Using HiFace bnc what cables?

[Gulinias]

I was not sure where to put this but I thought I would try this forum. I am going to try out a Bryston dac in my system and I realize the usb interface is not the best way to hear the Bryston. My reading seems to indicate the aes or the bnc are the best sounding choices. I assume people that use the Legato just use the cable they provide. That is not the case with the HiFace and a quick look at digital cables makes it seem most digital cables are rca or aes. Is there a cab;e that is exce;;ent that is bnc to bnc or bnc to aes? Are there adapters to allow this connection? This could be rca to bnc, bnc to aes or bnc to aes. Cable wise bnc to bnc is the simplest but bnc to aes would work. This site has helped me bridge the gap from a long time audiophile to one having some understanding of computer based audio. Thanks in advance! The Bryston is far from the only dac this would be relevant for. I do understand that the HIFace is a high res interface and the legato provides CG redbook res but does a wonderful job with it. This is not what one to buy thread but how to hook them up using the bnc output of both devices.

 

[jonmarsh]

I use Canare 75 ohm cables, the VIC010F using 8281F cable with Canare BCP-C7 BNC connectors; you can get those at Markertek for about $40; primary use of these 75 ohm cables is video, but they work fine for SPDIF also. I use the 15 ft version, because then any reflections are delayed enough they won't impact the transmitted edges; they sound better in my experience than short cables, and you can see that on the scope (you do have a 1GHz scope, don't you? ;^) seems to be mandatory for good audio trouble shooting these days...

 

My understanding from your post is that like me, you do have a Hiface with the BNC output, not the RCA output, and that your DAC has BNC input. If that's that's not the case, and you want to use BNC cables, that's possible, using RCA to BNC adpaters (you can even get these at a Radio Shack store) but something of a waste of time, as the impedance discontinuity of the RCA connector will still be there- the best thing you can say about BNC is that it looks electrically like an extension of the cable, because there is not disruption of the physical parameters. If you do use a cable with adapters, then I DEFINITELY recommend you go with a 15-20 ft cable, for the reasons given.

 

[earflappin]

Excellent advice jonmarsh. This has been my experience as well with BNC/BNC cables. Now then, I have a HiFace BNC coming and one of the things I want to experiment with is directly coupling the HiFace to the BNC input of my DAC - i.e. sans digital cable and use an active USB cable. Then I will compare that sonically to plugging the HiFace directly into the computer USB port and using a 15' BNC/BNC cable.

 

 

 

[barrows]

digital cables can be ordered: BNC-BNC, or BNC-RCA as necessary. The Stereovox XV2 (now there is a newer, slightly better model) comes with BNCs and adapters for RCA, but as mentioned, I would only use adapters when absolutely necessary. If you have a product with an RCA connector for digital, I would recommend having a good tech replace the RCA with a good BNC jack (Amphenol or Canare), as RCA cannot be true 75 ohm impedance.

Another very good SPDIF cable is the Nordost Silver Shadow, this can be ordered through a Nordost dealer with any combination of RCA/BNC connectors.

 

[Matias]

The excellent Stereovox XV2 by Chris Sommovigo is now discontinued and is about to be replaced by his latest digital cable called Veloce (US$ 123). See the website: http://blackcat75.ning.com/page/veloce-digital-cable

 

He also has a über-high-end line of digital cables called TRON and XV Ultra with another brand name (Stereolab). See here: http://www.stereolab-hifi.com/

 

[agentsmith]

This company seems a little strange with many different names, so far I have seem the brand Stereovox, Stereolab, i2Digital, Blackcat and I think there is more.

 

Is there any reason why this company has so many different identities?

 

[ar-t]

Someone, maybe a member here, sent me a link from some other forum, where some industry know-it-all stated "no self-respecting engineer" would recommend that.

 

Luckily for the schmo that posted that, I have no use for lawyers, or I would sue him for slander. Wonder why people who we have not done business with are also using long cables? Probably because, rather than bloviate, they actually tried it.

 

Somewhere on our site, there are graphs that show how much sticking in a BNC-RCA adapter affects things.

 

Using AES would be much worse. First, the impedance of the two are different. The return loss would be around -14 dB, which is rather poor. Unlike the reflection from using the wrong connector, which only shows up as a "blip", in a time-domain measurement, the reflection from AES would be a constant mismatch. Which is much worse. Adding to that, the XLR connector has a large mismatch "blip, similar to a RCA connector. So, AES, mixed with SPDIF consumer interface, would be a far worse match.

 

[Gulinias]

Hmm I guess my question about what cable to use and I do appreciate all your answers caused a problem. I never doubted that you could use longer cables and in fact I have no idea and I accepted that the posts saying that would be a fine idea. I am not to sure with my setup I could do that but never the less I never doubted the veracity of what they were saying. I guess I should go the Art sight and take a look around as I always want to learn all I can. I do think the legato is a great product and I am sure the designer knows exactly what can work for the connection and is veery knowledgeable about the subject. I am glad I asked as I now know that I can run 15 foot cables if I want to change the system around to make that viable. I guess my next question is for a 8 foot run what cables would people employ and my soldering is not to good as I have not done any in like 20 years. I might be able to do that and it would help my set up inmeasurably.

 

[ar-t]

Very short cables are problematic. Yes, they will work. Yes, you will get music from your system. it just won't be as good, as it will be with a longer one. 8' is fine. There should be a more detailed explanation of all of this, somewhere on our site.

 

[ar-t]

Really? I know a guy who claims the guy who makes those cables "stole" all of the first guy's ideas. So much for "super secret". (Honesty disclosure: no idea if guy #1 is right, but I do know he collaborated with guy #2 at one time, so may be a grain of truth.)

 

[earflappin]

If you are monitoring this board I sent you a private message a couple of days ago. Thanks.

 

[Lizard_King]

Stereovox XV Ultra!

 

[Matias]

... StereoLAB XV Ultra.

Stereovox is gone, R.I.P.

 

[Lizard_King]

StereoVox is Not gone, the site is going through changes.

 

[Lizard_King]

The excellent Stereovox XV2 by Chris Sommovigo has a new version call the XV Ultra. I use the XV2 with my Hi-Face and this cable is AWESOME.

 

[kamil]

FWIW I am now using the long U-byte cables from Analog Research with my hiFace. Took a long time to for it to reach me but soundwise it has bettered all the other exotic short and long cables I have in the bag....Especially in the bass. None were Stereovox though.

 

[Gulinias]

I am not sure if they are gone but I know the designer of the Cables is gone. He is over at Stereolab which I take is Stereovox reborn. They have a 350 dollar cable I may try and they are producing a 123 dollar cable for black cat a value based line of the same company that I do not think is yet out. I will be checking that today. I am not saying that Stereovox is gone for good but he is definitely the lead designer of all the the Stereolab and black Cat cables that are going to be released. I won't even try to spell Chris's last name from memeory.

 

[Matias]

That's his name.

 

[gsquared]

The Stereovox XV2 is EXCELLENT! I've compared it to a $1,000+ cable and I kept the Stereovox. It's really an excellent cable.

 

[regal]

Steve N from Emprical Audio pretty much blew the long cable is better myth out of the water, he showed much fewer reflections the shorter the cable.

 

[ar-t]

My recollection is that he went from long to short when he increased the speed of the output signal. That only meant the transition phase of the signal was shorter, and less subject to interface jitter. Which is where the long cable helps things.

 

The problem now becomes making a good resistive match, on both ends, out to a much higher frequency. Something most companies can not do.

 

Since most here don't have a really fast signal, he didn't blow anything out of the water.

 

(But what do I know? 40+ years of working with RF is all a figment of my imagination. At least, some seem to think so.)

 

 

[Matias]

'Well ... first you should understand a few technical things about cable length. Or maybe just one technical thing about cable length: It's the electrical length that counts, not the physical length per se. A cable's electrical length is determined by its "velocity of propagation" - the speed of the signal through the medium of the cable. The velocity is affected by the dielectric constant of the insulator between the signal wire and the ground plane. The higher the dielectric constant, the lower the velocity.

 

The slower the signal, the longer the wavelength is for a given frequency ? the longer the electrical length (or apparent length) of the cable is from the perspective of the signal.

 

This means, unequivocally, that several digital cables of the same physical length but with varying dielectric constants (and varying velocities) will have apparent electrical lengths that are different from one another. Hopefully this will help put to rest the urban legends with regard to generic "best lengths" for all digital cables.'

http://blackcat75.ning.com/page/veloce-digital-cable

.

That's it. :-)

 

[bearvv]

Hi Gulinias,

 

Did you read this review? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/review-oyaide-db-510-analog-sounding-digital-cable-469313/

 

I ordered a Oyaide DB-510(0.7m) directly from amazon jp as well, but not yet received it.

 

[Spacecowboy]

Hi Folks,

 

if this cable get such a positive feedback, I would like to know where one can buy this. I am located in Germany and would need an internet source to buy as I assume there is no distributor in Germany ?

 

Thanks for a hint :-)

 

Cheers

Christian

 

[bearvv]

Hi Spacecowboy,

 

If you are living in Germany, you can see if you can get the cable from US. Or you can open an mail forwarding account at tenso.com(free), they will forward what you order from amamzon jp to your German address.

 

Most Japanese won't ship their product overseas, so you need to find a mail forwarding company if you want to buy something from Japan. Hope this help.