Article: Kii THREE Loudspeaker Review

[mitchco]

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[mitchco]

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

I am curious if the sound can be further improved using DSP?  The  graphs showing the in room response versus the ideal still shows some pretty big dips and peaks.  Since you already have the capability and obvious expertise, why not apply some modest DSP to further improve things?

 

Hi tboooe, yes, I could have used DSP below 500 Hz to smooth out the room modes/standing waves. I have (very) unfavourable room ratios - only thing worse is a cube shaped room. This is a fun room mode calculator to play with, in case you have not seen it: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc  I was just happy that I could achieve a nice neutral sound, as most speakers have way too much high frequency energy output with no way to tame it...

 

However, having played extensively with DSP, I find that if one can keep the dips and peaks at ± 5 dB, below 500 Hz, it is not too noticeable, which is what I was able to achieve with the THREE's on-board boundary eq and contour/tone controls.  I expect the response will be better for most folks due to better room ratios. The purpose of the review is to show what the speakers are capable of, without any outside assistance.

[mitchco]

@Jud Don't know... You could go to their site and contact Bryan...

 

@Pure Vinyl Club Thanks.  Probably in 30 days for the D&D 8c review. I am contemplating how to do a fair comparison after that...

 

@loop7 and @baconbrain Thanks! @input username here Thanks! Yes, the blue is nice. It would be interesting to hear the BXT extension module...  But it is surprising to hear how much and how low the THREE's go!

[mitchco]

47 minutes ago, MikeJazz said:

Thanks for the excelente analysis.

I was so excited to experience the kii that  recently went to the local dealer to have a listen.

This must have been one of the most disappoint experiences I had. Maybe in part due to the previous hype surrounding the kii.

 

I hear some of the well know qualities: spacious sound, dinamic, revealing, time coherent, yes.

 

But I also heard a speaker with some issues on presenting tone. Tone was not rich, voices did not sound natural, but a bit harsh. On the end it was a bit disappointing hear that the speaker was lacking on the tone department. Tone is very important to get me involved in the music. 

 

The quest to find a replacement for my QUAD ESL 2805 continues...

 

Mike, I understand. It could be that the Kii's were not set up properly, as it does make quite a big difference. Not only setting up the boundary eq, but taming the high frequency energy output. Note I had to dial in a -4 dB shelf at 3 kHz for the tone to sound neutral as per the Harman's research. That's a lot of high frequency reduction! Given that you said the voices sound a bit harsh is a tell take sign to me that the speakers were not set up properly. With the -4 dB shelf at 3 kHz, they never sounded harsh to my ears, no matter how loud I turned them up or what the music content was.

 

Those QUAD ESL 2805 speakers are very nice. Looking over at Stereophiles measurements, I can see that they already have the built-in downward tilt in the frequency response. In fact, looking at JA's measurements, it is almost exactly a -10 dB tilt from 20 Hz to 20 kHz that the folks from Harman (and I) suggest as neutral sound reproduction with good timbre (i.e. tone quality). Good choice man! I hope you get a 2nd chance to listen again, but able to dial down the treble energy as "out of the box", as with virtually every speaker I demo, there is way to much high frequency output, which for sure skews the tonal balance. Especially with the Kii's, as they are very uncoloured plus having too much high frequency energy output would not be a pleasant listening experience.

[mitchco]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Best review of these speakers I've seen. Lots of technical stuff for those interested but good non-technical language for those that prefer that too.

 

 

 

 

Thank you! That's the balance I am trying to achieve with speaker and headphone reviews here on CA.

[mitchco]

10 hours ago, Danny Kaey said:

nice review Mitch! I think that high-end audio is facing an ever increasing dilemma... move forward with technology or fall way, way behind... the issue we have is driven by fundamentals of our fractured industry where on one end we have something like Kii, and on the other hand, royal Japanese paper cone 6" full-range speakers; you can't possibly sell these side by side with a straight face. Thus, what's a manufacturer to do: design for the old school guard and lose marketing ability to the new generation, or design for the new generation and leave the old guard behind. 

 

Thanks Danny! Yes, this is the conundrum isn't it... I am an early tech adopter for using DSP to control the frequency and timing response of speakers using customer FIR filter designers. Some FIR designers are better than others, but the top ones are very good. Now we are seeing some of that capability come with the loudspeaker itself. Plus new capabilities like controlled directivity with some level of room correction (e.g. SBIR control).  These new capabilities sound and measure better than older designs... Not saying older designs are losing their appeal, but it will be interesting to see what manufacturers come up with design wise and what audio consumers gravitate to... 

[mitchco]

@sixman thanks! As @firedog says not really similar concepts. From my review of the Phantoms:

- are not time aligned

- not a cardioid response, nor any room boundary compensation

- from 5 kHz to 20 kHz a +5 dB lift compared to my reference - too bright sounding

- from 20 Hz to 60 Hz a +8 dB lift compared to my ref - too much bass bump

- subjectively, the quality of sound from the bass drivers are... different.

 

There is no on-board eq for the Phantoms, so external eq would be required to tone down both ends of the frequency spectrum in order to sound neutral.

Positively, the Phantoms  midrange and tweeter do have a smooth frequency response and wide dispersion (i.e. directivity) due to the cabinet design...

[mitchco]

Thanks @Chiptech It took a while to find a doc on what Space Optimisation does: http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/8/84/SpaceOptimisation.pdf 

 

I have no doubt it makes a difference, as room modes, factoring in distances, absorption coefficients in an open or closed space is well known in small room acoustics. Both the Kii THREE and the D&D 8c use a similar technique for room boundary issues.

 

It would be interesting to see before and after measurements to verify the effectiveness... Have you seen any?

 

Thanks for the link to the electricity article. I will look at it in more detail when I have some time. Happy listening!