New OSX Opensource audiophile player : Audirvana

[damien78]

You can now use your best measurement device, your ears to evaluate the compilers impact on sound quality.

 

I've uploaded to the (just started) Audirvana website three builds for you to evaluate.

 

http://www.audirvana.com/Site_2/Compiler_test.html

 

They are numbered A, B, C.

There is a googleDoc form to submit your answers (ranking from best to worst, and comments relative to the sound quality).

If you don't find a difference between two builds, please state it.

 

Note that there is no trick, all builds are different.

 

Damien

 

[Jeff In San Diego]

Hi Damien,

@wgscott mentioned the other day that compiler optimization settings could be key here as well. In the past I have seen significant failures of otherwise healthy software when various compiler optimization settings were turned on.

 

It would stretch the imagination of us flat-earthers much less if we were to discover that some specific optimization in the llvm were resulting in broken object code that renders imperfect output data to the DAC.

 

If you're up for it, I would love to see a similar "cook off" to this one, done completely with the new compiler, but with no, medium, and extreme compiler optimization settings for the three versions.

 

BTW, I poked around in xcode 4.x for half an hour and could not even find where one would set the compiler, let alone optimization settings. Anybody know where to find that stuff?

 

thanks much,

jp

 

[wgscott]

See attachment linked below:

 

[Jeff In San Diego]

That darn top item in the left hand column looks so much like a header instead of an item that I always forget there is "stuff" under there. Only the folders below it look like they would be useful to click on and reveal stuff to work on.

 

All manner of grand and dangerous stuff to mess with in there!

 

[wgscott]

I use xcodebuild install -target Audirvana to compile it.

 

[avuroski]

will there be any support for VST plug-ins in the future? If you could do that without compromising SQ, it would be fantastic for many of us.

 

[Jud]

Thanks!

 

Please hold this open for a little while - I won't be able to get to it until Tuesday night or Wednesday at the earliest, and I'd hate to miss the fun. :-)

 

[57gold]

Having issues w/Audirvana (pops/clicks) and need someone smarter than me to figure out why.

 

Would be happy to sponsor a good meal, bottle of wine...whatever!

 

In meantime, would appreciate direction to optimal set up of Audio/Midi, Preferences...the Apple stuff that needs to be set up for optimal operation of Audirvana.

 

Not having issues with Pure Music or Decibel...but was digging Audirvana before 0.8 upgrade, more direct sounding with great swing and dynamics.

 

Have dedicated late 2010 Mini with 8 GB RAM, 120 GB OWC SSD into WaveLink feeding a Wadia 861i. Mini is headless with iPad sreen sharing to control all.

 

[bjast]

What is the maximum playlist size of Audirvana? I have quite a large playlist that I use to randomly play files, but lately Audirvana has been quitting during, or right after the playlist file has loaded.

 

[wgscott]

Our airplane from Miami refueled in Tampa before the 5 hour flight home, but I doubt I would have had time then anyway...

 

Nevertheless, start by deleting the file

 

~/Library/Preferences/fr.dplisson.Audirvana.plist under your home directory.

 

Now, re-open Audirvana, and in the application's preferences, uncheck "exclusive access mode" and "integer mode" and make sure no more than 1/2 your total memory can be allocated, using the slide-bar.

 

Then play a test-file and see if there is any improvement.

 

[Terry]

I have had a similar problem but it with any playlist. It plays the first file and quits. It did not used to do this but it now doing this every time. I wonder if anyone would know the cause and Damien help ! I really liked the sound since I made some system changes (mostly going straight in the bnc with audiophilleo) and not using my bnc cable. I love to do the blind test but right now just want it to work like it did before. I have even deleted the playlist and made a new one and it still happens. I had the problem long ago with huge playlists (hundreds of songs) that it would quit and I understood that( I had to try ). The playlist now is nine songs.

 

 

[57gold]

Miami is less than an hour from here...where is home?

 

Hope you enjoyed South Florida...took wife for long weekend to Palm Beach, it's a different country than here...Miami is a seperate continent, that I love to visit!

 

Not sure what to do to "delete file from home directory".

 

[wgscott]

Home is California. We flew from Quito to Maimi, and then hung around the airport in Maimi for 6 hours, but it was right after the fuel depot had exploaded, so they only had enough aviation fuel to get to Tampa. Then we flew for another 5 hours or more to SFO. My previous trip in Maimi was as a little kid at the Republican convention (Nixon coronation). My sister got tear-gased. It was great.

 

In your home directory, you have a Library folder, and in that, a Preferences folder, and the file you want to delete is named fr.dplisson.Audirvana.plist.

 

 

 

[57gold]

Deleted file, unclicked HOG and Integer, slider to @4 GB, set max to 96, 2 or 4X upsample with CoreAudio...pop and click.

 

Then, no upsampling...even more clicks and pops?

 

Made one more attempt...deleted file, all same as first, except slid upsample speed (fastest to best) to one slot less than best...and after a burp (cut in and out of sound)...no clicks/pops. Sounds great.

 

All started with add of feature that I was looking for, limit of upsample to deal with 24/96 capability of Wadia.

 

Thanks wgscott...dinner at Bern's in Tampa when you get here. Though, you live in San Francisco area and may not partake in dry aged beef, none better anywhere (though the Seminole Hard Rock's Council Oak is also very good at dry aged beef), so there are other choices!

 

Why no HOG mode...use it on Decibel and PM?

 

 

 

 

 

[4est]

Along with wgscotts suggestions, try un checking "max memory" and back the memory slider down just a touch. When I had clicks, that is what worked for me.

 

[wgscott]

I was just suggesting turning as much stuff off as I could think of off the top of my head, and then I guess I got distracted but should have said start adding them back in to figure out what the culprit is.

 

When I set sampling to the max, I get a kernel panic (whole computer freezes). So I can't really claim any insight or credit. But in general, if some program starts misbehaving, I tend to suspect a corrupted preferences file.

 

[Jud]

I was at Bern's once, in 1980 - still remember it.

 

No cheapskate is 57gold - anything else you need help with? ;-)

 

[damien78]

@bjast & Terry:

When you say Audirvana quits, do you mean crashes ?

If yes, can you send me (by PM) the crash logs ?

 

@57gold: when using upsample, only very recent Corei7 systems can cope with the best setting, especially for libSampleRate, that's why you get shuttering when playing as the loading/upsampling process is lagging behind playback.

Normally you don't have to bother with AudioMidi settings as Audirvana overrides them.

 

@Jud: I intend to let the blind test run for the whole week, so take your time for the test

 

@avuroski: it's in longer term plans for another version

 

Damien

 

[Wavelength]

Damien,

 

I am a little confused by this statement and other cpu overloading issues:

 

@57gold: when using upsample, only very recent Corei7 systems can cope with the best setting, especially for libSampleRate, that's why you get shuttering when playing as the loading/upsampling process is lagging behind playback.

Normally you don't have to bother with AudioMidi settings as Audirvana overrides them.

 

If you are coding in a minimal fashion to avoid CoreAudio and go directly to the middlewear drivers for the device as HOG mode, Integer does. Then why all the CPU time? It seems like you are exceeding even that required for iTunes which makes no sense at all to me.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[57gold]

Thanks for learning me about preference files.

 

Had one for AyreWave so I DKed that as well.

 

Something was going on when I attempted to bird dog the problem over the weekend by switching features on and off, without erasing preference file, I actually froze my Wadia...it went tilt and unresponsive...twice. Had to shut it off to reset. Think I had audio/midi limited to 88.2 and set Audirvana to max at 96...this stuff is complicated!!!

 

Just listened to Arc Angels file, Austin rockers like Doyle B , and Audirvana is the stuff for rock and roll! PM seems to "Mark Levinson" (the company, not the guy) the sound...too polite, not like real music. Add Dave Holland jazz, some Doobies and some Christian Mc Bride...best bass clarity and swing I have ever heard on my system which has Aerial 10Ts driven by McCormack DNA-500...a bass capable paring to be sure!

 

Dinner if you are ever in Tampa!

 

[57gold]

Files sent to RAM. Shouldn't playback be delayed until file (first track) is upsampled and loaded for play?

 

Or, does SRC program activity upsampling subsequent files overtax processor so that file playback is messed with and therefore the pops and clicks?

 

Thanks Damien...with proper setup, sounds fantastic entertaining...music churns, drums crack and bass lines are strong, deep and clear.

 

 

 

 

 

[damien78]

Gordon, 57gold,

 

Upsampling is done during the loading phase, storing the result in a large buffer. And this is this buffer in final(float or integer) HAL format that is read by the playback realtime routine.

And this playback routine is minimal to reduce as much as possible synchronous CPU load.

 

But SRC algorithms (Apple CoreAudio, and more for libSampleRate), though being of high quality, are not very CPU-efficient and thus require lot of CPU power.

To avoid playback start delay, the loading process is launched in the background. Normally it completes in a few seconds.

The real issue arrives when this SRC process slows down the loading process to the point it starves the playback routine. And thus it makes hick-ups to the audio stream, as it waits for data to arrive.

You can make a test by pausing playback at the beginning of the first track, wait for loading process to advance well, and resume it. Like with youtube videos on a slow connection.

 

With libSampleRate set to best, it most often makes real pauses as this is the most CPU hungry setting.

With CoreAudio SRC set to best, it can be in a gray zone where the loading process is just little behind the loading process, and thus make very short pauses that appear like pops/cracks.

 

So right now, the advice is to use upsampling with SRC set to one position before best.

 

Anyway, the real solution is to get a much more efficient SRC algorithm. I'm working on it...

 

Damien

 

[57gold]

Would have thought that a multi core processor could do two things at once, without interfering with each other.

 

But I guess there is a bunch of math going on with a SRC. Even at two positions from best, libSampleRate causes pops and crackles. Guess I should have sprung for the 2.66 Ghz processor in my Mini insted of the 2.4.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

 

 

[Wavelength]

Damien,

 

Her are a couple of suggestions, just looking at top and fooling around with sample rate changes and stuff.

 

I think ditch the VM buffer. If the memory is available take the real stuff.

 

Ok on Fs change your buffers are either going to go up or down. Presently when they go down the processing does as well. No big deal there but when they go up like 44.1->192 your application pretty much falls apart. Maybe a built in buffer in time depending on the % of time resident in the buffer should be applied to all Fs changes.

 

On my computer I see typically in top of 0.4-1.0 % CPU. But if I change from 44.1-192 I see peak and the first few seconds of 75% down to 35%.

 

Why? well it seems that the most pops/clicks or really underruns on the dac side occur at the beginning when you are trying to establish your memory buffer for the new Fs rate. If you held off transmission to the dac until you had say a 25-50% buffer of the next song then maybe this issue would go away.

 

Remember the background task of outputting the data should be what gets the time. Nothing in the foreground should effect that.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[57gold]

Initial observation, the CoreAudio sounds more alive, more energy, more space around the instruments than the libSampleRate.

 

Based upon limited reference points, libSampleRate 2X to 88.2 pushes Audirvana's musical presentation torwards Pure Music's polite/controlled one, if that makes sense. Another way I'm hearing it is that CoreAudio is "tubes" versus libSampleRate is "solid state", maybe more acurate but less musical.

 

OK, that's just a man on the street's view...way above my pay grade to volunteer info on memory management...