Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, di-fi said:

I just did a reboot, buffer is working now. I think I entered '6 GB' instead of '6' or '6GB'.

 

https://euphony-audio.com/hesk/knowledgebase.php?article=23

 

(...) In the field you enter only a number for desired amount of GB.

As long as you do not try to reserve all RAM for this and you don't mistakenly enter more than you have, this feature is fairly safe to use.

Use only with Stylus! Roon and other audio systems (even StylusEP) will not benefit from this. (...)

 

[di-fi]

4 hours ago, c-w said:

I think that from the Endpoint side of things - files served from server are no different from online songs served from internet (with much better speeds with former).

They might well be the same files but almost no-one can compare them due to lack of information from the streaming services. But when compared with the ears they do sound different. Most users prefer local files. Also users confirm a SQ preference for example for Qobuz vs. Tidal or other services.

I doubt Euphony (EP) is the only OS being immune to this if that is what you are saying. But the gap is getting smaller, everywhere.

 

I marked this OT because local vs. streaming is an other discussion. 

[davide256]

6 hours ago, di-fi said:

Different experiences can only add to the discussion. How optimised and isolated an Endpoint can be? In theory a dual (fast and slow) processor doing different tasks in optimised units should have an advantage. Maybe a single server can sound better due to the limited buffer capacity used for the Endpoint in a dual set up?  Whole album buffering vs. track buffering and traffic going on during album playing in dual setup.

It seems Euphony did not exploit buffer management on the Endpoint side so hard to tell until it becomes available. 

buffer variable on endpoint settings behaves the sames as at the server. Defaults to 50% of allowable RAM unless you enter a value to override. The difference

is that on server side one may queue tracks up to the limit of allowed buffer, on endpoint side server controls buffer fill which at most is current track + start of next track.

It does appear that 8GB is the sweet spot for a Stylus endpoint to accommodate up to 4GB in track file size. Playing  PGGB files with my gaming PC as Stylus endpoint

(normal/ not RAM mode) and a 3GB 768/32 file utilized 14% of 32GB RAM, or about 4.5 GB.

 

I do note that with 16GB RAM on server and RAM mode I occasionally get incomplete buffering because of buffer size exceeded, most commonly

if I try to queue/buffer 2 DSD albums

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

buffer variable on endpoint settings behaves the sames as at the server. Defaults to 50% of allowable RAM unless you enter a value to override. The difference

is that on server side one may queue tracks up to the limit of allowed buffer, on endpoint side server controls buffer fill which at most is current track + start of next track.

It does appear that 8GB is the sweet spot for a Stylus endpoint to accommodate up to 4GB in track file size. Playing  PGGB files with my gaming PC as Stylus endpoint

(normal/ not RAM mode) and a 3GB 768/32 file utilized 14% of 32GB RAM, or about 4.5 GB.

 

I do note that with 16GB RAM on server and RAM mode I occasionally get incomplete buffering because of buffer size exceeded, most commonly

if I try to queue/buffer 2 DSD albums

So it seems always limited to two (2) tracks on the endpoint for streaming and local files. And on the server a full album can be buffered only from local files.

 

Well....

 

I had a nice surprise this afternoon. I can buffer a whole album on my Euphony Stylus server/player while streaming from Qobuz. Not two (2) tracks, all tracks are buffered when I press on 'Buffer album'.

 

Hopefully what you see is what you get...is what you hear!!!

 

It takes almost a minute, hence my thinking the tracks are downloaded and not only the information when to go download the next track. Still, is playback progress being reported from player to Qobuz server and then from Qobuz server to user device? Or do we have 'Play and relax' with streaming? I have to go but next week I will pull the ethernet cable after Buffering a full album from Qobuz and I have my answer.

 

I just added Qobuz and like it very much, we have it in Canada since more than a week now.

 

 

 

[c-w]

Yes, you can now fully buffer Qobuz and Tidal. And use it for Play & Relax.

[di-fi]

29 minutes ago, c-w said:

Yes, you can now fully buffer Qobuz and Tidal. And use it for Play & Relax.

Thanks! Why bother with Endpoints? 😀 As you figured already, at least in my setup larger buffer is an advantage. 

 

On Qobuz I just tried 'Buffer album' Ray by Carmen Gomez (H) that should be quite large and indeed RAM fills up to 10% of 8GB (no ramroot). So far so good. 

 

Have a great weekend!

[Tatang]

3 hours ago, di-fi said:

Thanks! Why bother with Endpoints? 😀 As you figured already, at least in my setup larger buffer is an advantage. 

 

On Qobuz I just tried 'Buffer album' Ray by Carmen Gomez (H) that should be quite large and indeed RAM fills up to 10% of 8GB (no ramroot). So far so good. 

 

Have a great weekend!

So in euphony v4, the setup is optimized for 1 machine operation. Adding EP probably will only increase SQ in small margin or probably can decrease SQ because of intens network traffic between server and EP??

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, Tatang said:

So in euphony v4, the setup is optimized for 1 machine operation. Adding EP probably will only increase SQ in small margin or probably can decrease SQ because of intens network traffic between server and EP??

I think so too. It could be a (very) close finish. So why going through all the trouble?

I have an extra low power PC and an extra V3 licence so I could try it out. It can sound very good but it does not beat my other endpoints hands down. 

As discussed the endpoint can be optimized both with hardware and with a few CPU settings. I would put my money instead in Stylus server upgrades. 

[Yiakubou]

5 hours ago, Tatang said:

So in euphony v4, the setup is optimized for 1 machine operation. Adding EP probably will only increase SQ in small margin or probably can decrease SQ because of intens network traffic between server and EP??

 

There is no intense traffic between server and EP, unless you have your music stored on the server side and even then, I wouldn't call it intense traffic unless you're playing some sort of tracks with extreme file size. It's always the EP that buffers tracks from the source (be it on the server side, NAS, internet, whatever...). All high-end streaming solutions are trying to separate the server and endpoint related tasks, among other things, to spread the load in order to achieve as low as possible latency, EMI/RFI, etc. Either by having an overkill configuration and various tweaks like Taiko servers for example, or by separating server and endpoint into 2 PC's completely, or kind of both like dual Pink Faun server (which is running on custom Euphony build btw).

 

Don't hate me for it and I mean this as no offense to anyone, but I've never heard any difference between various ethernet cables, network switches, RAM or SSD modules, etc... I have a simple dual PC setup using NUC's, so nothing fancy. But what makes a noticeable difference for me is good quality power supply feeding the NUC's and dual vs. single PC configuration (where dual is slightly better, nothing groundbreaking though).

[davide256]

13 hours ago, Tatang said:

So in euphony v4, the setup is optimized for 1 machine operation. Adding EP probably will only increase SQ in small margin or probably can decrease SQ because of intens network traffic between server and EP??

Endpoints are useful for distributed playback: 1 server, many rooms you could be in. Stylus is not an ideal solution for this because it does require more resources in an endpoint

than other solutions like Roon or HQPlayer.  The combination of Stylus server + HQPe ==> NAA is very effective.

[di-fi]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:18 AM, Yiakubou said:

where dual is slightly better, nothing groundbreaking though

So as discussed above there seems no reason to pursue Euphony Endpoint whatever your system is. And better invest in a better LPS for example, or other upgrades audible in your system setup (in my experience; better LPS, - switch, cascaded switches, - RAM, Ethernet cable (either better or UTP vs. STP), anti vibration, isolation and grounding and last but not least cleaner power lines).

[Yiakubou]

There is a reason for me. As mentioned I don't hear difference between various switches, RAM's, ethernet cables and all that you mentioned except LPS and power related stuff. Slightly better is still better than nothing...

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, Yiakubou said:

There is a reason for me. As mentioned I don't hear difference between various switches, RAM's, ethernet cables and all that you mentioned except LPS and power related stuff. Slightly better is still better than nothing...

Sorry, my interpretation of slightly better was as in not significant. So why bother purchasing a standard (no RAM or card upgrades) NUC + LPS and having 2 more boxes and cables? I am not judging, I can not, I totally respect your choice.

[c-w]

HQPlayer embedded version 5.0.0 is available now.

[MM]

Upgraded to 5.0 via Euphony last night.  Big improvement in CPU load.  

[sakso136]

Guys,

i want your opinion on choosing the right portable projector.

i m keen purchasing a portable projector for my listening room, my intent is to stream you tube concerts while connecting the sound output of the projector to my stereo system.

My dac have only coax input.

i m using singxer su6 wich have usb input , so from my euphony server i go usb out to su6 then coax out to dac.

The models i have in mind are the nebula , link below.

they are portable, good image , ( they have speakers built in wich can be a good think if i use it outside for example).

some models have chromecast built in.

my question is how to connect these models to my system?

they seem having only 3,5 mm sound output or hdmi e-arc?!?!

i was thinking about may be send music via airplay to euphony direct? Is this even possible?

Any help is much appreciated..

if you are aware of another model please share!

the hole idea is to watch concerts live on you tube and listen in my hifi system.

thks

[sakso136]

Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089GPRV4C/ref=as_li_ss_tl?SubscriptionId=AKIAJO7E5OLQ67NVPFZA&ascsubtag=820251084-2-171406610.1683881182&tag=shopperz_origin6-20

[Yiakubou]

@sakso136 I think you need to ask your questions somewhere else. This thread is not about portable projectors.

[davide256]

7 hours ago, MM said:

Upgraded to 5.0 via Euphony last night.  Big improvement in CPU load.  

But will require buying a new license for 5.0 upgrade.

[louawalters]

39 minutes ago, davide256 said:

But will require buying a new license for 5.0 upgrade.

Yes.  You can get a discount code (for upgrading = 15% off).   I upgraded too and noticed a big improvement in CPU usage.  Didn't get a chance to listen, just played some tracks with the system off and observing the CPU load on the i9 server.

[davide256]

Does anyone know why external HQPlayer shows twice?   HQPe + UPnP typically has issues with hanging on delayed resume, wondering

if HQPe has a second/better control protocol since I don't see the hang issue using the non UPnP instance of HQPe in Stylus

example below

 

[c-w]

On 5/12/2023 at 6:05 PM, davide256 said:

Does anyone know why external HQPlayer shows twice?

 

Is your hqp also an upnp output?

[davide256]

2 hours ago, c-w said:

 

Is your hqp also an upnp output?

Native HQPe OS image will always show up as UPnP device which can be handily controlled using UPnP controllers or with Bubble UPnP to proxy for Open Home

controllers. I've seen this second HQPe  instance (non UPnP) with Stylus booting different machines as HQPe server

[c-w]

2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Native HQPe OS image will always show up as UPnP device which can be handily controlled using UPnP controllers or with Bubble UPnP to proxy for Open Home

controllers. I've seen this second HQPe  instance (non UPnP) with Stylus booting different machines as HQPe server

 

So I guess Euphony finds it twice: first over direct hqp protocol and then also over upnp protocol.

[davide256]

4 hours ago, c-w said:

 

So I guess Euphony finds it twice: first over direct hqp protocol and then also over upnp protocol.

Must be it. Roon avoids UPnP but can control an external HQP server if you provide IP address.