AyreWave- A New OSX Audio Player Released AT RMAF

[bottlerocket]

Imac with 4gig memory, OSX 10.6.4, optical cable to CA DacMagic. A mix of 24/96, 16/44.1, 24/88 and 24/48 files. It seems to be related to memory play. E.g loading up successive tracks interferes with sample rate changing? Hope this helps.

 

[docmark]

I've listened extensively to Amarra, and have logged in several listening hours with AyreWave. Sorry, but Amarra isn't sonically superior to AW. More bells & whistles, perhaps, but not necessarily a better product than AW. As for the parametric equalizer in Amarra - try making a few adjustments and see what happens to the sound of the track being played - for the most part, I'd say sonic degradation. I'm listening to some files right now with AW, and can hear more of the music than I recall hearing with Amarra. I haven't given up on Amarra - I paid $995 for it, and hopefully Sonic Studio will continue to refine their product.

 

[CG]

Bottlerocket,

 

Do you have "Insert silence between sample rate changes" checked in Preferences?

 

[audiozorro]

I am currently evaluating HQPlayer on my Vista and Win7 computers. so far I am quite pleased with the sonics and the ability to play my highest resolutions of DXD and DSD128. Since HQPlayer also runs using Linux and on Macs using Boot Camp and Win7 I have already convinced myself to buy a MacMini and IMac next year after the Lion OS is released.

 

The positive feedback on AyreWave is quite interesting. I amazed that in the span of one week since the original post there seems to be some 300 comments. I got exhausted after reading the most recent 200 or so before finally going to the player website. Unfortunately AW only runs on Leopard. I made the decision when Pure Vinyl decided that PM and future versions of PV would no longer be supported on Tiger, that I would only upgrade my MacBook Pro memory to the 2GB max and not pay for OS upgrades to Leopard or Snow Leopard. So my time will be spent elsewhere until I buy new Macs next summer or whenever Lion is released. I will then jump in the AW fray and hopefully by then the initial software bugs will be worked out and the features of AW enhanced.

 

The one comment I could resist was "One wonders how anyone ever managed to play LP's. No iPhone remote, no eye candy interface, no nuthin'". For me, the how is not important, the why is. Why because it sounds beautiful. The fact that I maintain pristine records, have to clean them, clean the stylus, flip the records,or more. For ultimate sonics and critical listen many things are well worth the price if you want the best from your analog or digital sources.

 

 

 

[cfmsp]

Steve says:

"I understand there is a "Integer Mode" version of PM to come before year end too."

 

Rob Robinson says (upstream):

 

"(And let me also state that integer to float and back again is computationally very inexpensive, and does not affect audio quality... Direct integer support is, however, on our road map for release this quarter, to support true 32 bit DACs like the ESS SABRE.)"

 

My personal interpretation of Rob's two comments above is that the upcoming Integer mode release of PM (which you seem to be waiting for) will likely only offer an improvement (if any) with "true 32 bit DACs".

 

Perhaps Rob will clarify if my interpretation is incorrect.

 

Perhaps Rob has tested an implementation of Integer mode (in PM) with non 32-bit DACs and is using the results as the basis of his statement that conversion(s) from "integer to float and back again [...] does not affect audio quality"?

 

 

Clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Purite Audio]

With all due respect Doc, you prefer the Naim dac to your Weiss 202!

IMHO that makes your opinion rather questionable.

Keith.

 

[wgscott]

Like bottlerocket, I have an issue where AW does not appear to change the sample rate. It is hard to reproduce, but if I feed it a series of say 5 or 6 tracks and intentionally set it up so it has to change sample rate after each one, usually before the end it starts to act up.

 

This happens with or without hog mode, with or without memory play. It seems to kick in randomly but not infrequently. All audio stuff is as listed below.

 

When in Hog mode, I cannot manually change the setting in Audio MIDI, which I assume is the correct behavior. Is it possible it is updating the setting without changing the readout in Audio MIDI?

 

[CG]

When "hog" mode is active in any OS X audio application, Audio Midi can't do a lot. The volume control is often inactive as well. I'm not sure whether the sample rate indication is reliable or not.

 

If you want to see whether the sample rate is really changing and your DAC doesn't have any indicator of sample rate, you can use HALLab in Developer's Tools to monitor what is taking place.

 

Do you have "Insert silence between sample rate changes" checked in Preferences?

 

[wgscott]

"HALLab in Developer's Tools"

 

I did not know that. Thank you.

 

I've checked and unchecked the silence thing. Why? Which should I do?

 

[docmark]

Who said anything about preferring my Naim DAC to my Weiss 202? I use them in different applications. Both sound good. For computer playback I use the Weiss. I have tried Amarra, Pure Music and AyreWave - at the moment, I'd have to say AW is at the top of the heap. Sorry if I've stepped on your toes, but I certainly don't think my opinion is questionable. I do question your odd reply & motive, though. You wouldn't happen to be an Amarra dealer by any chance?

 

[CG]

Changing sample rate is not an instantaneous process. With some (all?) DACs, you can get undesired side effects if you start to play a track at a different sample rate while the DAC's sample rate is still switching. This can include noises and who knows what else.

 

Do you find less problem with sample rate switching when the add silence feature is active?

 

[Purite Audio]

I realize all those Naim boxes look good together and goodness knows you have spent an extraordinary amount,but have you actualy tried the Weiss in your home system?

Keith.

Doc also can you tell me how you feel the XDS1 compares?

Thanks Keith.

 

[Charles Hansen]

>> When in Hog mode, I cannot manually change the setting in Audio MIDI, which I assume is the correct behavior. > Is it possible it is updating the setting without changing the readout in Audio MIDI?

[Alan Brown]

I've been using AW for a week now, redbook only, and am very happy with it. It did not seem stable at first, or easy to set up, but has been fine these last 4 days or so. I am using all the features available on the player.

 

I don't know if it will be seen as bad form to leave feedback on the hard work here, but I'll do so in the spirit of constructive criticism, not negativity.

 

*The track listing is consistently in all different orders when I load a playlist (usually a whole album) fro iTunes - this was mentioned earlier in the thread I know, and it is easy to sort correctly. Still annoying though.

 

*The loading of a track into memory play at the beginning of the playlist is understandable (& congratulations on the superb sound quality of the AW memoryplay feature), but I often have to wait between 10 & 40 seconds for the next track to start. The tracks are usually under 4 or 5 minutes long.

 

*sometimes, for no reason, the next track just does not start at all, and I have to press play again.

 

*Today I have had a new playlist loaded up several times (the previous cleared) & I get a song from the previous playlist, though the display is telling me I am playing a track from the new playlist!

 

*Right now I'm enjoying Dave Grusin's West Side Story, I have sorted the track listing into its correct order. As I listen, the player is telling me I am playing the album in the normal order, but it is lying to me; The playlist is completely scrambled! All the shuffle & repeat functions are off.

 

(I'm using a 2009 MACmini, the iTunes library is on a NAS via wireless connection. Intel 2.26 processor, 2GB RAM.)

 

Interestingly the track 'lying' listing order problems have only surfaced today.

 

I am still thoroughly enjoying the excellent sonic qualities of AyreWave though - I hope that is clear & I haven't caused offence with my comments.

 

[wgscott]

Yes, it plays with the Peachtree, but it doesn't have a driver, so it isn't a good test.

 

[CG]

"but I often have to wait between 10 & 40 seconds for the next track to start. The tracks are usually under 4 or 5 minutes long."

 

Holy crap! I've never had *anything* close to this. That would be frustrating.

 

Seemingly the main difference between my set-up and yours is that my library is located on a hard drive attached to the Mini through a Firewire connection. I wonder if the NAS via wireless could be the cause of this. I don't think any of the testers have had a configuration anything like that.

 

With only 2 Gb of memory, there is probably also some loading of various stuff into virtual memory which takes some time because of all the handshaking that goes on with a network drive.

 

None of this is of any immediate help, I know, but it does give information on a legitimate system configuration that AyreWave should be able to work with. This is the point of beta testing. Thanks.

 

[wgscott]

HALLab confirms what I am seeing with Audio MIDI Setup.

 

With Hog mode turned off and insert silence turned off it didn't work.

 

I've just turned both of those on now, and it passed the first test...

 

Arrrrggghhh. Still didn't work. The weird part is that I seem to remember this working perfectly when I first downloaded it.

 

[Alan Brown]

The HD is 160GB IIRC, almost empty as the MAC is fairly new to me & I plan to pop an SSD in sometime with some more RAM.

 

I suspect you are right WRT the load time - I do plan to use an Ethernet connection when I can figure a quiet place to put the NAS in the lounge.

 

(Another reason I have hesitated is I suspect that ripping new discs to the library via dBPoweramp on the laptop would be more problematic without direct wireless access to the NAS - I did hint I was a bit of a newbie...)

 

[wgscott]

"It looks like your DAC is only capable of 96 kHz. I don't know if you are trying to play 192 kHz files,"

 

No, right now just going between 44.1 and 48 kHz. I don't actually have any music higher than 96kHz.

 

[CG]

Alan,

 

Still, this is a legitimate and probably more and more common system configuration that will be encountered as time goes by. It's an interesting challenge...

 

Slightly OT: Why use dBPoweramp as opposed to Max or XLD running on the Mac Mini? Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[wgscott]

In some of the "alpha" versions there were some problems changing sample rates. But in those cases, the player would stop and require a manual restart (just pressing "Play" again, not restarting the entire program).

 

Interesting. I just watched it fail. It gets to the end of the 44.1 kHz track, then it stops. The interface at this point says "Player Stopped." It hesitates a good 3 seconds or so, and then starts the next (48 kHz) track without changing the sample rate. The hesitation is long enough that twice now it started just as I was about to press the play button.

 

Edit: I think I have the solution.

 

If I start with "Output" and "System" both set to "Built-in Output" (which is what I use for optical out to the Nova, AND if I have Hog mode turned off, AW does the sample switching.

 

If I start with "System" and/or "Output" set to HDMI, then AW won't do the sample switching, apart from the first time when I start it.

 

If I start with "Output" and "System" both set to "Built-in Output" and have Hog Mode turned on, it will switch these to "HDMI" and then the problem appears the next time I start AW.

 

So to get it to work, I have turned off Hog mode and have to first have Output" and "System" both set to "Built-in Output". The latter must be done in the Sound preference pane for system sounds (which I have turned off anyway).

 

 

 

 

 

[bottlerocket]

"Do you have "Insert silence between sample rate changes" checked in Preferences?"

 

No, I'll try that out though and see if it makes a difference and report back.

 

[CG]

What do you have the Output Device in the AyreWave Preferences set to?

 

[bottlerocket]

It works with this combination in attached jpeg

 

If I test the same playlist with Load files into Memory checked, it stops working.

 

Edit: I am verifying sample rate both from the indicator on my DAC and the Audio Mini window.

 

[CG]

Bottlerocket:

 

Please check your CA email.