Lies about vinyl vs digital

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

This piece may interest you:

 

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/goodresolutions/page1.html

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/goodresolutions/page2.html

 

Total Noise Level	‘flat’ 20 Hz - 20 kHz	A Weighted
CD-A	-92 dB	-94 dB
LP	-46 dB	-61 dB

 

 

 

You forgot to mention the vast difference in channel separation !

 

 Perhaps we should sic the C.I.A. onto GUTB , as he sure doesn't seem to come from this planet !

 

 

 

 

verb

• To cause a guardian or official to attack or pursue a wrongdoer. (rural Southern)

  He'll sic his dog on trespassers.

•  The Online Slang Dictionary

[sandyk]

22 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

 

…….The other aspect of digital vs. Analog that is important is that digital music files and music streams can be ‘reconditioned’, with retiming, jitter and noise removal etc. Once a digital stream has been cleaned up, it must be protected from further noise contamination.

 

 Not just with Digital Audio either. This applies just as much to Digital Video, even with uploaded .ts streams from HD TV !

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

The digital version seems severely hampered in terms of dynamic force / power,

 

In part due to the markedly reduced channel separation of vinyl, with more sound concentrated in the centre of the image, instead of perhaps a pin point localisation.

 

[sandyk]

6 minutes ago, GUTB said:

The imaging on the LP is significantly better. Part of that is the result of the tubed phono stage I'm using but still.

 

 Absolute garbage !

Pinpoint imaging is highly dependent on the amount of channel separation, and Vinyl cartridges rarely have even 45dB separation between channels. Lower than that, and the central image becomes quite a bit more diffused (wider) which many may find more pleasing.

 A tubed Phono stage is simply not capable of the S/N of the best Solid State designs either, although that is probably less important due to the markedly lower S/N of a vinyl pressing compared with Digital.

Also, the S/N of a low noise Solid State Moving Coil Preamplifier can be markedly improved by the use of several low noise parallel devices, which you can't readily do with valves.

 

What you are reporting is entirely due to personal taste !

 If that floats your boat, fine, but don't claim that it is due to the superiority of vinyl over digital !

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

With older CDs, you are likely hearing issues with less-evolved ADC converters, and jitter and timing issues with the recording chain 35 years ago.  But those are NOT lent by Redbook itself!

 

 With some older albums such as " Roberta Flack-Killing Me Softly," where the tracks are at quite a low level, with only one or 2 peaks even reaching -6dB,  you are likely to be limited by the S/N of your gear.

It took me quite a bit of work to find out just how good the title track really is. Just don't assume that with pre - Loudness War albums that the analogue gear they used back then is to blame.

 I have heard a copy of the Master of " Peggy Lee-Fever" before all the other bits were mixed in , and it sounds FABULOUS, even by today's standards. Even some of the old Julie London albums can  sound damn good too with gear of decent quality.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

This soundtrack album,

 

 

has probably the most extreme dynamics, in popular music, I've come across - the YouTube clips barely hint at how it actually comes across, when played from the CD.

 

I only found out about it, because friends brought a copy to try out - it sounded so terrible on their system, they wanted to know if the recording "was broken" ...

 

Another clip,

 

 

 

 I would love to see him play Telarc's 1812 on Vinyl in comparison with the CD , or " Grace Jones-Nightclubbing " from the Blu Ray in 24/192 .

[sandyk]

9 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

It's a CD. I own it.

https://www.discogs.com/Tchaikovsky-Erich-Kunzel-Cincinnati-Pops-Orchestra-Tchaikovsky-1812/release/2375701

 I owned the one in the attached photo.

 When I went to play it after purchasing it, I found deep gouge marks across it. The store obviously didn't believe that I hadn't done this, but reluctantly replaced it.

 I presume that a staff member in the store had borrowed it and blown  up their speakers because he /she didn't heed the clear warning on the cover.

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

The only things vinyl has going for it are the expense and the inconvenience.

 

Not quite. Many like the large artwork of a cover that size.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, ajay556 said:

Time and time again vinyl has been sweeter and smoother than digital. And the proof is in the engineering of storing and retrieving data. Cannot agree with science.

 And please don't get me started with digital cameras and film cameras. Film photos is far superior in quality than digital's resolution -  any day

 

A very good comparison is a sketch artist

One draws a picture of a person based on data given by another person  - DIGITAL

Other draws a picture of the person from the person sitting right infront - ANALOG

 

Go figure which picture will be more accurate!!!!

 Don't write off digital

If you are able to, download the attached as 3840 x 2160 .webm and see the difference, even when downsampled to be viewed on a 1080P monitor.

UHDTV 8K Video Ultra High Definition 7680x4320 - 8K Hub Ultra HD  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIAhOVpnD8g

 

 

P.S.

 I use the free version of WinX YouTube Downloader.

[sandyk]

25 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Two peas in one horrible pod. They should both be in jail.

 

 Perhaps, but remember that this is an INTERNATIONAL forum.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

you want to jail Boris "Brexit Boy" Johnson too?

 

I feel sure that the Poms can take care of their own problem politicians.

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

  8 hours ago, gmgraves said:

However I know that the difference between a 20 Megapixel Raw digital  image blown up to fit a 100" screen and a Kodachrome color slide projected with a Leitz Pradolux projector on the same 100" screen would favor the Kodachrome absolutely,

 

 A UHDTV 8K Video Ultra High Definition 7680x4320 picture has a resolution of 33Megapixels, not 20.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

Alex, you can't talk to both at the same time and blame both. Anyway, here's my 42MP :

 

 

And we are not talking about TV. Just saying. Or : Movies will never utilize the height.

But this is all not important of course.

 Peter

 Your attention is needed here in the most recent posts

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/forum/9-music-servers/

Alex

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, hifitommy said:

could follow any one instrument in the orchestra with full clarity and extension.  something that RBCD is not capable of.  

 

...hifitommy

 

Then the quality of your Digital section is in need of a MASSIVE upgrade.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, hifitommy said:

RBCD has it's distinct limits and LP allows us to settle into the Music at hand

 

 RBCD also has it's minor limitations which is why there are the hi res formats and DSD.

 However, unless you have a vinyl recording such as perhaps a Half Speed Mastered disc ,which may have frequency content as high as 35kHz when new, your typical Vinyl recording does not have this frequency extension and will lose a little of it's HF performance every time it is played. It will then have a HF capability of less than the 22kHZ of a CD which does not change, as well as a higher surface noise level. There will also be some colouration due to tone arm resonances etc.

Many Vinyl lovers also have TTs and cartridges etc. that cost WAY more than the digital components that they own ,which is more often than not a CD player worth only a couple of a hundred dollars.

In every other parameter, a CD easily beats a Vinyl set up. The S/N is much higher, the channel separation is vastly greater, and the Dynamic range is also considerably greater. 

Perhaps you prefer the larger than life (diffused) centre image from Vinyl which is due to a channel separation rarely exceeding 35dB ? . 

[sandyk]

15 hours ago, John Dyson said:

The 'DHDA' versions are decoded, and actually sound more 'natural'.

 

 Yes, the decoded Abba versions sound far more natural, especially " Day Before You Came",  but why are they 48K ?

Were they taken from Video ?

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Also I have some ABBA Gold and more ABBA Gold (Japanese again), which are DolbyA encoded. 

 John

 After hearing yours, I searched around for the same from commercial CDs of Abba Gold encoded in .flac.

 I presume what you posted came from Japanese releases as they sound markedly better than a couple of the normally available " Gold" CDs even before being decoded to .wav before playback ?

 

Alex.

[sandyk]

13 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Mitsubishi Magna; 30, 29. These are certainly too low for the construction of the tyres it's using - I settled on 35, 32; cold, when air temp is about 20C - some time ago; they had to have very high pressure when new, the compound is designed for comfort and tread life  ... I just checked, and the pressure is still a touch low, from the garage fill, needs another psi or so.

Frank

 What a Mitsubishi Magna benefits most from though, is the use of Nitrogen in the tyres which is at a higher pressure than with normal air.  The tyres run cooler, are an improved ride, and are safer in the wet too, with Nitrogen in them.

Nitrogen is readily available at all Bob Jane stores for a one off fee and you won't need to get down on your knees for " top ups" for typically 12 months.

" Top ups" are normally free from Bob Jane stores if you are a customer of theirs.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

44 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

Not the pure nitrogen fairy tale.....

 

Plain old air and nitrogen both have to follow the ideal gas laws. Tires do not run cooler, do not give an improved ride, and are not safer in the rain with nitrogen. Hell, air is 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. 

 

So what is the difference and why do tire shops often use nitrogen? Because they make sure the container holding the nitrogen has no moisture (water) in it. That is what important. Not that it is all nitrogen. I have a nitrogen tank that I take to the track for my dampers and tires. I also have a drier system on my air compressor at home. So there is no moisture in my air compressor system. I have used both dry air and nitrogen at the same pressure in my races tires and there is zero difference in behavior. Why? The ideal gas law is the same for both.

 I don't give a damn what you believe. Have you actually tried using Nitrogen in your tyres ?

 I base my reports on personal experience, including the need to get down on my Arthritic knees far less frequently to  top up my tyres.

Neither is a build up of condensation in a tyre a problem when using Nitrogen instead of normal air . 

Quote

The basic idea of Nitrogen gas is that it is cooler than compressed air and therefore is useful in any driving conditions. Why? A cooler tyre means that the stress levels on the tyre while moving are lesser. The tread wear and tear is also lesser due to the lesser temperature. 

Higher temperature in tyres also has a tendency to burst after long hours of running. Nitrogen reduces the chances of tyre burst by 90%. This can prove to be a lifesaver while on the highway where long hours and high speed, both pose a threat to the car and its passengers . - https://www.zigwheels.com/guide/four-wheeler-tyre-guide/the-benefits-of-filling-nitrogen-in-your-cars-tyres/8530/

Note also that most of my round trips of around 240KM  several times a week are on the M1 Motorway at speeds of 110KMH.

Also,

Quote

Why are commercial aircraft tires filled with nitrogen? - Quora

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-commercial-aircraft-tires-filled-with-nitrogen

Feb 1, 2016 - Aircraft tires are filled with nitrogen because nitrogen gas is mostly inert, meaning that it requires more energy to react with other substances. This is important because at elevated temperatures, oxygen can react with rubber. Oxidized rubber is weaker than non-oxidized rubber, and weaker tires are not preferred.

 

[sandyk]

Typical reactions from the same usual Theory based Objective members.

Why should this surprise me ?

 

Quote

Besides I have a set of 44 year old tires and the rubber is still good with nothing other than natural air in them.  

Filled with the usual hot air ?

 I didn't realise you were only 44 years old !

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, AudioDoctor said:

@sandyk you're basically arguing against Boyles Law...

 

good luck with that one.

 

 There are millions of people worldwide who appreciate the benefit of Nitrogen in tyres especially at high Motorway speeds.

 The safety aspect is well recognised by Airlines worldwide too.

 Perhaps there would be far fewer shredded tyres on the side of the Motorways if tyres ran a little cooler ?

Quote

Reduces the tyre's running temperature

While there is some truth in this statement, the difference relates to the moisture content of the inflation gas rather than the use of nitrogen per se. In fact, dry compressed air will also produce a cooler running tyre. It's also only likely to be of benefit in cases where the tyres are operating at or near their maximum load and/or speed capacities. -  R.A.C.Q.

 

 

[sandyk]

35 minutes ago, diecaster said:

Dry air and dry nitrogen are the same in this regard

That's not being disputed as you will have seen from my recent reply.

 Most air compressors do not appear to have much control over the moisture content.

Quote

Neither is a build up of condensation in a tyre a problem when using Nitrogen instead of normal air . 

This is from my initial reply.

 

Your antiquated 68MPH is not so safe on a major motorway in peak hour traffic with many motorists taking risks to shave a couple of minutes off their times, even with large numbers of Interstate transport trucks alongside them also doing 110KMH .

 I have already seen several major truck fires recently, even severely damaging the road surface, and numerous accidents, some  with loss of life due to impatient and inexperienced tail gating drivers.

[sandyk]

31 minutes ago, esldude said:

Think the off topic posting has increased after the name change? 

 NO!

It's just another sign that a topic has passed it's "Use By Date"
 

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, esldude said:

Plenty.  Some number in the millions at least. 

You probably class the attached as competent too  ?  

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55514-so-how-does-a-1299-dac-sound/

 

 

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, esldude said:

No I wouldn't. I've checked a few of similar devices. They usually have very poor clocking with prodigious amounts of jitter, substandard distortion and poor frequency response.

 

 Did your ears tell you this, or didn't you listen to them after first doing the measurements ?  (Evil Grin)