HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[MikePid]

I’ve joined the M1 HQPlayer club 😀.  I picked up a refurbished 8GB from Apple.

 

I’ve set up the M1 exclusively for HQP, with Roon on my 2012 rMBP, and ultraRendu NAA.  It was easy to set up, and I’ll post my setup instructions when I get a chance.  Basically, I turned off all the good Apple stuff, so that HQP is the only thing running on it (plus Activity Monitor for now so I can watch CPU load).  I set it up with a separate Apple ID so I could configure it for auto-login and screen sharing without worrying about security in case someone steals it.

 

I transferred the HQP license, and now have it set to DSD256, with ASDM5EC, and ext3 for 1x.  Wow!  Jussi hit it out of the park with this on the M1.  75% CPU with no stutters.  90% on the performance cores, and 60% on the efficiency cores.  The M1 is barely warm.  The sound is so realistic it is scary!  Thanks Jussi!  For nX, I needed to set it to ext2 to get no stutters.
 

I first started with my max settings on the MacBook Pro i7 (DSD256/5V2 256+fs/ext2) and CPU usage was about 25% on main cores, and zero on efficiency cores.  On my laptop, fans were running high (using TGpro) to keep temps just under 80C. No fans kicking in (that I can hear) on the M1 with 5EC and ext3.  7EC gaps every 10s with ext3 though.  So when I get a chance I’ll compare 5EC/ext3 with 7EC/ext2 to see which I prefer.  What a luxury to have this choice!

 

For me, this was a no-brainer upgrade!

 

[MikePid]

6 months ago I bought a refurbished Mac mini M1 8GB from Apple, exclusively for HQPlayer.  I’m totally happy with it.  DSD256 with EC and most filters!  Keep in mind that Mac’s CoreAudio only supports DoP, so having a NAA can allow native DSD.  For me, it meant a huge bump up in sound quality because I no longer needed to decide whether to use DSD128 with EC, or DSD256 without DSD.  Now I can do both, plus I don’t have to listen to my laptop fans running at high speed.  Great bang for the buck!

[MikePid]

Has anyone tried Monterey on the mini M1?  With the new ECv2 modulators 😀, it is running near the CPU limit on Big Sur.  Wondering if Monterey makes things better or worse for HQP performance?  I'm hesitant to upgrade in case performance isn't as good.  (if it ain't broke, don't fix it)

 

It is very stable with DSD256 7ECv2 gauss-long for 1x and just gauss for Nx.  The mini M1's only purpose in life is for HQPlayer.  (My DAC does not support 48k well, so needing to do rate conversion to 44k for any 48k/96k source.)  

[MikePid]

14 minutes ago, camott said:

I am running Monterey and this exact same setup also works for me, except that I get dropouts with 192k source content. Using a lighter filter like poly-sinc-short-2s does work for 192k.

 

Can you try your setup with 192k source material and see if it plays without drops? If so, I might try going back to Big Sur.

Sorry, I have no 192k source to try.  I'd be curious to know if Big Sur works better than Monterey for HQP.  I'm staying on Big Sur for now.

[MikePid]

I just tried DSD64>DSD256 using 7ECv2, and it works fine.  Performance cores at or slightly above 90% each.

 

Amazing that the mini M1 is barely warm even when pushed to the max continuously.

[MikePid]

31 minutes ago, camott said:

Any chance you could try playing this free demo file from 2L and see it works?? http://www.lindberg.no/hires/test/2L-106/2L-106_stereo_PCM-192k_MAGNIFICAT_04.flac

 

When I run it with DSD256 ECv2 and poly-sinc-gauss on Monterey I get a brief dropout every 10 - 20 seconds.

 

 

Same results as you - dropouts. Are you using DSD256 at 44k or 48k?  I have to rate covert to 44k.

 

We need settings for 1x, 2x and Nx 🤣.

[MikePid]

I'm getting rare dropouts with 96k into DSD256x44k with poly-sinc-gauss.  Like once per track. Yeah, right on the edge.  

 

Sounds like Monterey might be no better or no worse.

[MikePid]

I just tried 192k>DSD256x44 with 5ECv2 instead of 7ECv2 and it still has dropouts.  But 96k seems ok so far🤞.  5ECv2 is about 1% lighter on the CPU than 7ECv2.  Talk about right on the margin!

 

That's why I'd like to understand if Monterey makes any difference at all.  Unless it helps HQPlayer, I'll stick to Big Sur. None of the new features are useful for a headless music player.

[MikePid]

Just tried 96k>44xDSD256 7ECv2 with poly-sinc-gauss again, but without Activity Monitor running, and the rare dropouts are gone.  Cutting it close or what!

[MikePid]

MacOS does not support native DSD output, but rather DoP. That cuts the max DSD rate in half. NAA will allow you to use native DSD. 
 

Also, if you have another Mac, you can control HQPlayer on the mini through Screen Sharing (that’s how I do it).  You can probably use the builtin Sidecar instead of Luna as another option to connect your iPad.

[MikePid]

Whichever way is going to give HQPlayer as much CPU to run as possible.  Screen Sharing seems to take almost no CPU.  Luna is very efficient too (I have one too, but for TB port not USB-C), so it would be interesting know which uses fewer resources.  I found that quitting Activity Monitor rather than watching the CPU was what helped me run 96K>DSD256 with 7ECv2 and poly-sing-gauss without the occasional dropout.  Living on the edge 😅

 

I left iCloud turned off for my mini M1, and I think Universal Control might need to be on the same iCloud account.  Screen Sharing just needs to be on the same network.

[MikePid]

NAA allows you to bypass CoreAudio.  CoreAudio doesn't know what DSD is, but you can have something like HQPlayer disguise it as PCM using DoP.  You just to make sure your DAC can support a sufficient PCM rate to get the resulting DSD rate you want.  DoP didn't seem to add any processor load, or affect the sound quality for me.  In my case, my DAC only accepts input up to DSD256/PCM756, so DoP limited me to DSD128.

 

From my experience, going from DSD128 to DSD256 was more beneficial than choice of modulators or filters.  Getting DSD256 plus the best modulators and filters is heaven!

[MikePid]

50 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

MikePid

Have you tried a suitable TB to USB-C adapter for the Luna dongle?

No I haven’t. I don’t have an adapter like this, and I’m happy with using Screen Sharing with my Mac laptop to control HQP settings. Music and volume are controlled from my various Roon devices (mostly iPad).

 

I bought Luna so I can use my iPad and Pencil for LightRoom editing on my Mac. 

[MikePid]

Yes, I temporarily hooked up a screen, keyboard and mouse to set up the mini then disconnected them (and I’ve never needed to hook them back up). I set screen sharing on my laptop, and installed HQP, and leave it on all the time. I set up auto login and auto boot so it all comes back online automatically after a power failure. I use a different login with no access to any email or cloud stuff, so if someone steals my mini, all they can get at is HQP and none of my personal stuff. 
 

I don’t know if screen sharing works on iPad, so maybe you need to use Luna for that.  

[MikePid]

I bought the Mac mini M1 exclusively for HQPlayer, and I prefer to give HQP as much of its resources as possible - I’m running the heaviest modulator/filter combinations that are right at the limits of what this amazing workhorse can deliver.  As such, I am avoiding running anything that could compete with HQP for resources.  Screen Sharing is surprisingly efficient (seems to use <1% of one core, likely an underused efficiency core).  Not sure what kind of load Screens4 would add.  If you aren’t pushing the mini to the limit like me, it looks like it has more flexibility. 

[MikePid]

I’ve been using the 8GB model and HQP runs comfortably on it.  16GB is a good idea for future-proofing - who knows, you might need more RAM when Jussi releases ASDM9ECv4 with poly-sinc-gauss-xxxxxxla and ext7 🤣

[MikePid]

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but this is what I did to set up my headless mini M1, dedicated for HQPlayer, using Roon/Tidal and screen-sharing from another Mac, so you might need to change a few things (e.g. if you aren't going headless or playing local files):

- temporarily hook up a screen, keyboard and mouse, and optionally Ethernet cable

- do the initial set-up (region, wifi access, unique username/password - I used a username of HQPlayer)

- do not enable the following:

   - Siri, Spotlight, Location services

   - iCloud services (mail, photos, contacts, news, iCloud Drive, calendars, reminders, keychain, handoff, etc.)

   - Screen Time

- In Display: disable screen saver

- In Notifications: disable all

- In internet accounts: disable all

- In Security/Privacy: enable automatic login, disable screen lock

   - this is why you need a unique login, in case someone steals your mini, they don't get access to anything except HQPlayer

- In Software Update: automatically keep up to date; this will not do the annual major updates, just the "dot" releases

- Turn off bluetooth

- In Energy Saver:

   - set computer to never sleep

   - wake for network access

   - startup automatically after power failure

   - never turn display off (needed for screen sharing, but if you aren't headless, then you can set it to what you want)

- Sharing: enable screen sharing (if headless)

- remove most apps from Dock

- create shortcut to Signalyst website for HQPlayer updates

 

- download and install HQPlayer (ARM64 MacOS)

- install licence

- add HQPlayer to Dock

- In User Groups: put HQPlayer into Login Items so it always starts up on power-up

- configure HQPlayer to see your NAA/DAC, and also your filter/modulator/etc settings

- test it out, including unplugging power (to test auto restart)

- if going headless, set up screen sharing on the other computer, and once that is working, disconnect screen, keyboard and mouse

   - if have never needed to use screen, keyboard and mouse since I set it up 6 months ago

 

If anyone else has other suggestions, or finds errors, I can update this post later

 

 

[MikePid]

42 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

@MikePid

 

Thank you for your most useful reply.

1. Can the install be done without using Roon?

2. What is "headless"?

1. Your music needs to come from somewhere.  If you are storing your library on the mini and using HQP to play it, I don't think anything needs to change for the install.

2. headless means no screen/monitor and keyboard/mouse.  You can run it with screen and keyboard/mouse too.  I just wanted something small that sits out of the way in my audio rack like my other boxes, so I didn't want a screen and keyboard.  I don't think there is any performance hit either way.

 

Good luck with setting things up.  I am really glad I went with this set up.  the mini M1 is an amazing box for the money, which lets me do DSD256 with ECv2.  Currently back to ext2 from guass-long, but it is a real luxury to have so many options!  And the mini is dead quiet and not warm at all despite pushing the performance cores to their limit.

[MikePid]

Check that Default Output Mode is SDM(DSD).  I made that mistake several times in my early days with HQPlayer 😉

HQPlayer settings 2021-11-26.tiff

[MikePid]

15 hours ago, Schafheide said:

@MikePid

Given all of the PCM & DSD default options, how does one chose each one? Is it just pot luck or is there some guidance that you take into account?

Also, the only way that my DAC was an option in Device, was if I selected CoreAudio in Backend. - Why?

Also, what is NetWorkAudioAdapter IPv6?

Sorry to bombard you with all these questions.

Your questions about all of the choices is common for those new to HQPlayer.  What I did was follow the various forum threads like this one and try what others are doing.  There is no right answer, only your answer.  And the DAC and other equipment all have an affect too!  The good news is that it is hard to go wrong with the choices as they are all good.  Most strive to experiment to see what is better.  My choices come from what others say sounds good to them, and if I like it then I stick with that for a while until someone suggests other settings.

 

The Network Audio Adapter setting is so my mini M1 sends the music over ethernet to my NAA (ultraRendu) rather than through CoreAudio and USB.  That allows me to send native DSD out of the Mac instead of DoP.  It also provides some noise isolation.  

 

To answer one of your later questions, there should be no difference in sound with native DSD vs. DSP, it is just that DoP takes twice the bandwidth, so for my DAC which accepts only up to DSD256, if I use DoP I can only upsample to DSD128.  So if you hit a limitation like that, then there is a sound quality difference, but that is because of the sample rate not DoP itself.  

 

A forum like this is the right place for asking all your good questions.  Also check the other HQPlayer topics.  I have been using HQPlayer for more than 3 years, and I still have questions!

 

Best advice I've heard here is to enjoy the music.  Most of us enjoy the music more when it sounds better, which is why we keep looking for other settings!  The trifecta of DSD256, EC (or ECv2) modulators, and either poly-sinc-gauss-long or poly-sinc-ext2 seems to what many mini M1 have recently settled on for 44.1k source.  Don't stress about it, just play!

[MikePid]

From what some people say, rates above DSD256 have diminishing returns.  DSD256 seems to be a sweet spot, except for the die-hards and fanatics (which is probably most people on this forum 🤣).  Since your DAC can handle higher DoP rates, you should be fine with DoP.

 

There's a saying I've seen a few times around here:  some people use music to listen to their equipment, and others use their equipment to listen to their music.

[MikePid]

@Schafheide

That is odd the internet isn't working.  Just go to System Preferences > Network, and look at the Ethernet and Wifi settings and see if anything is odd there.

Not sure why buffer settings would be greyed out in HQP.

[MikePid]

I think Schafheide is talking about output buffer time, not buffer size.  I have mine set to 250ms at the moment (which is the maximum).

[MikePid]

@miska

does output buffer time have any effect on Mac to HQP NAA?  If so, is there a recommended value, and is there a downside to a value higher than needed?

[MikePid]

1 hour ago, Schafheide said:

@AudioDoctor

You were correct - M1/HQP to NAS via Ethernet is much snappier than Wifi (even though this is not the case with Auralic). Next the NAA. Thank you for your patience.

Another audiophile falls down the rabbit hole 🤣