Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[davide256]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm sure people know this, but there are 2 types of updates: system updates and feature updates. System updates include an OS change, and require a reboot, while feature updates only affect the Stylus web app code, and do not require a reboot. The "Previous release" only reflects the last system update. Over the last few months, the updates have all been feature updates, hence the lack of movement in the previous release.

 

As for people having trouble with Roon, here's my experience. Prior to the 0709 release, my Roon install on 0430 was up to date with Roon build 572. Here is one unfortunate flaw in the 0709 build: it has an out of date Roon version (build 505) installed. As a result, after the 0709 update, when you start Roon, you're running build 505 against your database that is updated to build 572. I think this is the cause of the issues, and I hope Željko can figure out how to include the current build of Roon in future system updates.

 

In my case, this was not a major catastrophe, but I did have some issues. On first start of Roon+StylusEP, my Roon client required me to login. This login took quite long (>5 mins). Finally, I got the Roon UI, along with the familiar update prompt. I then updated the Core to build 572, and yes, this caused a DB rebuild, which didn't take too long. Upon restart, I was again prompted for my Roon login (very odd), another looooong login process, and finally the UI came up. I then had a spinning circle up top, indicating Roon Core was rescanning a bunch of stuff, but it finally settled down. 

 

I suspect all this could have been easier if this Euphony OS build had included the latest Roon build.

experienced same. Thanks for the explanation.

[davide256]

8 hours ago, edwardsean said:

So, if I'm following this correctly:

 

All the traditional SQ benefits of using a NAS instead of a directly attached drive, and the sonic issues of an SSD, no longer apply with Euphony buffering songs to RAM?

Nope. Buffering to RAM improves NUC performance ... it doesn’t fix source issues

[davide256]

On 8/5/2020 at 8:49 PM, edwardsean said:

This is the message I got from Željko:

 

"I often hear that people avoid SSDs because they think SSD is noisy even when not being actively read but that probably varies from one SSD to the next and I don't really expect you will be able to hear the difference when playing from RAM unless your system is already ultra resolving."

 

I spent some time comparing an external SD Card and SSD. My system is very resolving, and I do think there is a slight difference. There did seem to be a–slightly–excited upper mid/highs which is consistent with increased noise. It also just sounds a bit more clear. However, as he said, playing from RAM, it was not a major difference. 

 

Since the audio file is not playing directly from SSD but RAM, we are talking about just the noise emission of having it plugged in and powered. 

IME SSD  has more glare than SDXC when bus or USB attached to 1 box NUC solution...but they are both bright in the treble and thin in the midrange compared to ordinary

WD red HD used in my Synology NAS. This might not show with DAC's that are "midrange challenged", did remind me a lot of when I used JPlay. The nice thing about NAS

is that other than throughput speed and capacity, few claim to hear a sound difference between models from the competent brands like Synology and QNAP

[davide256]

FWIW I'm finally getting better sound  results using the RAM mode with Euphony than normal mode. I had broken my Audiophonics cable for external USB 5

volts before replacing a Gumby with Chord Mojo, without it the  sound irritant level increased whenever I switched to RAM mode with both DAC's. Running

 a Y Ghent DC cable from an LPS 1.2 as external PS to the Mojo and as 5V USB into the Mojo using the Audiophonics adaptor cable has resulted in a smoother

sound using RAM mode, no more irritants. Improvement over normal mode is subtle, just a greater sense of ease in playback of complex passage..

[davide256]

I've finally given in and purchased embedded HQPlayer to use with Stylus for up conversion. When I was using NOS DAC's limited to 192khz  HQPlayer

didn't really help but now that I have a DSD capable DAC with higher up-sampling rates, embedded  HQPlayer really sharpens Stylus transient attack and

complex melodic lines feel like they have gone from being drawn with edge smearing to sharp clean lines.

Has me wondering if HQPlayer should be considered a "gateway drug" eventually leading to an M scaler addiction.🤑

[davide256]

is there a process name for embedded HQPlayer that core isolation should be tried with as with gstp for Euphony? I searched the site and

couldn't find a process name for HQPlayer

[davide256]

5 hours ago, dminches said:

I noticed that the update disabled RAMROOT.  When I go to re-enable it I am getting a message that it is not be used with Stylus.  Is this new?  I have been using RAMROOT ever since I started using Euphony.

 

I get the same message with prior version when I try to switch from Stylus server to Stylus endpoint only, can run server in RAM but not endpoint only

[davide256]

17 hours ago, davide256 said:

I get the same message with prior version when I try to switch from Stylus server to Stylus endpoint only, can run server in RAM but not endpoint only

Ok, stated that incorrectly...I was trying to use the load app data to RAM option with Stylus endpoint and under the prior version it wouldn't let me do that,

seems to be working now with update. I'm guessing from the consistent "deny" message with Stylus server that bad things happen when app data is stored to RAM?

 

Fingers crossed that HQPlayer embedded works better now with Stylus server, I like it but buffering before play has been a PITA

[davide256]

 another update out today (10-08 date)

[davide256]

Anyone running Stylus endpoint on a Mac mini? If so, thoughts on which used Mac mini to use? (Euphony says OSX supported, newer models run Catalina?)

I'd like to give Stylus server + Stylus endpoint a shot but don't want the USB endpoint to be a NUC, wasnt that impressed with the difference using 2 NUCs vs

1 in the past.

[davide256]

It really does suck that Euphony updates change the hardware signature for HQPlayer embedded. Waiting now to get an updated license key, backing out of

the update didn't take me back to the prior signature. Wish the two would work together to correct this... a software update shouldn't change a hardware signature

(probable HQPlayer coding weakness) and reverting to prior Euphony version should restore prior state completely (probable Euphony backout defect). At this point

I'm going to start doing a backup OS disk image once I have the updated HQPlayer key since Euphony revert doesn't do a clean back out, that way I can minimize

HQPlayer use interruptions.

[davide256]

9 hours ago, Randomrunner said:

I had a similar experience 2 weeks ago. The end result was that I had Euphony installed initially while disabling Wifi/Bluetooth on my motherboard, and I bought HQPLaye embedded licence with this configuration.  

I then reset the BIOS to default, and forgot to turn off Wifi/Bluetooth.  With this minor differences, HQPlayer will treat them as different hardware with different IDs.  I reverted to turning off Wifi/Bluetooth, then everything was back normal again.  This may be one scenario for you to consider?  (By the way, Jussi and I exchanged several emails trying to resolve this, he was super patient and helpful, two thumbs up!)

nope,  no bios changes made since Jussi provided an updated key for replacement NUC. Was aware of the Wifi issue, had run into it with other software, so its

staying enabled.

[davide256]

8 hours ago, mancolh said:

How long did it take to get a replacement license? How did you contact him? I have the same issue after doing a software upgrade on my Antipodes server. 

About 2 days. Just use the [email protected] address to provide your original license info and the current HQPlayer hardware signature in the replacement request

[davide256]

6 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

Could the Hqp license be transferred to a new hardware? 

I don't know the constraints. In my case the original NUC died and I replaced with same model NUC.

[davide256]

Any suggestions on how to back up/restore Euphony optane boot drive? Waiting for an M.2 NVME drive to arrive that I want to swap in and clone

the image to. I do have a PC with an unused M.2 slot, could try cloning the Optane disk to an SSD then clone/expand it back when the NVME drive arrives.

Not sure if my cloning software will work with an M.2 slot though.

 

[davide256]

having some difficulties with Euphony & embedded HQPlayer, learned this today when I found fingerprint had changed between requesting and receiving new key

 

1. Had not been using wifi but while waiting for key, had  logged it in. When I removed SSID/PSSWD info
   in Euphony, get msg “wifi disabled”

2. No change to HQPlayer fingerprint until I disabled HQPlayer, at which point the desired prior fingerprint appeared
   and license key was accepted

So Euphony is disabling wifi if no SSID/psswd is present, which in turn causes change to HQPlayer fingerprint

[davide256]

3 hours ago, bobfa said:

Dave,

 

I have not done what you are talking about.  My process, during testing, was to run on USB and then install to the M.2 Optane using the Euphony Software itself after installing the m.2 drive.   I never bothered to back it up.  The setup is so simple that I never felt the need.

If the NVME drive works out, I’m going to want to reimage at some future point from 1TB to 2TB. It’s part of my process when setting up a machine with apps to complete the build and save an image for quick recovery

[davide256]

10 hours ago, bos3812 said:

Hi AudioDoctor, thanks for your answer. I am still analyzing where to find the cause. Yesterday evening I listened music very late and to my surprise I had not any error. Do you still have this problem or did you unsubscribe to Roon?

Try this.

1 Listen at off peak internet use hours for problem (2 AM to 6 AM)

2. listen at  peak Internet use hours for problem. (evenings 8PM - 1AM)

 

I'm suspecting you may find peak congestion times for Internet use are linked to the issue.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

Is it possible to get stylus and hqplayer using Qobuz as source to play gapless? Do I need to turn off buffering?

The Stylus buffer feature isn't used with Qobuz. Given that HQPlayer has inherent delay before start of play with even local content, does it even matter

if it supported gapless?

[davide256]

On 11/15/2020 at 8:27 AM, dminches said:

 

I believe the documentation confirms what I said.  Plus, one can see what's buffered based on the color of the song "i" icon,

 

Correct. By default Stylus buffers the first song and next for local play. If you look at your Qobuz playing list you will not see the track color

change to buffered and the manual states streaming services do not use Stylus buffer

 

local music with  1st two tracks buffered automatically

 

Qobuz playing, no buffering by Stylus

 

[davide256]

9 hours ago, k27R said:

The manual states that with online streaming, it buffers the track playing and two subsequent tracks on the current playlist. The colored “i” doesnt show this like it does for local though, but the manual states this is how online streaming works regardless of the settings.

 I  have the manual and thats not quite what it says. It discusses using the "buffer queue to RAM option" which is only available for local content,

not streaming services. In that section it states

 

"Euphony usually buffers the song that is currently playing and the next song to RAM."

and below it states (pg 45)

 

" Meaning of the info icon colors :
● Blue - song is buffered to RAM
● Light blue - song is cached to Euphony Drive (/data/Music path)
● Light gray - song is on its original location and not buffered"

 

No song ever changes to blue for Qobuz music so I had assumed no buffering took place.

 

However I do agree that Euphony is doing its stated default behavior for Qobuz also; when I disconnect the network cable,

current and next song will complete play before cease of playback.

 

The manual also talks about "buffer before play =100%" as not having any effect on streaming service behavior. I enabled the "buffer albums added to queue" option,

it also had no effect on Qobuz streaming, just current and next song were buffered for playback when I disconnected network cable.

 

 

[davide256]

7 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I did reboot my server, didn’t help. 

I see the same thing with local content using HQPlayer upsampling. It looks like all formats are converted to 32 bits prior to any upsampling. Perhaps

HQPlayer is returning the interim processing value to Stylus display instead of the beginning state?

[davide256]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:34 AM, AudioDoctor said:

 

Roon preloads the next song, even when using HQPlayer, the only delay is at the very beginning. It plays gapless.

 

Stylus downloads one song entirely, then plays it, then stops to download the next song, etc...

I’m going to suggest you do your own check as that does not agree with observed behavior when I disconnect the ethernet cable during play. Stylus will always play the next song. When I use Roon with HQPlayer it stops after current song if Ethernet is disconnected. I’m also wondering now if Roon is buffering current song to RAM or caching to disk. 

[davide256]

2 hours ago, flkin said:

...

 

Of course the real question is why on earth anyone would use Roon over Euphony being clearly inferior in sound quality? 😄

 

Actually I do, on a separate server not for playback but for it’s excellent music searching abilities and ability to sort both local and streamed files together by date added. Željko steadfastly refuses to prioritize this despite many prods from me. So it’s Roon for search only and Stylus for playback side by side, best of both!

I think the question of RAM buffer vs disk cache is important... my suspicion is that Roon playback uses disk cache and that is why Stylus sounds better, because it uses RAM buffer. Euphony will no longer let you run Stylus or Roon server entirely in RAM,  you get an error msg if you select "load app data" to RAM for RAM disk.

Would prefer that option was still allowed for Roon, when I was using it the only defect was  that any updates made after it was enabled weren't saved at shutdown,

you had to occasionally exit RAM disk mode so that Roon updates and major library changes were saved to permanent disk vs delaying startup for refresh.

 

Although given  results above, I'm now wondering if the HQPlayer directory needs to be loaded to RAM disk also..

[davide256]

4 minutes ago, dminches said:

If I replace my network card and thus change my hardware signature can I move my license on my own or do I have to request a new license key and have it sent to me?

 

For both Euphony and HQPlayer you have to request that a new license key be sent if a detectable change occurs. You may want to swap the card in, capture the new

signature(s) then put the old one back in for a few days until your request(s) with the new signature are completed. HQPlayer doesn't seem to detect a signature change

until you try to play music using HQPlayer