

 

That was me but it has nothing to do with sound quality ... Geoff is cool to share this "negative feedback" before me and I will do so for clarification.

 

I bought 5 pcs of the Aurealis dueland silver version with silver plated BNC connector with carbon shielding since I am also one that is ok for aud200 cables instead of current MIJ proaudio Canare's 5.5cuhd at affordable $ but not those more ex than ER itself ... since invested already into usd4k oladra upgrade for already not inexpensive cx+ex+p1+p2 stack, 2x ERs, AD's emperor double crown clock etc.

 

The issue is that I needed the clock cables used with the ERs to run through a forest of 3-4 power and dc cables for the ER with AD's clock between my Antipodes cx and ex in close proximity and I found after days of trying that perhaps due to the level of screening or attenuation at 10Mhz, connection of ERs will drop and not work as we all know .. ER cannot hv clock signal intermittently lost. Reverting to Canare or Aplogee clock cables resolves this issue that can be 10 mins or few hours. I do not experienced the same for the ER from my wifi mesh and CX while using the china clock.

 

Geoff nicely refund me for 2 cables to keep to the same previous Canare 5.5cuhd while I kept the remaining 3 Aurealis dueland cables to sync my Avatar transport, Hermes ddc and Terminator Plus that are working fine. Can only guess that these does not have the issue of not working even if there is intermittent loss of clock signal while noting that they are not in the company of such "forest" of other power and dc cables.

 

Hopes this clarifies and I would further add that the sound quality of these cable from my Avator and DCC sounds fine and no worse than Canare and Apogee ones. No bat's ears or reviewer's superlative adjectives as well as not sure if it is the upgraded mundorf caps in my Terminator Plus completing their burning in but system seems more musical and indeed "warmer" with midrange texture without any loss of details ?

 

Btw, Canare's 5.5cuhd is vfm at few tens of dollars if in doubt and sounds great while 8cuhd with even lower 10khz attenuation is probably a bit too stiff .. do get factory terminated and tested ones.

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

41 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

Thank you for your feedback @richard_crl032

 

Will also check out the Canare

Hi Frank,

 

Detailed specifications are here:

 

https://www.canare.co.jp/en/products/cables/index.php?tid=4_010_uc

 

L-5.5cuhd were bought Yen2000/usd20 from here via Sendico:

 

https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/239127/

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

11 hours ago, FrankMA said:

Can anyone confirm it is ok to hot swap BNC cables or do you have to power down the devices first?

Hi Frank,

 

You cannot when used with ER .. once clock signal is lost, the ER will not work even if reconnected when you had selected eternal clock. 

 

You have to switch off/on the ER with the clock signal present for ER to work.

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

12 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

Hello - thanks everyone for the BNC cable/hot swap advice

 

One other thing I noticed with my clock. This material was attached on the bottom:

 

Did anyone else with this clock have this? Looks unfinished to me or it could have some important/specific purpose. I have not removed to see what is under it

 

Maybe Adrian can comment

Hi Frank

 

Nothing underneath there I believe .. just soundproof damping material with the idea to also damp vibration of the enclosure. 

 

Not sure when or how effective but perhaps mu metal will be next possible mods for ER, clock and LPS enclosure like in the enclosure of my stock Bel Canto FM-1 tuner 😊

 

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=mumetal

 

Cheers.

 

 

[richard_crl032]

22 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

You must be joking. You can’t repair a sealed unit, like the OCXO is. If you look inside, that’s basically what you find. And you can’t destroy it by open the case. 
You can possibly rip off that cable he uses inside the box. Easy to solder back on. 
 

Aaah .. leave all the mentioned damping material, leather etc. applied to the oxco as is that is seen in my AD emperor double crown clock but use whatever paste between them and this proposed tungsten block and not directly onto the clock like the China clock without them ?  I must hv been confused and my apology but I am not joking.

 

Adrian is here and can advise I guess.

 

Cheers.

[richard_crl032]

1 hour ago, sakso136 said:

 

 

Deleted .. oops I should not comment on other clocks on AD's sponsored thread. With apology.

[richard_crl032]

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@richard_crl032

I was more thinking the tungsten block as an alternative to what Adrian is covering his clock with. The tungsten ought to be fare more efficient. It remains to to how many will try and report back.

As a start one could remove it, (only inside), and test if any changes appear. 
 

If a paste is needed or preferred, I would use same as on computer processors. Optional double sided tape, or just nothing. I may reuse AD material. Cut in two or three, and use it on the sides and just tape around. Just to keep the tungsten block in place. 
However the clock shouldn’t be to much isolated, so don’t try use any isolating material, in order to keep the clock warm. 
 

 

 

Wow ... nice and neat on the china clock to experiment with especially since inexpensive to do so ! 😍

 

For my much much more expensive AD clock with already installed damping solution, I will hesitate with the mod since I have no equipment to measure against the nicely already provided test report if indeed any improvement made or worse still deterioration in addition to warranty concern or resale value.

 

Do try the less destructive Mu metal mod in addition if indeed helps in sound quality to advise if possible 🙏🙏

 

Thanks and cheers.

[richard_crl032]

8 hours ago, AfterDark. said:

Hi!

 

We do not recommended to open the chassis and apply Tungsten block on OCXO, this is not a good idea. The metal will release heat from the OCXO and keep the temperature always, then the heater inside may keep working to maintain stable temperature inside, so the additional metal may causes performance issues.

Since we do not know the location of temperature sensor, randomly placing the Metal on OCXO will affect the measurement on temperature. So the stabilisation of OCXO cannot be achieved.  
 

Thanks 

 

Best Regards,

Adrian 
AfterDark.

To our Chinese crowd and all for Chinese New Year's Eve Celebration and Reunion dinners !!