Understanding Sample Rate

[Ralf11]

some grist for the mill...

 

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/215/2/ii

 

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

some grist for the mill...

 

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/215/2/ii

Note the sound levels involved, upwards of 80 dB.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

Here is what should be an understandable explanation about why there aren’t an infinite number of distinct frequencies between say 1kHz and 2kHz:

 

When 2 equal amplitude waves are supposed (added together) the resultant wave frequency is the mean of the 2 and the amplitude varies with a frequency which is the difference between the two.

 

There are many examples on the web which explain and graph this — take a look. 

 

As two waves of slightly different frequencies are added and as the frequencies move closer together, the amplitude variation lessens to the point where it cannot be resolved within the signal SNR. It is not possible of improve the SNR without limit, At this point the two frequencies are indistinguishable. This is the uncertainty principle applied to frequency. The limit of SNR is the uncertainty principle applied to amplitude — essentially the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. 

 

In s digital system, the bit depth forms and be bound on the SNR aside from the physical bound in the SNR. This is why a discrete Fourier transform works with a finite number of bins.

all greek to me, but i "believe" it enforces what i said, and like i conceded, that the fact that the theorem is band limited, suggests that nyquist frequency is not able to capture perfectly, but "good enough".  I am able to accept that, knowing that criteria. 

I currently still believe dsd to be supeior to cd and that increasing the sample rate in pcm allows for better sq due to filtering of sorts.

[esldude]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

The early Sony players multiplexed a single DAC for both channels resulting in one channel being delayed by 11.3 μs. That doesn't mean the format itself is insufficient.

And did they not have an analog bit to fix that delay at least mostly?  Or am I mis-remembering that?

[esldude]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Bone conduction doesn't work for airborne sounds.

 

This kind of Airborne:

 

Those helmets must be to prevent bone conduction of falling thru the air at 130 mph.  

[esldude]

1 hour ago, Spacehound said:

They don't need them, they can hear  57K easy.

 

Are they US citizens? Can't have any North Korean ones. Mexican ones are even worse..

You think Mexican dolphins are working with Mexican dogs on infiltration? Or is that Bill Scott's dog?

[esldude]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

 

Maybe, but its also known that 4X rates cover what’s found in the vast majority of recordings, that don’t have either extremely low  or high frequencies - they don’t make it past the microphone. 

The other question is one we don’t talk about much, and that is if 4X and above rates cause more distortions and non linearities in the reproduction chain than the positive qualities they might add. 

Which positive qualities are these?

[esldude]

1 hour ago, marce said:

I believe yes. My youngest are twins born premature, very. I spent 16 years of speech therapy with my son because he is neurologically deaf between about 3 and 8Khz, how they confirmed this was by doing bone conduction tests (I believe it bypasses the ear canal). But like all hearing its just another way the pressure waves are transmitted to the ear, the same rules of hearing still apply, 20-20. It's the same reason your voice sounds alien when played back from a recording and how you can have totally silent headphone (bonephones).

Was it possibly impulse testing?  They do impulse testing of infants.  They can tell by the way the reflection is shaped if the hearing mechanism is functioning or not. 

[beerandmusic]

my biggest take away from this is that I am going to see if I enjoy multi-channel over stereo for listening pleasure.

Has anyone else gone this direction either to stick with or to go back to stereo?

 

[esldude]

1 minute ago, beerandmusic said:

my biggest take away from this is that I am going to see if I enjoy multi-channel over stereo for listening pleasure.

Would that be infinite channels?

[mansr]

13 minutes ago, esldude said:

And did they not have an analog bit to fix that delay at least mostly?  Or am I mis-remembering that?

The portable D-50 has no such feature. That's the one I have measured.

[Ralf11]

11 minutes ago, esldude said:

 

This kind of Airborne:

 

Those helmets must be to prevent bone conduction of falling thru the air at 130 mph.  

 

I will see your special ops option and raise you many kHz....

 

[esldude]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

The portable D-50 has no such feature. That's the one I have measured.

I was thinking of the first full size Sony CD player. 

[mansr]

1 minute ago, esldude said:

I was thinking of the first full size Sony CD player. 

I've never got my hands on one of those. Feel free to send me one.

[sandyk]

 

Extremely high frequencies causing distortion in the audible band  ?

[Spacehound]

18 minutes ago, esldude said:

You think Mexican dolphins are working with Mexican dogs on infiltration? Or is that Bill Scott's dog?

I've only ever seen a 'culturally appropriated'  imitation Mexican. Never a real one.

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

my biggest take away from this is that I am going to see if I enjoy multi-channel over stereo for listening pleasure.

Has anyone else gone this direction either to stick with or to go back to stereo?

 

 Many years ago I had an SQ Logic controlled system to go with SQ encoded LPs, but I eventually went back to Stereo due to the lack of realistic sounding material, plus a nearby lightning strike that vaporised the underground phone cable, fried the logic PCB. Neil Diamond's "Hot August Night"  sounded pretty good in 4 Channel though.

[Spacehound]

16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I will see your special ops option and raise you many kHz....

 

 

Our  military are all pretty ladies. So pretty they scare the hell out of ISIS.

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Many years ago I had an SQ Logic controlled system to go with SQ encoded LPs, but I eventually went back to Stereo due to the lack of realistic sounding material, plus a nearby lightning strike that vaporised the underground phone cable, fried the logic PCB. Neil Diamond's "Hot August Night sounded pretty good in 4 Channel though.

 

Yea, that is my concern...probably lack of good mulit-channel music....but my hope is that there are a few phenomenal pieces.  I have a multi-channel system for video, but maybe i will combine the two, and that way i can have both available for music and video.

[firedog]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Extremely high frequencies causing distortion in the audible band  ?

In the playback. Because the equipment can’t fully handle it. It’s a known problem. 

[Don Hills]

29 minutes ago, mansr said:

The portable D-50 has no such feature. That's the one I have measured.

 

I have a review of the D-50 where Martin Colloms measured the phase shift between channels to be 71 degrees at 20 kHz. I would have thought it would be approaching 180 degrees if there was a full 11.3 us delay between channels.

[sandyk]

25 minutes ago, firedog said:

In the playback. Because the equipment can’t fully handle it. It’s a known problem. 

 

Just like many earlier amplifiers couldn't handle SACD artifacts,(even burning out!)  so they dumbed down the upper frequency capability of SACD ? 

After that, I guess they no longer needed those nice Sony 100kHZ tweeters that were released for SACD.

[mansr]

21 minutes ago, Don Hills said:

I have a review of the D-50 where Martin Colloms measured the phase shift between channels to be 71 degrees at 20 kHz. I would have thought it would be approaching 180 degrees if there was a full 11.3 us delay between channels.

Martin Colloms isn't exactly trustworthy, but I'll check it again.

[beerandmusic]

19 hours ago, audiventory said:

 

Imroving of perceived sound by upsampling/resampling is matter of different audio system distortions at different resolutions.

 

Sometimes for improving of played back sound need to cut information. I mean ultrasound, that can cause audible distortions due intermodulations. The intermodulation products may be listened as noise. In this case cutting of ultrasound above 20 kHz can remove noise.

 

Some time ago I described step-by-step how to attempt to found the best audio resolution: https://samplerateconverter.com/content/how-improve-sound-quality

 

>>> DAC can be able provide lesser distortions for mode 192 kHz/24 bit/PCM than for 96 kHz/24 bit/PCM.
Therefore, conversion of audio file resolution to 192 kHz/24 bit/PCM is recommended for playback at the DAC.

 

I checked out your site briefly, and it is very interesting to me, but I see your English is not so well.  It may make sense to find a friend that can update your site with better English...just a thought...It may help you gain sales.

[Spacehound]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

Was it possibly impulse testing?  They do impulse testing of infants.  They can tell by the way the reflection is shaped if the hearing mechanism is functioning or not. 

With children it's called a smack, not an impulse.