Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[Johnseye]

Jussi explained this is how HQPe handles playback of mono files.  Where Stylus will automatically play it back to both channels, HQPe needs it manually mapped to both.

 

This really threw me for a loop as I did not expect this behavior.  I rarely if ever play back mono files but need to keep this in mind when doing so.

[Johnseye]

There is always Audiolinux if you want a Linux version.  If you don't use Stylus this is a very good option which for $250 entitles you to unlimited upgrades and support.  I own both Euphony and Audiolinux.  I have been using Stylus with HQP for over a year because I found the SQ to be slightly better than Roon to HQP.  That may have changed recently so I'll need to revisit Audiolinux, or even Windows.

 

If you don't like Zeljko's pricing structure send him an email or don't buy v4.  I feel for those who bought v3 expecting to get an upgrade to v4 unknowing he would change to a sub model.  That's bait and switch but he may give your money back if you ask.

[Johnseye]

23 minutes ago, walloon said:

Got that email too. So if I accept the upgrade and don’t renew there is no way I can get back to v3. Not fair at all.
 

If I upgrade (big if at the moment) I will probably pay the full price and keep v3 on the current SSD. I hope they will never announce that they will scrap all v3 licences! Can they?

 

They can't renege on a pre-established agreement. They likely want to stop supporting v3 and this is a carrot for those owners. 

 

Not appealing if you want to test and compare, or roll back. 

[Johnseye]

For those planning on upgrading your physical server soon, the discounted upgrade from v3 to v4 is only good for your existing v3 hardware profile. You won't be able to transfer it. 

[Johnseye]

6 hours ago, Tokyokyoto said:

Where did you get this information from?

 

From Euphony. Here is the actual response as I am building a new server and wanted to be sure before I upgraded to v4, which I now may not. I am going to ask them about v4 teansferability now and will let you know. 

 

"If you have stylus 3 license, you can install promotional Stylus 4 only on this hardware where previously  Stylus 3 is registered." 

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, Helmut said:

So, you first let the guys (via ticket) transfer your Vers. 3 onto the new platform. Then you can update to Vers.4 on this PC.

That is how I did it.

 

9 minutes ago, Yiakubou said:

The v4 upgrade offer is linked to your v3 licence, which is linked to your HW fingerprint. If you want to use the upgrade offer on a different HW fingerprint, just create a ticket to have your v3 licence transferred to a new target HW fingerprint first, and then use your offer. What's disrespectful about this?

 

This wasn't shared with me by Euphony, but since you've done it I will ask for the same.  Thanks for the info!

 

[Johnseye]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:44 PM, di-fi said:

Please just let us know, so users still in doubt will understand all V3 users are eligible for V4 for the 12 month offer, regardless the hardware. However if you stay with V3 you have to keep it installed on the same hardware because there will be no more driver updates.
I am sure this will work as you intended, good luck.

 

I asked if I could transfer my v3 license to the new server before upgrading.  Here was what I was told...

 

"please send this request via support.

https://euphony-audio.com/hesk/

You need to open a support ticket about your problem!"

[Johnseye]

Has anyone dual booted Euphony and Windows from the same drive?  If so what was your process?  Windows first, create one or multiple partitions, then Euphony?  Euphony first, shrink it, partition, then Windows?

 

Thanks

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, flkin said:

Željko was in touch to say he’s figured out the cause of the recent instability - to do with Qobuz responding in ways not anticipated before and thus his code having issues. 
 

Hopefully this will be resolved in the next release and we’re back to Euphony working well again. 
 

 

 

I also sent Zeljko some logs of Qobuz failing. Here is his response. Specific to my constant issue. 

 

"the cause is an unexpected response while trying to get playback url for Qobuz song (while trying to set next song for playback). My code covers explicit error response from Qobuz and handling the received url. It seems that Qobuz also sometimes returns no error and no url!
I am correcting this situation now but the problem is still somewhere on Qobuz side. It is hard to tell if Qobuz servers have some problems occasionally or they do intentional throttling. I added the code to log the Qobuz response in full when such situation occur (no error and no url returned) so I will know more then."

 

I also have an issue where Euphony will not upsample properly over PCM 768 in any form; Stylus dirct, Stylus with HQPe, as NAA from HQPlayer Desktop on another PC and we know Roon amd HQPe is broken. Zeljko has a potential fix for some time in the future. 

 

As of now I can't use v4. Looking for a dual boot option so I can come back to it at some point. 

 

 

[Johnseye]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:48 AM, Johnseye said:

Has anyone dual booted Euphony and Windows from the same drive?  If so what was your process?  Windows first, create one or multiple partitions, then Euphony?  Euphony first, shrink it, partition, then Windows?

 

Thanks

 

On 8/19/2022 at 7:06 AM, Johnseye said:

 

I also sent Zeljko some logs of Qobuz failing. Here is his response. Specific to my constant issue. 

 

"the cause is an unexpected response while trying to get playback url for Qobuz song (while trying to set next song for playback). My code covers explicit error response from Qobuz and handling the received url. It seems that Qobuz also sometimes returns no error and no url!
I am correcting this situation now but the problem is still somewhere on Qobuz side. It is hard to tell if Qobuz servers have some problems occasionally or they do intentional throttling. I added the code to log the Qobuz response in full when such situation occur (no error and no url returned) so I will know more then."

 

I also have an issue where Euphony will not upsample properly over PCM 768 in any form; Stylus dirct, Stylus with HQPe, as NAA from HQPlayer Desktop on another PC and we know Roon amd HQPe is broken. Zeljko has a potential fix for some time in the future. 

 

As of now I can't use v4. Looking for a dual boot option so I can come back to it at some point. 

 

 

 

 

Well dual booting with Euphony is next to impossible.  The Euphony installer takes the entire drive by default and there's no way to change this.  That means Euphony needs to be installed first.  I did this, then used Ubuntu on a USB drive to shrink the music data partition giving me enough free space for Windows.  I then installed Windows but because of UEFI it won't add Linux to its bootloader.  I tried using EasyBCD which can't modify the bootloader or install its own because of UEFI.  GRUB could work as a bootloader for both, except since Euphony is installed first I can't figure out how to use GRUB after Windows is installed.

 

If anyone has experience with dual booting or successfully creating a bootloader in a UEFI environment please let me know.

[Johnseye]

On 8/26/2022 at 12:35 PM, sakso136 said:

Guys, i m waiting for a stable euphony v4 to  make the jump, is it the time now?

 

On 8/26/2022 at 1:25 PM, ASRMichael said:

I use Stylus with HQP works perfectly for me! 👍

 

7 hours ago, TimF said:

Issues with mine… you may want to wait 

 

Stylus with HQPe works fine. Roon with HQPlayer does not. Roon's error says HQPlayer may need an update. I submitted a ticket to Zeljko. 

 

Upsampling works fine for me with both HQPlayer and Stylus. Stylus upsampling on its own is actually pretty good. 

[Johnseye]

4 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

 

Stylus with HQPe works fine. Roon with HQPlayer does not. Roon's error says HQPlayer may need an update. I submitted a ticket to Zeljko. 

 

Upsampling works fine for me with both HQPlayer and Stylus. Stylus upsampling on its own is actually pretty good. 

 

So Zeljko pointed out something I missed and really like about v4. In the Settings of Music Service you can select HQPlayer version selection/update. From there you can select the past 5 versions of HQPe. Similar to selecting different kernel versions this is a huge benefit and hopefully means Zeljko will be releasing the latest version of HQPe when it is perpetually updated. 

 

Roon works with HQPe if you have the right version selected. 

[Johnseye]

7 minutes ago, c-w said:

There is an image update available now on the BETA channel.

 

Is it possible to roll back to the stable version after installing the beta?

[Johnseye]

Anyone using the new beta in Stylus with HQPe mode will need to update to the latest kernel.  If you had already been using the new kernel you'll need to update it again after installing the beta.  Stylus and HQPe will not work with the previous kernel.  Also remember to update to the latest version of HQPe after upgrading to the beta.  Everything works well with latest kernel and beta.  I still need to test Roon with HQPe but expect that to work fine as well.

 

I've been playing some tracks modified by PGGB using Stylus and HQPe.  Stylus doesn't always recognize the metadata from these tracks the way it should.  Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I'm currently comparing a PGGB modified track to it HQPe upsampled.  The difference is very subtle. I want to say there's a bit more depth (front to back) to the PGGB version.  Sometimes I think I hear the difference but am not 100% certain.  Very subtle.

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, di-fi said:

Hi, I suppose you need passive cooling? In my experience a (server) board with Xeon processor gives better results for audio than the Celeron J1900 (both passive cooling+ JCAT Femto Ethernet). But I do also believe bos2812 has better results with the lower powered unit. 

 

I had tried using passive cooling with a single i9 but it got too hot.  I'm now successfully using passive cooling with 2 Xeons but the case is different.  The Taiko DIY case heatsink is massive and does a great job at pulling heat away from the procs.  My temps when upsampling PCM are typically steady around 50 Celsius. 

[Johnseye]

57 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

Are the HQPe and the PGGB The same sample rate?

 

Yes. Apples to apples.  I have the Holo May DAC so push to either PCM 1.4M or 1.5M depending on the original frequency

 

57 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

what settings are you using?  Are you using the EC modulators or is that just for DSD?  (I have not used HQPe for a long time)

 

Most of my music is PCM but I do have some DSD.  As of now I prefer the sinc-L filters and LNS15 dither.

 

57 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

 

I wonder if the CPU isolation is working better with the new release?

 

just as a sidenote, I noticed when I was doing CPU isolation V3, that some processes had an affinity for a specific CPU and would not move. I would just leave that process on its preferred CPU and move everything else. In the end this gave me the most relaxed sound.

 

I look forward to hearing how people use Euphony 4 with the two xenon processors.

I wonder if you even need to use stylus EP? 

 

Would you mind sharing your proc isolation settings? I haven't played around with this yet and am curious.

[Johnseye]

26 minutes ago, TimF said:

Annoyingly moving from a network card direct to the etherregen has taken out my network connection. I think I now have to reinstall Euphony again. Just a heads up for anyone changing network config with V4. 

 

You shouldn't have to re-install.  Let Zeljko know of the change

[Johnseye]

24 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

That doesn’t make sense because the regen is just seen as a switch, unrelated to anything inside the computer. Euphony shouldn’t even know you’re using a regen. 

 

You're right Chris as long as he's using the same NIC on the PC.  Euphony creates a signature based on the NIC as one of the components.  

[Johnseye]

14 hours ago, davide256 said:

Etherregen does have an SFP port… wonder if going to that was the change made

 

The switch shouldn't matter. Euphony builds the signature off of the motherboard.

[Johnseye]

Has anyone been able to get Euphony to work with any USB PCI card? I've tried with the JCAT USB XE and the SOtM tx-USBexp with no luck. 

[Johnseye]

 

 

11 hours ago, Dev said:

 

yes, I am using JCAT XE and it seem to work fine with v4. What issues are you getting ?

 

Euphony is throwing an error.  I don't have the error message in front of me now but will share later.  I tried using the SOtM card yesterday but the JCAT was a while ago. I'm wondering if I last tried it with v3 and will try it tonight on v4.  JCAT with Windows worked fine.

 

1 hour ago, Toymanmark said:

Johnseye,

 

Not sure if this helps!

 

I just added two new Jcat cards, the USB XE and Ethernet XE last week. I was having the same issue with Euphony V4/USB card not working. The same path from ASUS WS C621e motherboard USB output works fine! MB  USB>Lush2USB>UpTone USB regen>Lush2USB>DAC. When I used this same USB path through the Jcat USB XE card it did not work!

 

I used a cheap $5.00 USB cable directly from Jcat USB XE out directly to DAC and after reboot of Euphony ap, the cheap cable works. No matter what I tried I could not get the Lush USB path to work.

 

I am in process now of purchasing the Sablon EVO USB because of this. 

 

I too am using a Lush to a tX-USB ultra, then a Muan to DAC.  I've also tried the Muan and a Sablon direct to DAC. I'm using the Sablon in my office from PC to Hugo and it works fine.  The Muan works fine from the motherboard USB to DAC.  The Lush from motherboard USB to tX-USBultra then Muan to DAC work fine.  It's the PCI cards that are causing the issue with Euphony. When I used the JCAT with Windows it worked fine.

 

25 minutes ago, bos3812 said:

Hi Johnseye,

 

I also use the JCat XE usb-card. Never had any problem. Not in V4 and also not in V3. I use the Tellurium Q Silver Diamond waveform HF usb cable. Before this I had other usb cables. Does your cards get external or internal power?

 

External power

 

[Johnseye]

On 12/4/2022 at 11:41 PM, Dev said:

 

yes, I am using JCAT XE and it seem to work fine with v4. What issues are you getting ?

 

On 12/5/2022 at 12:56 AM, flkin said:

 

I had similar issues which was resolved by Zeljko. He found it was related to gapless playback and so in the latest beta 20221028 a new option to disable gapless playback (music service/audio outputs) appeared to solve this. Unfortunately it wasn't explained clearly what it solved!

 

I'm still finding that when gapless playback is ON, all kinds of playback, fast forwarding and next track issues occur - jumping tracks, skipping tracks.. so I think it's best to leave it OFF unless necessary.

 

On 12/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, Toymanmark said:

Johnseye,

 

Not sure if this helps!

 

I just added two new Jcat cards, the USB XE and Ethernet XE last week. I was having the same issue with Euphony V4/USB card not working. The same path from ASUS WS C621e motherboard USB output works fine! MB  USB>Lush2USB>UpTone USB regen>Lush2USB>DAC. When I used this same USB path through the Jcat USB XE card it did not work!

 

I used a cheap $5.00 USB cable directly from Jcat USB XE out directly to DAC and after reboot of Euphony ap, the cheap cable works. No matter what I tried I could not get the Lush USB path to work.

 

I am in process now of purchasing the Sablon EVO USB because of this. 

 

Hi all, I tried again with the JCAT USB XE card last night.  When I did this, I recalled where I left things off in my troubleshooting.  This card does get recognized by Euphony and it will play back audio up to PCM 768.  When I upsample beyond that to PCM 1.5M the sound is distorted.  I don't know if it's a Euphony, ALSA or JCAT issue.  When I use an endpoint running HQPlayer NAA, I upsample to 1.5M without issue.

 

Back in Oct '21 I asked Zeljko if Euphony would support PCM 1.5M and got this response, obviously v4 is out:

"No, but I know what needs to be patched. 

Unfortunately, we will probably not include it in any current major version update but it will be included in the next major version kernel - v4.
We are working hard on v4 but I still don't have a reliable ETA..."

 

I worked with Piero at Audiolinux on the same issue back then and he helped me until we hit a wall.  I explained to both Zeljko and Piero that HQPlayer stand alone can upsample to 1536.  Jussi wasn't interested in collaborating with them on it but thought these guys capable enough and since he was able to do it, they should be able as well. 

 

As I built a new server a few months ago I revisited the USB cards on this server with both JCAT and SOtM.  I'm still at the same place with PCM 1536 as I was last year. Although SOtM is worse off as Euphony doesn't shake hands with it properly.

 

I use a Holo May DAC and to my ears upsampling to 1536 using an NAA sound better than USB direct to DAC at 768.

[Johnseye]

5 hours ago, steveoat said:

Unfortunately, no update to HQ Player Embedded.  Still using version 4.30.3 which is almost a year out of date.  Hopefully they will update in the near future.

 

I created a ticket about this and suggest every Euphony subscriber using HQPe do the same. The more people Zjelko and Robert know are impacted the better. 

 

Here is Robert's responses. I told him I wasn't going to build a 3rd PC (I also use an NAA endpoint). I asked him for specifics on the issues and he declined to answer that. 

 

Robert:

"we do what we can with HQPe. Recently it is a problem to maintan this software on our system, and we are discussing this with Jussi.
I advice you to try to install HQPe on standalone computer, and then use your Stylus computer to control it. In this way you get best of HQplayer and of Stylus."

 

" Yes running on separate computers gives you most flexibility to use HQPe with Stylus.
As said we are discussing problem with Jussi to see what we can do better in future.
This is all I can say now, and advice to run HQPe on third machine is best option for all who want to be in sync with Jussi changes."

[Johnseye]

@Miskacan you shed some light on what complications Euphony is having with HQPe?

 

Thanks 

[Johnseye]

54 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I don't really know much about Euphony, so I cannot comment on that respect.

 

 

Ok, I only ask because one of the 2 people running it said: "Recently it is a problem to maintain this software on our system, and we are discussing this with Jussi."