Linn Kazoo - Tidal no longer login in

[Gavin1977]

Anyone know what this message is all about?  I can't log into Tidal via Linn Kazoo anymore (via iphone or Mac), was working fine up until yesterday...

 

I have noticed that on Tidal itself is now requires me to login using Facebook credentials.... no other option allowed.  odd.

 

Set up is Tidal -> Linn Kazoo -> Bubble upnp (latest version of Java8, synology DSM 6.2 server) -> HQPlayer Embedded (as an Open Home Renderer in BubbleuPNP).

 

 

[seeteeyou]

Error message looked quite similar to stuff like this and it might be caused by an expired certificate of some sort

 

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32279964/pkix-path-validation-failed-java-security-cert-certpathvalidatorexception-sign

 

What if you're trying to login via Safari instead?

 

https://my.tidal.com

[Gavin1977]

Cheers - login via safari on my Mac works fine...

[seeteeyou]

Your credentials should be OK then, let's see if there were an expired certificate or otherwise

 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8139634

[bubbleguuum]

BubbleUPnP/BubbleDS developer here.

 

TIDAL is now using OAuth2 to login into its service. Before that it was login/password based and that is what BubbleUPnP Server supports as part of its TIDAL OpenHome support.

 

Linn has implemented the new OAuth2 login method on its OpenHome streamers (and in Kazoo) but not BubbleUPnP Server. So basically the screen that you see is telling you that.

To login to TIDAL you will need to do it using BubbleUPnP or BubbleDS on Android (select your OpenHome'd HQPlayer as current renderer, go into Library tab and enter the TIDAL folder. You only need to do this once.

Once this is done, Kazoo will detect that you are logged to TIDAL and you will be able to browse it.

 

This will work for some time but probably not forever if/when TIDAL removes the old login method, or if Linn remove the old method to access TIDAL (they just removed old method to login for now)

Adding the OpenHome OAuth2 login method support to BubbleUPnP Server is not trivial as it is rather convoluted. Not sure if/when I will do it.

 

 

[Gavin1977]

Thanks you for answering - very much appreciated.

 

Lucky Tidal will have a workaround in the future... being able to control Tidal on a windows LTSC Server using Tidal Connect on your phone.  I just hope I can pass through to HQPlayer...

 

I'm only Windows / Apple based... how do do this workaround?

 

I would use uPNP direct to HQPlayer, but it has never worked consistently on my network... whereas Openhome has been flawless.

[seeteeyou]

Announce: UPnPBridge = integrate UPnP/DLNA players with LMS (squeeze2upnp)
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?103728-Announce-UPnPBridge-integrate-UPnP-DLNA-players-with-LMS-(squeeze2upnp)
 

Attention TIDAL users - changes ahead!
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?112300-Attention-TIDAL-users-changes-ahead!

Quote

TIDAL asked me to implement their new authentication system instead (oauth2 for those interested).

 

Not exactly the best combo since we'll have to get LMS running just for the sake of TIDAL with OAuth2, and then I guess that BubbleUPnP Server could create an OpenHome renderer from UPnPBridge but not sure?

 

https://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver2/docs/nas_install.html

 

It's like jumping through so many hoops for easier, though other alternatives might also be somewhat complicated?

[guiltyboxswapper]

OAuth2 isn't a big deal to implement these days (its widely supported by most languages and runtimes).  I have implemented it countless times myself, and in different languages. 

 

Granted there might be some downstream complications of passing the context between systems, but I doubt these cant be solved problems either.

[seeteeyou]

@Cebolla any ideas, please? Is it a good idea to try another iOS app by ‎LUMÏN instead of Linn?

 

---

 

BTW, not sure if these guys were relevant?

 

https://github.com/FUMR/tidal-async

Quote

Python Tidal streaming service unofficial API in async fashion supporting OAuth2 authentication

 

https://no.linkedin.com/in/danielcherubini

Quote

I have built and architectured the new Oauth2 login for TIDAL

 

OAuth 2.0 authentication strategy for TIDAL using Passport.js and Node.js.

https://npm.io/package/passport-tidal

https://github.com/tidal-engineering/passport-tidal

Quote

Passport strategy for authenticating with Tidal using the OAuth 2.0 API.

 

[Gavin1977]

We have a solution thanks @guiltyboxswapper.  Mconnect app works fine.  It successfully logs into Tidal, and HQPlayer Embedded also works via upnp (first time I've had upnp correctly working on my network).   So Bubbleupnp is not needed in this config.  The only additional setting is selecting the maximum output to 'HiFi' (rather than Master), since HQplayer doesn't do MQA.

 

Lumin app has the same login issue, mainly because the Lumin app only works with OpenHome Renderers and therefore needs Bubbleupnp to be used.

 

So looks like Kinn Kazoo and Lumin apps are defunct at the time for Tidal since they are reliant on OpenHome, and hence Bubbleupnp.

[Exocer]

I have used Linn Kazoo and MConnect. I was never able to close the MConnect app or restart my mobile device with music playing without causing the music to stop. In fact, I always wondered if the app pulls the music file down to the mobile device first and streams it to the UPNP renderer on the server. With Open Home/Linn Kazoo I could do anything I wanted with the phone (including taking a short trip to the store) and the list would continue on without the phone in close proximity. So it felt as though the server fetched the files itself with OpenHome/Linn Kazoo.

 

Perhaps this is unique to my experience though.

[Rexp]

4 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

We have a solution thanks @guiltyboxswapper.  Mconnect app works fine.  It successfully logs into Tidal, and HQPlayer Embedded also works via upnp (first time I've had upnp correctly working on my network).   So Bubbleupnp is not needed in this config.  The only additional setting is selecting the maximum output to 'HiFi' (rather than Master), since HQplayer doesn't do MQA.

 

Lumin app has the same login issue, mainly because the Lumin app only works with OpenHome Renderers and therefore needs Bubbleupnp to be used.

 

So looks like Kinn Kazoo and Lumin apps are defunct at the time for Tidal since they are reliant on OpenHome, and hence Bubbleupnp.

Mconnect doesn't do Tidal gapless. 

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, Exocer said:

With Open Home/Linn Kazoo I could do anything I wanted with the phone (including taking a short trip to the store) and the list would continue on without the phone in close proximity.

 

OpenHome should be indispensable for that very reason IMHO

 

https://bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver2/docs/features_and_requirements.html#openhome_intro

Quote

When operating an UPnP AV Renderer, the playlist of audio tracks resides on the Control Point which must remain running for playlist track advance to happen. It has 2 main drawbacks:

 

keeping a Control Point app running isn’t the best solution, in particular on mobile devices as it consumes battery.

 

Quote

To tackle these issues, the OpenHome standard addresses the deficiencies of UPnP AV, adding the ability for an OpenHome Renderer to store and manage its playlist. It can advance playback by itself without requiring a Control Point to be running.

 

Certainly a nice "problem" to have, as long as we're willing to put BubbleUPnP Server somewhere on the network.

 

Other than that, I wonder if spending $35 or so on RPi4 with this optimized version of piCorePlayer for $0 were beneficial for the SQ of BubbleUPnP Server or not?

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/60691-how-is-the-pi-4/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1102195

[Cebolla]

13 hours ago, Rexp said:

Mconnect doesn't do Tidal gapless. 

 

Can you qualify that?

 

Otherwise such a general statement is twaddle - the mconnect Player app supports the standard UPnP gapless playback mechanism (requires the Gapless to Renderer setting to be switched on), including when using it to stream TIDAL's tracks, but the controlled UPnP renderer must also support gapless playback.

[Cebolla]

16 hours ago, Exocer said:

I have used Linn Kazoo and MConnect. I was never able to close the MConnect app or restart my mobile device with music playing without causing the music to stop. In fact, I always wondered if the app pulls the music file down to the mobile device first and streams it to the UPNP renderer on the server. With Open Home/Linn Kazoo I could do anything I wanted with the phone (including taking a short trip to the store) and the list would continue on without the phone in close proximity. So it felt as though the server fetched the files itself with OpenHome/Linn Kazoo.

Perhaps this is unique to my experience though.

 

No, not unique, but you likely just have a misunderstanding of the difference between standard UPnP and OpenHome, especially regarding the ownership of the current playlist:

 

The mconnect Player app on the mobile device most definitely does not handle the music files when controlling a UPnP renderer and it always instructs the controlled UPnP renderer to fetch them directly from the server.  

[Exocer]

2 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

No, you are likely just have a misunderstanding of the difference between standard UPnP and OpenHome, especially regarding the ownership of the current playlist:

 

The mconnect Player app on the mobile device most definitely does not handle the music files when controlling a UPnP renderer and it always instructs the controlled UPnP renderer to fetch them directly from the server.  

I had always wondered if that was the case. Thanks for the clarification!

[Gavin1977]

Quite interesting that I have an up tick in sound quality using MConnect Player & upnp direct to HQPlayer.  Bubbleupnp was hosted on hosted on a noisy Synology NAS so that might have contributed.

 

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

 

[seeteeyou]

Replacing Synology NAS with an affordable fanless mini PC from China while running an audiophile-grade Linux distro certainly made a significant difference

 

https://www.snakeoil-os.net/wiki/Expand/nas

https://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=136704

 

Having 3 separate units of RPi4 also did the trick when each task is assigned to its corresponding machine, that combo with the same optimized piCorePlayer even managed to beat the original music server with both JCAT NIC and USB cards

 

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?5404-走向超值而極緻的-HI-FI電腦訊源（連載）&p=242352#post242352

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?5404-走向超值而極緻的-HI-FI電腦訊源（連載）&p=242451#post242451

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?5404-走向超值而極緻的-HI-FI電腦訊源（連載）&p=242530#post242530

• 1st RPi4 = file server (i.e. storage)
• 2nd RPi4 = LMS (i.e. frontend)
• 3rd RPi4 = Squeezelite (i.e. backend)

[Rexp]

8 hours ago, Cebolla said:

 

Can you qualify that?

 

Otherwise such a general statement is twaddle - the mconnect Player app supports the standard UPnP gapless playback mechanism (requires the Gapless to Renderer setting to be switched on), including when using it to stream TIDAL's tracks, but the controlled UPnP renderer must also support gapless playback.

I don't think its acceptable for Mconnect not to play Tidal gaplessly in any scenario, do you? 

[Cebolla]

In another context I would agree with you, however responding to my actual post with what looks like either an irrelevant or an illogical question is not really an answer:

 

- Despite its name, the mconnect Player app does not play anything when used for the only purpose of relevance in the discussions thus far in this thread, including (especially) the post you first responded to, ie, that of a TIDAL supporting UPnP renderer controller app;

 

- or, if by 'play TIDAL' you really meant 'control a UPnP renderer's TIDAL streaming' then it's not logical to question the app regarding gapless playback failure if the user has not switched on the Gapless to Renderer setting and/or the user has selected a UPnP renderer for it to control that doesn't itself support the standard UPnP gapless playback mechanism.

[wklie]

Lumin app currently supports both the Tidal OAuth2 login for Lumin hardware with the latest Lumin firmware, and the deprecated login method for compatible OpenHome renderer, as announced in this post:

 

We have not removed the support for OpenHome Tidal yet, until Tidal decides to remove the old login method.

[Gavin1977]

28 minutes ago, wklie said:

Lumin app currently supports both the Tidal OAuth2 login for Lumin hardware with the latest Lumin firmware, and the deprecated login method for compatible OpenHome renderer, as announced in this post:

 

We have not removed the support for OpenHome Tidal yet, until Tidal decides to remove the old login method.

Thanks - the Lumin app (iphone) successfully logs into Tidal and also finds HQPlayer, but payback will not occur on non-Lumin hardware because of the need to create an OpenHome Renderer using Bubbleupnp.  So same problem really (unless you use Mconnect which uses upnp or your use Linn hardware).

[bubbleguuum]

1 hour ago, wklie said:

Lumin app currently supports both the Tidal OAuth2 login for Lumin hardware with the latest Lumin firmware, and the deprecated login method for compatible OpenHome renderer, as announced in this post:

 

We have not removed the support for OpenHome Tidal yet, until Tidal decides to remove the old login method.

 

Good stuff! This should allow BubbleDS/BubbleUPnP (on Android) to login and access to OpenHome TIDAL on Lumin hardware, as it uses the old login method. Since I have no Lumin hardware, I'd be grateful if you could quickly test that it still works (it worked before). I know some users uses Lumin hardware in conjunction with BubbleDS/BubbleUPnP: that's how I learned TIDAL login was broken with previous Lumin firmware.

 

Also I saw that you implemented OpenHome TIDAL Oauth2 with a new tidal.oauth2 Credentials service id.

Linn implemented it with a new OAuth2 OpenHome UPnP service (for which they have not published the spec but would send it if asked I think)

This proliferation of custom methods to login to TIDAL with OpenHome using oauth2 is not great, although I sort of understand why it happened.

This situation makes me not want to support either in BubbleDS/BubbleUPnP, and just stick with the app's own non-OpenHome TIDAL support which works with all renderer types (OpenHome, UPnP AV, ...) at the expense of requiring to leave the app running.

[wklie]

I quadruple checked the OpenHome specs update for Tidal OAuth2, and searched for any hints from OpenHome renderer manufacturers till the last moment from the original Tidal deadline, but failed to find any before we started our own proprietary implementation.

 

If an open interface becomes available, I can look at it and see if there's anything that can be done.

[dapost]

Hi folks,

 

I am using Linn Kazoo as a control point to an openhome (server+AV media player-renderer) installed on a Mac. 

I see the Qobuz tile but not the Tidal one. Have tried configuring Kazoo tiles with Kazoo konfig with no luck. 

Any suggestions?

(Note that I can listen to both Tidal and Qobuz when using BubbleDS as the control point, although openhome crashes quite often.)