Sonore opticalRendu

[vortecjr]

11 hours ago, Adyc said:

 

Sounds good. I hate spaghetti mess.

Careful you don’t start a food war:)

[vortecjr]

10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The SFP cage side of the SFP module is standardized, same physical, same electrical and same protocol. The part where you plug in the fiber can be different.

 

There are two common wavelengths, usually referenced as SX and LX. There are two different types of fiber: single mode and multi mode.

 

So any optical SFP module will work with any SFP cage designed for optical use (which is pretty much all of them). You DO have to match the fiber side. Use an SX to SX, LX to LX, single mode to single mode and multimode to multi mode. If you have an SFP cage on both sides, its easy just use the same model SFP module on both sides and use a cable that matches. If one side is an FMC with a built in optical interface (ie NO SFP cage), you need to find out what it is and get an SFP module that matches.

 

As to which of these combinations sound better, who knows. But be careful, LX is designed for much longer range, but that doesn't mean it is going to sound better between two boxes in the same rack. There are some people that think LX is actually bad for very short lenghts, the electronics are designed assuming a lot of attenuation due to the long fiber length, with a short cable that does not exist and are probably putting the receivers in a state they were not designed for. It may or may not make any difference, I have not spent any time comparing different combinations, other than do they WORK.

 

John S.

Thanks John...more posts for Alex’s collection of great posts:)

[vortecjr]

4 hours ago, octaviars said:

On FS.com there are a section regarding the need to atteunate a signal from a LX SFP if the distance is short.

 

"Generally, multimode systems do not need attenuators as the multimode sources, VCSELs, rarely have enough power output to saturate receivers. Instead, single-mode systems, especially short links, often have too much power and need attenuators."

 

https://community.fs.com/blog/guideline-for-fixed-fiber-optic-attenuator.html

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this...very helpful.

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, Summit said:

Is it possible to get my ultraRenu modified to an opticalRendu for a reasonable cost, if I wanted it?

We are considering it. However, be tween shipping, labor, cost of parts, and not much in common between them it’s going to be hard. 

 

Consider adding an opticalModule to the ultraRendu’s network.

[vortecjr]

LX modules are off the table then:)

[vortecjr]

21 minutes ago, Summit said:

 

I see. I’m not really considering getting two more boxes and PSUs for them just to get fibre, I already have too many boxes.

In my case it doesn't add any new boxes. I need a switch in my living room and my switch has one open SFP port. 

[vortecjr]

2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Same for me.

I am not interested at all to go the "fiber" path.

I hope that the Ultrarendu will get some upgrade next year.

 

Matt

No one should fee like that have to do anything. The ultraRendu is great on it's own and this is just another option.  

[vortecjr]

Don't let the matching case full you...these two things are very different inside. Besides if one is not into fiber optic then the micro/ultraRendu are perfect solutions as-is.    

[vortecjr]

3 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Maybe the opticalRendu outperforms the ultrarendu. 

But a new designed ultraRendu would outperform the existing ultraRendu as well.

This is my point, some people want the best, but they do not want fiber.

 

Matt

You can always buy the opticalRendu and use a cable Ethernet SFP module. Bamm...you are there!

[vortecjr]

9 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Haha, John wrote that this is not a good idea.........

 

Matt

He said it’s was a very close second. 

[vortecjr]

4 minutes ago, Arpiben said:

 

In principle as soon as you keep the receive value within specification you have no issue. In case of higher receive levels the receiver is saturated and you degrade the bit error rate only. For such cases, optical attenuators are available, you will find them also in FS.com or with other providers.

For the values you mentioned no worries at all, in my workplace and most of Telecom centers monomode fibers are used like this.

 

That is a DIY solution...we are not going to recommend it. 

[vortecjr]

You are over thinking this:) He is talking relative differences and not global differences. If you don’t have optical that can’t be helped, but you still get all the other new features. 

[vortecjr]

1 minute ago, Arpiben said:

 

It is your product and your recommendation, fair enough even if you are not the providers/manufacturers of SFPs.

As a side  note what you consider a DIY is what is commonly used in the industry.?

 

We just need things that work in short distances without a fuss. 

[vortecjr]

5 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Explain why it matters what power supplies are used upstream of the opticalRendu. From what I understand, electrical noise can not conduct through plastic, glass and light. Explain the setup you have personally experienced where this phenomenon has occurred. 

Matt is just asking because he us curious and that’s is okay. 

[vortecjr]

4 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said:

I happen to own a streamer with a fibre optic Ethernet input. And I can't for the life of me hear a single bit of difference between any components I swap upstream of the streamer. Switches, servers, you name it. And it's not because I'm hard of hearing. I could clearly hear the difference between switches, servers, and the supplies that power them when I used to use a streamer that has copper Ethernet inputs. 

 

And I can imagine the fibre implementation on the opticalRendu is at least as good. The only thing I can see affecting a setup with an opticalRendu is the supply powering it, and the miniGBIC module.Well that and if it's receiving enough throughput from the network setup. If not dropouts will be experienced.

 

 But of course let's not rule out expectation bias. That can make for real differences in the active mind of an audiophile. When they give placebo's to patients in hospitals, the list of side effects is no shorter than is experienced with actual medications. So take comfort in the fact that this phenomenon isn't something only limited to audiophiles. 

Thanks for your feedback.

[vortecjr]

42 minutes ago, Dutch said:

 

Well that would really be golden and could make Sonore’s optical to ethernet converter a great recipe to focus just on the renderer connecting to the DAC/DDC (and forget anything upstream). And of course when people like the sound of the OpticalRendu they would also no longer have to ‘worry’ about the chain that’s “upstream” of it.

 

People have reported that off the shelf FMC’s (eg. a TP-Link MC220L) do not yet accomplish this. I myself currently have two sets of TP-Link MC220L Gigabit Ethernet Media Converters with Cisco GLC-SX-MM Mini GBIC's and 20m LC-LC OM3 multi mode fiber optic cables to isolate my audio system from the rest of my network. Romaz’s suggested direct connection between music server and renderer (see the “novel way to massively ...’ thread) was and is clearly better. Still can’t explain why. In such a setup Uptone’s etherregen would find a great home.

 

We’ll have to wait and see what happens/which consensus forms when these devices are available and out in the wild and people start experimenting with them, revisiting older setups where they used to have an off the shelve FMC etc.

 

Exciting times, again, with Sonore and Uptone Audio both releasing their first active ethernet products!

That connection scheme just connects a noisy computer directly to an endpoint. If you follow the thread they then add everything and anything known to man kind downstream to try to improve it. Some of us just want a simple solution.

 

Have a look at this thread as well.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/55216-sonore-systemoptique/

 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and comments. 

[vortecjr]

Those days have always been here though. In my living room I have two systems setup feeding my integrated amp. One is an original microRendu with a $200 USB DAC that is always ready to use. Sometimes when my friends and family come over for dinner I use the micro / DAC combo and it's always incredibly satisfying.  

[vortecjr]

36 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

Hello,

I have been running fiber for a couple of years now with FMCs that have two wall-wart LPSs. I definitely heard a difference between Fiber vs 4 different CAT8, & CAT7 RJ45 ethernet cables. I also heard a difference between a $50 iFI SMPS power supply to my RACK FMC and the $11 LPS that I'm currently using. I haven't tried a 35ft AudioQuest, Synergistic, or Cardas, ethernet cable. But I can say that a 1.5m AudioQuest cinnamon from the FMC to the ultraRendu has made a significantly audible improvement over a standard Vandersil CAT8, a Belkin based blue jeans, & a Supra CAT7.

 

We all have different systems with different capabilities and different levels of resolution. (Not to mention different quality AC). How a Fiber system may or may not isolate out electrical noise over layer 3 networks and have an affect on what is heard out of the speakers can and will vary.

Before you offer up speculation based outside direct experience, - I recommend doing some more listening......

 

My total fiber system cost me less than $100. Finally, (as John explained), there are more differences to the opticalRendu than just a Fiber NIC/SFP module.

Cheers,

 

No worries...people will always have different experiences.

[vortecjr]

15 hours ago, Dutch said:

Like I said, I’m very curious how they will all work out and what consensus will form once they’re out in the wild.

Now there is a New Years resolution that has no chance of success:)

[vortecjr]

16 hours ago, Foggie said:

Can you clarify what you are you referring to?

 

This product looks very interesting and I am seriously considering moving to this from my microU.  My fiber setup is as follows and have had very good results thus far:

 

My server, NAS managed switch etc.. are all in my laundry room and I run a ~30m fiber to listening room. 

 

My switch is a Tplink_TL-SG3216 (AC powered) and use Cisco GLC-SX-MM SFP's in the switch and in the FMC which is a Trendnet TFC-1000MGA (which sits next to microU in audio rack).  From there I use a ~ 8in cat7 unshielded (on one end) to microU and usb to Lampizator.  I only have a LPS powering the microU and a Jameco reliapro powering the FMC.  Fiber cable is LC to LC multi-mode 50/125 OM3.  There's another thread on optical that I seem to recall specifying a different type/spec of cable, but I don't remember - thoughts on the above config are welcome in preperation for the opticalRendu.

He means grounding the DC negative of the power to AC ground...AKA John’s trick.

 

That setup seems fine. You will need a matching SFP at the opticalRendu as discussed above. 

[vortecjr]

20 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

But the USB circuitry after the optical input of the opticalRendu just adds exactly what  we are trying to get rid of. Adding the extra circuits an power supply cannot be considered a good thing here. 

I don’t want to get to far off topic here. Adding i2s would take a lot more circuit, require a lot more room, and require more power to do it right. There are two ways...on board USB interface or on board CPU based. I know you are against USB, but some kind of processor and some kind of driver are always involved in generating i2s on a computer so you are not really getting away from anything. Anyway, not to discourage you...keep and eye on our Signature series;)

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, Foggie said:

OK makes sense.

 

The Cisco SFP (GLC-SX-MM ) in my Trendnet would go into the opticalRendu which would work - being the same SFP is in my switch.

 

Using my optical config explained above as a "template" of sorts and I'm sure others are using similar, what changes would you or John recommend or see as a weak point if any?

I would hover in place for now. 

[vortecjr]

5 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

@Em2016 and @Superdad you only have to search on CA (I mean AS 😊) to find that there have already been tests in Asia I think with Lumin X1 and different SFP and fibercables so the new tuberollin is already here 😁

 

With SFP modules and cables coming in MM (multimode) and SM (singlemode) and different wavelengths (850, 1310, 1550nm for example) there is alot to test 😉

 

 

Is that comparing MM to SM modules?

 

I have a couple of SFP 1310nm modules and Corning Clear cable (SMF) waiting for the new etherREGEN 😊

Maybe they need John's special circuit:) 

[vortecjr]

3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

So this means the opticalRendu won't feature your 'Clock Blocking' feature?

 

I'm starting to like that the other thread a lot...where they don't seem to worry about anything anymore:) You can also use an opticalModule as an alternative.

[vortecjr]

opticalRendu update

 

1. Production run #1  bottom boards are on order. I ordered enough to cover the mailing list a few more so if you want in please send the email to reserve a unit.

2. Production run #1 enclosures will be ordered later today.

3. Chris is receiving a systemOptique care package in the mail this morning.