ALLO USBridge Signature

[zackthedog]

I've got a new Allo USB Sig and Shanti LPS.  I'm *very* impressed.  I tried the old Allo USB and the DigiOne and neither stayed in the main system, but this is a keeper.  Feeding my new Topping DX7 Pro it's exceptionally clean and transparent.  Good studio recordings take on the quality of live performances because of the immediacy of the sound.  For the time being I've settled on RopieeeXL driven by Audirvana because I prefer Audirvana's drag-and-drop functionality and it's ability to play just about any type of file format.  RopieeeXL is new to me, and as a renderer it *really* steps out of the way!  I've also tried Moode Audio, which as a standalone player is very good.  Volumio works too, but be sure you download the most recent image from Allo's support page, otherwise you may have ethernet problems.  They all have a slightly different sound sig, Volumio being the "warmest" to my ears, but all three deliver up to the max resolution of the DAC, including DSD, with no problems.  I find  DietPi complicated and fussy, and it offers no benefit to me over the others, but I might try it again.

 

I recently built a pair of reproduction Williamson "Musician's Amplifier" monoblocks with original Peerless output transformers, driving my old ProAc Response 2's.  I didn't realize what they were capable of until I added the USB Sig to my system!

[zackthedog]

30 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Thanks for your post, very valuable information!

Can you please elaborate further why you prefer RopieeeXL over the other two renderers?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

I had never tried Ropieee before.  I think there's an absolute minimum of software involved, it's only function being to act as a renderer for Roon or a DLNA client.  It just seems clearer and cleaner than Moode or Volumio with Audirvana.

[zackthedog]

5 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Did you notice any issues in the interplay between Audirvana and RopieeeXL?

Did you try upsampling to the higher rate DSD with Audirvana and playback via RopieeeXL?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

Funny you should ask.  Last night it worked, and then it didn't.  I didn't have time to examine it.  Let me experiment this evening and get back to you.  It may have been that I changed the filter setting on the DAC.

[zackthedog]

3 hours ago, naum said:

Does RopideeXL have ASIX drivers?

 

I don't know. 😉

 

Okay here's the story:

 

RopieeeXL will not do DSD with the Topping DX7 Pro.

Volumio and Moode, if you use the images from Allo support, will do DSD, standalone or with Audirvana upsampling.  No glitches that I can hear.

[zackthedog]

5 hours ago, dontfeedphils said:

 

I have to disagree with this a bit, as SPDIF (IMO) sounds "darker" because USB, to a certain degree, seems to always carry RFI/EMI/etc into the analog section of the DAC. Leading to a brighter signature and the illusion of increased detail and clarity. 

 

Every DAC I've ever tested has sounded brighter using USB. 

 

I've always preferred USB to coax.  Is it because it sounds more "natural" or because it adds a comforting layer of analogue-like "hash" to the sound?  Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying the Digione Sig with my USB Sig.

[zackthedog]

Speaking of which, the Digione Signature arrived this morning.  Had to disassemble the whole rig to get it on the USBridge Sig, but got it all set up and fit into the new box.  Took a few reboots for Moode to recognize the Digione but it's working fine now.  I have to say I'm very impressed.  The Digione+/RPi had a touch of that coax "glare" to my ears, but I don't hear that now.  Just playing PCM and I have to figure out what the limitations are, but it sounds great with the Moode player or Audirvana.  I'll let it break in a while before I start comparing it with USB.

[zackthedog]

41 minutes ago, suzywong said:

So as it seems that  DietPi does not work and Volumio does appear to work, I’m thinking that there must be something that DietPi “has” and that Volumio “does not have”?

 

Otherwise why not show switch to Volumio?

 

DietPi's GMRenderer can sound, to my ears, a bit more transparent than Volumio.  DietPi also offers many more options for renderers than Volumio, including HQPlayer NAA, MPD, LMS etc.  But it's a little frustrating to work with, I'm never sure which version is going to work.

[zackthedog]

6 hours ago, franz159 said:

I have never used GMRenderer, but my "multi renderer" system of choice is Moode, which afaik runs nicely on the USBridge Sig. You might want to give it a try?

 

I do use Moode and like it very much.  It seemed to me that the commenter was wondering why one would use DietPi if it was being fussy.  I was just observing that some people like the options it affords.

[zackthedog]

With Moode, I've loaded files directly to the eMMC public folder and played them back directly from the OS drive.  I know this isn't supposed to be best practice, but the results are pretty amazing.  I haven't heard the SD card player, though I'd like to at some point.  I wonder how close this comes.  I still use Audirvana with the USBridge/Digione Sig as a renderer because I like the drag-and-drop capability of Audirvana, but of course you can do this with LMS as well.

[zackthedog]

Another possibility would be to get a wireless bridge and a network switch.  Connect the switch to the bridge, then connect the LMS server and the Digione to the switch.  That way they will share a wired connection but both will also have access to your home internet.

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, dkskl said:

Could just be the solution.

Thanks ztd

 

The TOTOLINK N300 even has four ethernet ports so you could dispense with the switch.  There are other similar devices, that one gets pretty good reviews.  Of course, it's probably not an "audiophile" quality switch, if you care about that. 😉.   Either way, that's probably the easiest solution.

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, gstew said:

@Heckyman and anyone else interested,

The SD Card Players such as the SDTrans384 and DIY'd ones based on inexpensive ones from EBay CAN provide a very good I2S source for feeding an I2S-connected DAC, either DIY or the few commercially available ones. In addition, the SDTrans384 includes a wired S/PDIF output and a PS Audio-style I2S-over-HDMI cable output for use with other DACs. AND with a bit of DIY work you can add those to the inexpensive EBay units.

Benefits CAN BE a top-notch I2S feed for great sound. Of course that is all dependent on power supplies, clocks, good (and for native I2S, SHORT!) signal routing, and other implementation details. Use of one of these is not by itself a guarantee of good results.

Drawbacks are due to the limited source material you can fit on an SD Card... typically the units will operate with 32Gb or 64Gb cards max. AND the SDTrans384 won't read compressed files, which for PCM limits you to non-compressed WAV files. I have a likely mid-sized library of roughly 1.5Tb of music files, most in FLAC, so roughly 2Tb uncompressed. You have to deal with making the music you want to hear available to use on the player, which can be setting up a process for easily copying it to an SD card or pre-loading a bunch of cards with your preferred music and cataloging which card contains what. Definitely back to the stone-age (or vinyl / CD age) for content management. AND they don't support streaming at all, though with some care and advanced DIY'ing, I suspect you can create a setup that supports both.

As I've posted here and other places, I implemented an SDTrans384 setup in an effort to get a good reference for my DIY efforts. It has served well in that capacity for several years. In my thirst for the best sound, I'd put up with limited and kludgy access to my music library. Over that time some upgrades to both the SDTrans384 and the attached Soekris DAM DAC along with the attendant power supplies have kept them at the forefront. In Mid-2018 I modified a couple RPi 2B with LDOVR.COM's RPi Mezzanine board to replace the RPi's DC-DC converters with good linear regulation, I felt that setup with the best power supplies I then used put an RPi-based network player at roughly the same level as the SDTrans384 sourced setup when used with basic power supplies. While that configuration didn't challenge the SDT/SDD combo's sonic supremacy in my setups, it was getting into the same range.

My recent moves to the USBBridge Signature as an RPi replacement AND Uptone Audio's EtherRegen as my switch have together made such a difference that I suspect once I take the time to compare the SDTrans84-connected Soekris DAC setup to my RPi/USBBridge Sig-connected one, now the SQ difference may be so small that the limitations and headaches of using the SD-Card players may no longer be worthwhile. I'll try that sometime next year and report back.


More info:

SDTrans384:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project.html

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/260565-gb-sdtrans384-micro-sd-card-digital-transport.html?highlight=sdtrans384

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3705


Other SDCard Players:

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3750&start=20

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/285630-sd-card-memory-flac-wav-192-24-player-ess-crescendo-ii-ak4495-dv20a.html

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55533-audiophile-sd-card-transport/page/6/

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55818-qls-quloos-qa361-dap-as-servertransportplayer/?tab=comments

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4682

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/ (currently offering USB-Stick players, used to offer SD Card Players)


Greg in Mississippi

 

Thanks for the update, Greg, this is very interesting stuff.  

 

This morning it occurred to me to connect the Allo USBridge Sig/DigiOne Sig box directly to my Mac MIni with an ethernet bridge.  I haven't always found this to be an improvement but it definitely was here.  I'm sure there are more tweaks to try but I'm very, very happy with the Allo.

[zackthedog]

Had a very sharped-eared musician friend over for a listening session today, someone whose ears I absolutely trust.  He preferred the Allo USB output to the coax, and I can understand why.  It is a bit more natural, though he admitted that the coax output had more "weight" and accuracy.  So I suppose it depends on your goals and sonic tastes.  We did compare the Allo to a straight USB from the Mac Mini.  The straight USB connection is a jolly sound, not bad at all, but the Allo adds clarity and refinement, so I'm resting comfortable with my purchase.  We did, however, have to switch to Volumio because Moode still has problems with very hi-res files, pops and glitches.  Volumio sounds fine, but I hope they get this kernel thing straightened out across the board so one has more options.

[zackthedog]

7 hours ago, dkskl said:

I have googled the TotoLink N300, but I can only see one ethernet port on the unit...

Do you by any chance have a link..? 

 

I was looking at this one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/TOTOLINK-N300RT-Access-Wireless-300Mbps/dp/B01F5JYBTQ/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Totolink+n300&qid=1576508273&sr=8-2

[zackthedog]

19 hours ago, Audio_Allo said:

You can download USBridgeSig 4.14.92 kernel based Moode OS from below link

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/moode/4.14.92-OS/moode-r531-rpi-41492.img.7z

 

Thank you!

[zackthedog]

I got Gentooplayer up and running on my USB Sig with Audirvana and it's very nice, very transparent.

[zackthedog]

54 minutes ago, naum said:

Thank you all for info about Ifi Ipower 5v. I already have LPS with two 5V output (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32901930319.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.d2494c4d3nIIKz). I use one for ProJect PreBox S2 digital Dac and another for USbridgeSig. I would buy Shanti later, but for now I want to know if Ifi would be better than my LPS..
P.S. About microSD for USBSig, what would be optimal speed. Will simple class 10 card be ok? Or I need faster card (U3)?

 

Regarding the LPS, I'm open to correction, but I think the super-capacitor supplies like the Shanti are better than a plain LPS.  Perhaps someone else can explain better.

 

I also would like to know the best card to use.  My eMMC got corrupted and I haven't been able to recover it but I need to spend a little time with it and see if I can get it working again.  I thought it sounded a bit better than an SD card.

[zackthedog]

5 hours ago, clipper said:

These steps come from https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/67719/how-do-i-install-the-drivers-for-a-wifi-dongle-with-the-realtek-8812au-chipset-o.  The key is MrEngman's install script.

 

sudo wget http://www.fars-robotics.net/install-wifi -O /usr/bin/install-wifi

 

sudo chmod +x /usr/bin/install-wifi

 

sudo install-wifi

 

sudo reboot

 

When it reboots you should be able to scan for networks (in Moode's web interface), find your SSID, and enter the password.

 

 

That's helpful, thanks.  I was thinking of experimenting with WiFi.

[zackthedog]

27 minutes ago, TamaChan said:

Dear all

 

I am a newbie here, I do not (yet) have a USBridge sig, but his will soon change, and I am searching some info in order to understand correctly how to set up my Hifi system. (or at least the "dematerialized" part, since I already have the preamp/amplifier (Nad vintage), speaker (vintage cabasse), the DAC....

 

 I have looked about the Hardware part of the Usbridge (and mainly understand enough I think). I understand also the importance of power supply to have a clear stable outpout USB signal.

 

*However, I may not understand the software choices/part of it and discussion/ topics about OS and players.

 

 In comparison, in my desktop Windows (operating system - OS), in order to play a local file ( on a mounted hard drive) to my USB DAC, I need a driver( to bypass any OS mixer or sound card for instance) and a software (foobar / winamp) and I have a bitperfect reading of my file to my DAC(volume is managed at the pre-Amp, after the DAC). (As long as the OS-Drivers-Software are compatible, the signal to the DAC should be the same, whatever version of windows, and which software I am using).

 

Am I correct here ?

 

 

 

I understand that the USBridge give me full access to a raspi Compute Module, that there are a few choices of OS (DietPi, Volumio, ...). I know that Linux based OS and software are less "compatible" than windows one (you cannot easily install any soft in any OS) but, instead, OS comes with a choice of software you can install at the same time (Ex from dietpi : Kodi as a player, realVNCServer, Samba etc.) .  I understand also that there are software for streaming (so they need a server/client LMS/Squeezebox for instance) but after that I begin to be lost...

 

(Hoping I am right on the point I think I understand… 🙂 )

 

 

 

So here I have two kind of interrogation/question (that maybe are linux newbies ones and maybe should I ask in other topic. please tell me! ) :

 

1/ about sound "quality" : when I read that the choice of the OS/Sofware (and driver I assume) change the sound (and so i suppose the signal sent to the DAC 😞 Does that mean that there combo Os/Drivers/Software are not bitperfect ? Or that bitperfect is a myth here - and more important why ?

 

 

 

2/ About software - compatibility etc. : How can I know the compatibility of a linux sofware with a Usbridge and an os ?

 

I do not understand what I am reading around on that kind of subject (where post seems to address at the same time OS/Server/player ... It remind me of post about Android ROM and app that you can or cannot install afterwards on other ROM.)

 

two example :

 

I am searching a player (simple player, bitperfect, able to play *folders* -and not tag-indexed databases-: for instance foobar, vlc) : how can I search and see if it is compatible with Usbride / Diepi or Moode ?

 

E.g : Can I download/use VLC ( cf. https://www.videolan.org/vlc/ ) : which package use : Debian ?  If not, why I cannot use / compile etc ?

 

 

 

Other example to how can I know/check if a software developed for "standard" linux would work on the Usbridge/OS : Veracrypt

 

E.g. Veracrypt propose some package for debian 9/10 etc  : https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Downloads.html

 

Can I use veracrypt on a usbridge ? How canI know ? how can I make it work ?

 

 

 

Thank you all for your consideration here.

 

 

 

Tama

 

 

 

Nota: just for information about my philosophy:

 

Personally, I am more interested in the player part of the USbridge, than the streamer. I do not need network connection (in fact, once initial configuration is done, I do not want to connect the player to the internet.

 

To manage the player, I consider to have either an ad-hoc wifi network with dedicated android tablet or a direct RJ45 wiht Real VNC for instance. Hoping it would work.

 

For source, I intend to use a SSD/HDD, either directly on the usbridge, or through a dedicated synology nas (that would not be connected to anything else. Again, ad-hoc very local network…).

 

 

 

 

Lots' of questions there, but I understand what you are trying to do.  Let me see if I can help.

 

The Allo USB Sig is a specially designed board to produce the cleanest possible USB signal to your DAC.  The Shanti power supply is designed to make the Allo sound best, and the very light Linux OS's are also designed to reduce noise and keep the signal as clean as possible.

 

The USBridge can act in two ways: 

 

1) It can be used as a "renderer."  In other words, it acts as an "end point" for software like Roon, Audirvana, JRiver Media Center, Foobar or other playback software.  For instance, in JRiver Media Center, in the "Player" list, you will see the Allo listed as a UPnP device.  JRiver will send the music to the Allo, which will send it to the DAC.  There are a lot of ways to use this "renderer" function. but basically the Allo presents itself on the network as ready to receive a music signal from some other computer.

 

The point of a renderer is to allow remote playback, but also to reduce to Allo computer function to the minimum.  It *only* passes the music along to your DAC.

 

2) Depending on what software you choose, you can use the Allo as a standalone player.  For instance, with Volumio, you can set it up as a music catalog and playback device.  Connect your library to the Allo and you can then control this player from a pad or phone.  This uses more resources, but the minimal software again reduces noise and complexity.

 

In your case, if I understand what you want to do, you could use a WiFi router as a closed system.  You could connect a NAS and the Allo to the router with ethernet cables, to ensure fastest transfer of files.  Then you can control the Allo with a laptop, pad or phone.

 

It would be better to use a NAS than to connect a USB storage device to the Allo.

 

Regarding file system access to your music, I need this too.  Any MPD or LMS player (found in Moode, Volumio, Gentooplayer, DietPi and others) will have the option to view file folders.

 

Does this help answer your questions?

 

 

[zackthedog]

4 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

Ok, I have found out why I have had so much trouble with Allo Digital products and the Ayre Codex. It's a bug in Linux. My symptoms are that the unit may not work or it might work for a song or two but it will eventually crash the connection with the DAC. 

 

See here. https://support.auralic.com/hc/en-us/articles/206602837

 

I've purchased an Ultrarendu and a couple of hours later, throwing MQA, hi-res, and regular files at it, Roon is just chugging away. 

 

I wonder if the UAC2 fix in Moode Audio addresses this with the Allo.  But glad the ultraRendu is working for you.

[zackthedog]

25 minutes ago, TamaChan said:

Hello,
Thank you for both for your answers and sorry for the delay on my side, but ... times fly, especially with a baby (and especially when you do not want to expose him to screen....)
 

@zackthedog 

thanks lots for the explanation. Will keep that in mind for testing setup and listenning to differences.

 

For the use of the USbridge as "endpoint", player or only "to pass the signal", I have just another interrogation, intending to understand the reasons.

 

Why it is better to use the compute module as minimum as possible ?

is this because:

 

Same questoin for :

 

Is it because, using a external server reduce the noise (coming from the processor etc.) in the Allo-Usbridge ?

I thought the Allo-USbirdge module would reduce or even cancel that noise...

 

This would also answer why "we" sould not bother to install to muche software on the light OS.

(if needed, for compatibility I would adress in OS topics and or software forums (trying to have full dependencies on linux packages ...)

 

A+

(A+ = is not english, but translate as  "see you soon")

 

The Allo is designed to provide as noise-free USB output as possible.  But it needs us to help. 😉. Use minimal OS to reduce work load on the CPU and keep activity to a minimum, and avoid adding devices that increase load.  The theory is that ethernet provides best isolation for incoming information like music, so a NAS is better than an added load on USB port.  Does that make sense?   

[zackthedog]

2 hours ago, Cundis said:

Now when the USbridge is broken in I can write a little mini review about it. 

Compared to DigiOne Signature it is more refined I think. If I can draw a parallel to food it can be compared to a steak that is perfect cooked with just the right amount of seasoning vs a steak that is more raw and not given that much thought in the preparation. 

 

In sound terms it sounds big, refined, deep soundstage, very well balanced from top to bottom. You can definitely hear that noise is taken well care of. 

 

When it comes to the DigiOne Signature that sits on top of the USbridge it sounds better than it did as stand alone streamer. Blacker background I would say. Maybe a little more attack and fullness in the bass.

 

As a result I love them both, sometimes the DigiOne Signature can be a little more dynamic, so on some music I can have a hard time choosing between the two. Most often I choose USbridge because it is a little bit cleaner and smoother in the treble. 

 

BUT; I've ordered a Shanti, so things can change. Right now I use a SBooster on USbridge and the standard switch mode on the Digione Signature. So it will be exciting to see how the DigiOne Signature responds to a better power supply. 

 

Well done Allo! 

 

 

If there is something I would set on a whish list it is information about older DigiOne Signatures that needs to be modified to be able to power up from the USbridge. Thankfully I got help from a member here what to do! 

 

I think with the Shanti powering both the USBridge and the Digione you will find the Digione ultra-clean.  I prefer USB for it's slightly more analogue-like sound, but the Digione is very punchy and "accurate" and gives you a more "exact" sense of the original recording, if that's what you want.  

[zackthedog]

8 minutes ago, clipper said:

Yes.  I thought the Shanti was much better than the stock SMPS.

 

 

Yes, I have a stock Allo supply.  The Shanti is a perfect match and turns the Allo USB Sig from a "nice gadget" to "it stays in the system."

[zackthedog]

Yes, it takes a few days to relax and sound more natural.

[zackthedog]

3 hours ago, smith123 said:

Thinking of buying the USBridge Signature Player. I will only use it with a USB-DAC so no need for a DigiOne Signature.

 

I had a DigiOne player (non signature) in the past and was happy with its audio performance (with ALLO:S SMPS). Would the USBridge Signature Player with the SMPS maybe be on a similar level? I would prefer to wait with the Shanti, if it's not a must have.

 

I would only use one of the two Shanti outputs with the USBridge Signature anyhow?

 

 

  

 

 

 

You can certainly buy the Shanti later, but I don't think you'll hear what the USBridge Sig can do without it.