Raspberry Pi as a music server?

[March Audio]

11 hours ago, Giuanniello said:

Hello everybody,

 

long story the shortest (...), I have a very vintage stereo system to whom I am finally going to add a DAC within xmas, got it as my present, the idea was to use an old MacMini as a music/movie server but found out that iTunes is very poor sound quality wise and the Mini is too old to run a recent software able to play lossless music (even tho there must sure be but I didn't look too much for one) and the Mini is a little bit noisy, no big deal but if I could take less space and less punch in the eye and being able to use a higher quality sound output software to then stream the music to the DAC I'd be happier.

 

I know the Pi is a little powerhouse and saw many projects but the vast majority includes a DAC which I won't need so, to summarise, I only need a device capable to play music both locally (through a micro SD I suppose) and/or through a NAS and a software which can take advantage of high quality lossless music; I played with Audirvana for a little and I like it enough even tho some quirks, I haven't found a version to run on an old Mac OS but I'd like something similar whose interface can be run off a smartphone.

 

Hardware wise, what does it take to arrange such a thing? Besides the Pi, which so far I seem to understand being on a Rev 3+, I guess a sound card with either optical/usb/output, is that correct?

 

Any discussion to point me at so I can start and learn about it all?

 

Grazie

 

 

Giovanni

Try Volumio

 

https://volumio.org

 

Simply download the image, burn to sd card and go. 

 

You can add a dac or spdif interface card which will just plu in on top of the pi board or just plug an external USB Dac into the pi. 

[March Audio]

4 hours ago, left channel said:

It's worth reading this article for discussion of basic RasPi USB performance vs. the Allo USBridge: https://darko.audio/2018/02/step-up-from-a-raspberry-pi-with-allo-digitals-usbridge/

 

...mmmm......my concern with that article is the lack of controlled listening and measurements.  Lots of "nice" verbose audiophile style descriptions though.....

 

RPI has limitations in data transfer rates with its shared ethernet/usb bus, so if you want high sample rates DSD you might well run into trouble.  Its relatively noisy USB 5V rail could cause issues *BUT* that entirely depends upon how the subsequent DAC behaves.  Some will be immune to PSU noise (the better designs) and some will not.

 

I have PIs, Khadas VIM2, Asus Tinker and soon an Odroid C2.  I will perform some measurements on them and the output of my DAC1.  Lets see what we can see.  There are superior alternatives to the RPI and volumio has images out of the box for Pi, Odroid, Tinker and Sparky.

[March Audio]

OK here are some measurements.

The SBCs are all running latest Volumio and Roon endpoint software. All playing via USB into my DAC1. I am playing a -60dB tone from Roon. If the PSU/SBC was causing USB noise problems you would expect to see it in the noise floor.  Spot the difference.

 

Asus Tinker 

 

RPi

 

Khadas Vim2

 

Intel Skull canyon NUC

 

Sony Laptop

 

Essentially no significant difference.  Well designed DACs should not have a major issue with using SBCs, they work very well.  Of course I cannot comment whether any particular DAC you might have will suffer problems, but I very much see this  as a DAC design issue and NOT a "noisy computer USB" issue.  DAC should be expected to work without issue with a huge variety of USB sources.

 

Oh just for reference this is the sort of thing that can go wrong if you have gnd loops.  I artificially created the problem by using the same computer that the measurement system is connected to to drive my DAC1.

8kHz USB packet noise and a bunch of other spuria.

 

[March Audio]

2 hours ago, Giuanniello said:

Good morning everybody,

 

first off I learnt that what I am looking for is called a "transport" which makes things already easier when browsing through the many hardware producers's websites, the majority of the gear seems being oriented at DACs which I won't need since, after long wait (to collect funds and to find out which hardware could have fit my needs), I finally ordered a Beresford Caiman SEG with the dedicated power supply, I plan onto connecting to it a TV screen SPDIF output and to the computer or, if and when I will get one, a transport, it will also serve to convert the signal from the CD player eventually.

 

My listening chain, at the moment, consists of a Michell Gyrodec turntable with a Rega RB300 tonearm and Audio Tecnica AT3200XE pickup, Audio Research SP9 preamp, Aeron (chinese) twin KT88 tubes AP890, Sony X505ES CD player and JBL4311B speakers (being teased by a couple of JBL L220 which need restoration...), computer wise i either plug a MacBookAir to the SP9 through an RCA to mini DIN cable or same cable solution to an old MacMini which I thought I could use as a media server but found out that iTunes sounds amazingly bad and that the Mini is probably too old to run a more modern software to better take advantage of the FLAC/ALAC quality and as such the need of a transport to make things easier (not more complicated!!!).

 

A Pi would also mean smaller footprint, so far I understand I will still need a power adapter to feed the Pi, reading your above posts seems that 5V 3A is what it takes and many of the kits already include it, then I gotta focus onto a transport and an audio board, so far I understand the USB being shared along with the ETH on the Pi and as such a dedicated board would fix the issue, I will need an audio board with the SPDIF output and/or a clean USB one, dunno which would allow better sound quality and flexibility given I am going to use an external DAC.

 

Yes, an enclosure with a touch screen would make things even easier but using a mobile or a laptop to control the box would not be big deal, still better than to have to switch the TV on and using a mouse to control the Mini.

 

I have seen Volumio's store, nice gear and ready to play ones.

 

Well, let me know if I got it right till now, a transport being what I need, a Pi at the bottom and a sound card on top, still need of that board to get rid of the jitter on the USB/ETH?

 

Player wise I think no big deal to have a couple SDs to try different ones.

 

Music wise I'd like to have it stored locally, won't like to have another box with another power adapter and more cables, other way round, I want to make it all easier with the less possible cables and plugs, I have a NAS onto which I can put the music to be streamed if the process is not too complicated but was wondering if possible to have music being read off the SD card itself.

 

Thank you all for the patience

 

Have a nice Sunday

 

 

Giovanni

Hi, 

 

I may have missed the point, but why don't you just connect the Caiman directly to the Pi via USB? As I have demonstrated above it works just fine, no need for extra boards or the extra conversion to spdif. 

 

The Pi ether net being run from USB is only an issue if you want to use very high sample rates or DSD.  If so there are several alternatives to the Pi which don't have the issue and gig ethernet connections. 

 

BTW Volumio can connect to shared folders on your Nas and access the music files from there. Pretty simple

[March Audio]

58 minutes ago, Giuanniello said:

@March Audio So, to start on the simple RPI3+ should do the job, is that correct? Then if I want I can add a board with the SPDIF output, again, correct?

 

@Thuaveta I checked Roon for NAS but my old TS212P is not supported, slow CPUs and poor on RAM too, too bad, it would have been interesting to find out.

 

By the way, to start with I'd need an RPI and a power supply, I am looking at a linear 5v 3+ Amps one to be future proof, will then look up for the RPI and a few micro SD cards as to be able to try different softwares.

 

I have the router very close by so I could run an ETH cable and then plug the USB into the DAC, will then have to figure how to stream the music to the RPI, NAS, memory card...

Yes and yes

 

Oh and don't worry about finding a linear psu, the switching ones that get offered with the Pis will be fine. 

[March Audio]

7 hours ago, Giuanniello said:

@Thuaveta?

@March Audio Great! At this stage what would be the easiest route to buy the Pi, going for the usual Amazon and get the Pi with a power supply or go through one of the sellers who assembly plug and play hardware to make sure all the needed is there?

 

I would buy the Pi, case, Psu and an 8Gb micro Sd card (one with a micro to standard size SD adaptor so you can plug it into your pc / laptop to write the software). You can buy starter bundles. 

 

It is very easy to get this running. Download the Volumio image. Write it to the SD card with the recommended free software. Plug sd card into Pi. Turn on. Access Volumio through Internet browser, set up media library and start playing music.  15 minute job. 

[March Audio]

6 hours ago, left channel said:

 

The Mac USB output can be cleaned up with a Jitterbug, Wyrd, iPurifier, iUSB, iGalvanic, USB REGEN, ISO REGEN, etc. ...but I'm sure your inner ham wants to dig into a Pi! ?  So good luck playing with HATs. 

As demonstrated above those items are unfortunately a waste of time and do nothing with a well designed dac. Galvanic isolation can be useful and is effective in specific circumstances, again shown above. 

[March Audio]

21 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

march, does your DAC 1 use opto-isolators?  I don't see them listed in the feature set on your web page.

No opto isolators . Along with many other dacs, the various required internal voltage rails are regenerated from the USB 5 volt supply, hence its relative immunity to the incoming supply vagaries. 

As mentioned there are specific circumstances where additional galvanic isolation may be useful, but ignore any marketing about reclocking usb signals etc, simply not necessary and ineffective with properly designed asynchronous dacs. 

 

BTW I will be putting on the website very soon a detailed set of Audio Precision APx555 measurements for my DAC1. 

[March Audio]

I believe it should be possible but probably easier to use a USB thumb drive. 

[March Audio]

It is a modified Khadas toneboard. I worked with khadas in an OEM capacity. I chose them after much research because the boards performance simply beats the competition extracting pretty much all there is to get out of the dac chipset. They became known as an excellent DIY option primarily because I made another site reviewer aware of them.

I would encourage anyone who wants to save money to DIY this board, it is truly beating much of the competition. Cheapest way to do so is skewer some holes in a tupperware box and stuff the board in.

If you want a finished product which is in a very high quality milled aluminium case, tested and warranted for 3 years with accessible English speaking support to take a look at the DAC1.

My amplifiers use Hypex OEM products which are superb and used by many manufacturers including NAD, Bel Canto etc. I will also be releasing a headphone Amplifier soon which is my own design and has class leading Ultra Low noise and distortion.

Followed by a streamer product based on an OEM SBC and followed by a bookshelf dsp active speaker.

Hope that helps.