AyreWave- A New OSX Audio Player Released AT RMAF

[Richard Dale]

 

Further to that, something strange happened this morning. I ripped a new CD 'At Ease with Coleman Hawkins' and XLD got to about track 6 and then it just hung. So I quitted all the open apps, rebooted my MacBook and started again without deleting the album from iTunes. When I dropped the album onto Play the track order was wrong. So I deleted the album from iTunes and put it in the trash, and then ripped it over again. This time the track order was fine when I dropped it into Play.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what is in the thing that is in the iTunesDictionary with key of @"Tracks". I thought at first it was just things like '2/9' like you see in the UI. But then I tried albums which were made up of multiple CDs and they worked fine, although I expected all second tracks to be grouped together (eg 2/9, 2/6, 2/11 and so on if there were three CDs). So I knew that the iTunes track type was more complicated than it appeared to be. I don't know if there is public documentation for the format of the iTunes pasteboard type, but I don't really understand what is going on without seeing any.

 

 

[zerung]

Thank you Stephen F. Booth. It was high time something like AyreWave came along.

Works dandy, despite the single crash-looking forward to the actual release.

Cheers

 

[Richard Dale]

 

I disabled the 'Obtain exclusive access' option in the preferences and the clicking has stopped for me. When I read about 'hog mode' I was assuming it meant 'hog the memory mode' which is enabled by setting the 'Load file in memory option' in prefences. Instead 'hog mode' actually refers to 'hog the device mode'. There is no 'hogging' mentioned in the UI at all, which is a bit confusing.

 

 

[Guest Claude]

Hi,

wonderful program. Easy to use, sounds very good. After installing and opening the first files, my mini freezed and I had to make a hard reset! After rebooting everything works fine.

First Round:

Just did some abing with Amarra 2. On a couple of tracks I wasnt able to hear any differences. On others Amarra was clearly better to me (more space around instruments, more resonance e.g. with pianos, wider and deeper sound, more fine details).

Second Round:

Then I realised that I hadnt done any renicing of processes.

Right now I am listening to a Chopin Piano Concerto (Deutsche Grammophon, Raphal Blechacz). Wow, everything sounds the same (it colors instruments in exact the same way as amarra does). But I hear a somewhat quieter sound. Better separation. I can turn up much louder. As if I had introduced some powerfiltering. Less background noise.

So far I am very impressed. I wonder if this will stay that way in the long run.

I havent compared to pure music. If my memory serves me right, the character of Ayrewave is between amarra and pure music. But please listen for yourself because I found the sound of Pure Music slightly to vastly different then some people on this forum report.

I cant believe this is for free.

Greetings from Berlin

Claudius

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

These is NO dithered volume control available in AW, therefore no need to check the volume control to know that your playback is still bit-perfect.

 

 

The volume control feature of AW - as I understand it - is only for DACs which (can) take their volume instructions from the computer, e.g. the Wavelength Proton.

 

CG, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The Proton controls volume in the analog domain, while allowing the user to control it via computer.

 

 

 

clay

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

" * If you select an album in iTunes, and then hit the AyreWave 'import iTunes' button it adds the tracks, but selects the last one. So when you press play, it only plays the last track."

 

 

On my system, it highlights the last track added, but the 'selected' track remains the currently playing song (or the last song played), which is as it should be, in my opinion.

 

"Then there is no way of stopping the track that is playing, only pausing. So I had to delete all the album tracks and start again. I think you have to select them all before they will all play, as it only plays selected items."

 

No need to delete tracks. You can double click on any track to get it to begin play.

 

 

"* If you drag and drop an album from iTunes onto AyreWave, the tracks arrive but aren't sorted by track number. This is the same bug as in Play, but the difference is that I was able to fix it in Play as it is Free Software with the source available."

 

I've had problems with this in the past with Play, but I've not noticed it yet in AW.

 

 

 

"* It would be nice to an item in the service menu 'Play selected iTunes item', so that I could select an album in iTunes and go to the service menu to play it via AyreWave."

 

In my opinion, this would be the first step towards (asking for) too much integration between iTunes and the music player. Others have tried it (i.e. coupling between music player and iTunes), and still have challenges getting it right, in my considerable experience.

 

 

just my two cents,

clay

 

 

[Guest Claude]

Hi Clay,

am still listening. Wonderful liquid midrange. Huge soundstage. Absolutely non fatiguing.

What are your impressions?

Claudius

 

 

 

[Richard Dale]

 

cfmsp: "..On my system, it highlights the last track added, but the 'selected' track remains the currently playing song (or the last song played), which is as it should be, in my opinion.."

 

 

 

It doesn't seem right to me that when you hit play, it plays the last thing added. Now I know that I just need to select the first track and hit play, it isn't much of a problem. I also know that double clicking on a track switches from the currently playing track which makes the whole UI much easier to use.

 

 

 

cfmsp: "..In my opinion, this would be the first step towards (asking for) too much integration between iTunes and the music player. Others have tried it (i.e. coupling between music player and iTunes), and still have challenges getting it right, in my considerable experience.."

 

 

 

This should be easy to implement. In Mac OS X, and NeXTStep before it, there is the concept of a 'first responder' which is 'the thing that is currently selected in the UI'. Then the same mechanism that is used in drag and drop, to know if a drop target can handle the drag, is used to know which service can handle things of the same type as that of the first responder. Applications providing services are queried periodically as to whether they can deal with the data type of the first responder and accordingly their service menu items are either enabled or dimmed.

 

 

 

I had been thinking of adding this to Play, and maybe I should create a patch as an illustration of how to do it. I haven't managed to join the Play forum on the sbooth site, and so I could just post the patch here. It is possible that Mac OS X has changed how this works, and that it is now harder than it was with OpenStep/NeXTStep, but I would be interested as a programmer in finding out.

 

 

 

I am really impressed with the sound of AyreWave, in spite of minor problems, and I think it will be my default player now.

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

AyreWave has been my favorite player for quite some time. I expect it to remain so. I rarely listen to other players these days.

 

I prefer it sonically to all others - Amarra, Pure Music and Play (all of which I own a licensed copy of and have listened to extensively).

 

I also strongly prefer it's user interaction style and it's minimalist (i.e. no unnecessary features) nature.

 

Further, it's at least as advanced (as any other Mac-based player), and perhaps more so, in terms of incorporating the features that (seem to) improve sound, e.g. Hog mode (aka exclusive access to output), memory play and so-called Integer mode.

 

I don't know exactly how cleanly (i.e completely) Stephen was able to implement Integer mode. Perhaps we'll know in the coming days.

 

One note about Integer mode, since the app is (apparently) talking directly to the device driver, it needs to accommodate different methods that software drivers might utilize. This was definitely the case with Metric Halo's Firewire drivers.

 

It will also (seem to) require the developer to build from scratch any Core Audio functionality that is desire, as many(?) CoreAudio functions require use of floating point.

 

For example, dithering (for volume) and Integer mode are mutually exclusive, since the former requires floating point operations.

 

AyreWave is NOT for everyone, nor should it be.

 

 

clay

 

 

 

[Richard Dale]

 

"..It is possible that Mac OS X has changed how this works, and that it is now harder than it was with OpenStep/NeXTStep.."

 

 

 

Further to that, I've been trying the services menu in iTunes, and it doesn't seem to work. I get 'The "foobar" service could not be used' whatever service I try. The service menu items aren't dimmed and so I would expect them to work. Maybe because iTunes is written using the old style Mac OS 9 Carbon api, as opposed to a Cocoa application, then services don't actually work. I wonder why it actually has a services menu though.

 

 

[cfmsp]

"It doesn't seem right to me that when you hit play, it plays the last thing added. Now I know that I just need to select the first track and hit play, it isn't much of a problem. I also know that double clicking on a track switches from the currently playing track which makes the whole UI much easier to use."

 

I think I get your point now. Yuu're referring (apparently) to the instance when there is/was no previously playing/played track, i.e. when you first add a new group of music to an empty playlist.

 

I agree, it would be nice for AW to select the first track in that instance, rather than the last.

 

My point was that I'd want it to stay with the previous selection when adding to an existing playlist.

 

 

"This should be easy to implement."

 

I had assumed that the particular feature was easy to do, but still think it is the first step on a very slippery slope. Hear me out.

 

So what happens after you press play in AW (of a selection in iTunes)? Are you suggesting that AW then 'mimic' further actions in iTunes as it's user interface, i.e. to control track selection after that first track?

 

Where does one look to see what song will be played next, in the absence of manually selecting the next song? iTunes, right?

 

That's a completely different interaction style, IMO. And one that I don't encourage for AW.

 

See my point earlier about my experience with the other players trying to integrate with iTunes.

 

I prefer to use iTunes for library mgmt/consolidation (as I have other music players, and iTunes gets this right, IMO), and then use AW for creating playlists on the fly of the music I want to hear for a particular listening session.

 

 

 

 

cheers,

clay

 

 

 

 

[bluedy1]

Too complex for the average guy?

More complex than PM to set up?

 

[Lars]

As I wrote at AA, AyreWave is an excellent sounding program. Full memory playback, hog, and integer hardware support result in a midrange with great intimacy and ease that can be addicting. Clay, I have been told the specifics of the integer playback, but won't reveal this without permission.

 

AyreWave is a small program but more sophisticated than programs like Amarra 2.0 when it comes to sound quality. And remember folks, the program is still in Beta.

 

 

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

By "not for everyone" I meant that AW has only minimal features, not even a volume control, and there's no manual (not that a well designed music player should need one, in my opinion).

 

 

clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard Dale]

 

rdale: "This should be easy to implement."

 

 

 

cfmsp: "..I had assumed that the particular feature was easy to do, but still think it is the first step on a very slippery slope. Hear me out.

 

So what happens after you press play in AW (of a selection in iTunes)? Are you suggesting that AW then 'mimic' further actions in iTunes as it's user interface, i.e. to control track selection after that first track?

 

Where does one look to see what song will be played next, in the absence of manually selecting the next song? iTunes, right?

 

That's a completely different interaction style, IMO. And one that I don't encourage for AW.."

 

 

 

In my opinion there should be no logical difference between:

 

 

• Dragging an album from iTunes onto AyreWave
  
• Selecting an album in iTunes, and selecting an item from the service menu called 'Add to AyreWave'
  
• Selecting an album from iTunes, and hitting the 'import from iTunes' button in AyreWave.
  
• Dragging an album from iTunes and dropping it onto the AyreWave icon in the Mac OS X dock.
  

 

 

I see no reason why modeless UIs shouldn't be encouraged. If you need to select something in iTunes to put it into 'I have something available mode' and then go to AyreWave to hit the 'Import what you have available' button, then this just seems to be a step backwards from what we had twenty years ago in NeXTStep with service menus.

 

 

 

As long as these actions don't take over playing but just transfer data between apps, I don't see any great complications being added to the interaction style. I have said earlier that I would prefer drag and drop onto Play or AyreWave to initiate playing, but maybe that would introduce the problems you describe. But these various interactions for data transfer don't do that, and they allow the user to choose their preferred style of importing tracks in AyreWave.

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

"Clay, I have been told the specifics of the integer playback, but won't reveal this without permission."

 

Understandable, thanks.

 

 

"...result in a midrange with great intimacy and ease that can be addicting"

 

Agreed, it sounds more natural to me.

 

Clay

 

[bottlerocket]

I am finding that the sample rate does not change consistently when multiple tracks of different sample rates are loaded. The first track always seems to be correct and if you move forward to start another track it changes, but if you just let it play, the sample rate does not change. Anyone else seeing this? Since it is Beta, it would be good to get this problem defined.

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

"I see no reason why modeless UIs shouldn't be encouraged. If you need to select something in iTunes to put it into 'I have something available mode' and then go to AyreWave to hit the 'Import what you have available' button, then this just seems to be a step backwards from what we had twenty years ago in NeXTStep with service menus.

 

As long as these actions don't take over playing but just transfer data between apps, I don't see any great complications being added to the interaction style."

 

I think I understand what you're saying.

 

It seems that you're not suggesting that iTunes be integrated with AW, but rather, you're just asking for one click addition to the AW playlist.

 

So, to answer my own question above - all initiation of playback would still occur within AW in your recommended approach it seems.

 

thanks for the clarification,

clay

 

 

[wgscott]

"Sample rate not changing"

 

This is a bug I also noticed in play. If you have two different audio outs, like me (HDMI and builtin for optical), I've noticed if you have your machine set to optical, and you open AyreWave and it is in "hog mode" and set to play optical, it works. But as soon as it opens, it sets the default audio to HDMI (the idea being all system sounds etc get piped through the other hose). But then you close it and reopen it, the machine is set to HDMI and AyreWave uses the builtin, which works fine, but under those conditions (like Play), it sometimes (but not totally reproducibly) will not change sampling frequency.

 

My workaround is to disable hog mode and keep the computer set to use the builtin audio output before AyerWave is open.

 

Once this bug gets sorted out, I think it is a real advantage, as I can leave the default to HDMI for everyone else in the family, and then I can just open and close AyreWave without having to worry about switching.

 

[wgscott]

The album art shows up in 3 places: Title bar, dock icon, and in the inspector window (the last of which is not updated automatically).

 

[roscoeiii]

Via firewire to a Weiss DAC2, AyreWave is doing fine switching sample rates for me.

 

I know a lot of problems that folks are having will pop up in this thread, so I thought I'd post on how well it is working for me, considering that it is a beta version. Well done!

 

As for integration with iTunes, etc. I have also found that I have really enjoyed interfaces in the menu bar such as YouControlTunes. Might be another great way to use AyreWave.

 

[church_mouse]

OK, after a couple of days of testing in my MacMini, Dac2 set up, I have to admit that, for me, it definitely has the edge over Play (my preferred player) through both my speaker and headphone systems.

 

This is rather annoying because, being the idiot I am, I have tended to take great care in getting the tagging info correct/suitable and worried rather less about the folder structure on my hard-drive. (My rips are all flac, so i-Tunes has been irrelevant to me).

 

Therefore, before I start having to sit down and spend some time thinking about my folder structure, especially for the classical music part of my collection, has anyone got any idea how much this piece of software is likely to cost when it is in full official release mode?

 

[cfmsp]

 

"This is rather annoying because, being the idiot I am, I have tended to take great care in getting the tagging info correct/suitable and worried rather less about the folder structure on my hard-drive. (My rips are all flac, so i-Tunes has been irrelevant to me)."

 

Do you find that AW does not handle files in the manner you've set them up to support Play? I'd have assumed that the same basic file setup would be rather transportable since Stephen developed both.

 

I'll admit to not having a clue though, as I've always used iTunes for library mgmt.

 

clay

 

[bottlerocket]

Since it does not play in conjunction with Itunes, what are the options for remote control? The Apple Remote app does not work with it.

 

[wgscott]

My workaround doesn't work.