FORGETTING the Digital to Analog conversion part, what is BEST Digital source?

[kumakuma]

12 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 The original link does not work due to forum upgrades, however I have a saved copy of her original post .

 

Here is a link to the thread if anyone wants to read in situ:

 

 

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Here is a link to the thread if anyone wants to read in situ:

 

 

 It still won't change what Cookie said in the copy I provided .

Perhaps you hope that replies from others who disputed her reports will negate her message ?

 Note also that Roch confirmed her reports about less degradation of her supplied files if sent as Uncompressed Zips.

 He nagged me for a couple of months to try the same, as I was sceptical. However, when  I eventually tried what he recommended , I obtained similar results.

[sandyk]

25 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

I wonder, though, as the claim was made quite a few years ago, if playback has improved since then. For example, some players decode FLAC on the fly, others decode it to WAV completely before playback, others place all in memory...

 

 Everything I play from my PC is played from System Memory using the simplistic CPlay, yet I am able to hear clear differences.

 IIRC, at one point in time you were going to do some research using people who also hear similar things to what I hear ?.

[kumakuma]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 It still won't change what Cookie said in the copy I provided .

Perhaps you hope that replies from others who disputed her reports will negate her message ?

 Note also that Roch confirmed her reports about less degradation of her supplied files if sent as Uncompressed Zips.

 He nagged me for a couple of months to try the same, as I was sceptical. However, when  I eventually tried what he recommended , I obtained similar results.

 

I simply provided the link so others could read the entire thread.

[barrows]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

Perhaps there is more than one way to skin a cat ?

Always that is true.  i am not familiar with any technical details of the Gryphon, any ideas where I might learn them?

[beerandmusic]

3 hours ago, bibo01 said:

Hi, please, do you have the link where Cookie Marenco supposedly said the above?

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

I have met Cookie, and was not all that impressed, and don't doubt for a minute she has said several things at one time or another that she would change her mind on....btw, and off-topic... last show i saw her at, she uses "consumer grade" player for her demos of her dsd stuff.

 

I have read many things, that many people have once stated as fact, only to later, realize their error.

 

Personally, the fact that Cookie said something means very little to me...especially if she would agree that two identical song files with the same checksum will sound differently with the same hardware... (unless someone specifically made an effort to create two files with same checksum that were different).  Clearly you can add meta data to change the checksum...whatever, this is all nonsense.

 

I don't even know how the subject got changed from the original comment, that "many people don't like upsampled dsd, that it sounds too smoothed".

 

[beerandmusic]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 I note also that Peter St's Phasure NOS DAC doesn't need to do a conversion to DSD, just upsampling to a much higher bit rate,

 and most of it's owners no longer feel the need for high res.

Perhaps there is more than one way to skin a cat ?

 

Maybe true, but also true:

 

• many people feel no need for anything higher than 44khz also..
• pcm res will never be the res of dsd...

 

 

[sandyk]

Hi Barrows

The attached should answer a few of your questions. Note that it also uses Ultracaps.

I have also heard Audiophile Neuroscience's previous DAC, the Bricasti M1, which when compared with my own DIY DAC by it's new owner (a Telstra Mobiles Engineer) was outperformed by my DIY DAC. We were using a similar comparison CD -R to that sent to Barry Diament with pairs of adjoining tracks having identical .md5 checksums. My friend found the differences a little easier to pick with my DAC. After the session I later discovered that he had been using Coax SPDIF for the M1, but HDMI to the TV and back again via Toslink for mine. We were playing the CD-R with an Oppo 103.

No, I didn't let on to him later about his connection stuff up. To be fair about the tests, I had let him do all the setting up and volume adjustments.

After this he decided to try different opamps in  the Bricasti M1,but biased into Class A.

Regards

Alex

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0814/gryphon_audio_designs_kalliope_dac.htm

 

[sandyk]

14 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I have met Cookie, and was not all that impressed, and don't doubt for a minute she has said several things at one time or another that she would change her mind on....btw, and another topic... last show i saw her at, she uses "consumer grade" player for her demos of her dsd stuff.

 

I have read many things, that many people have once stated as fact, only to later, realize their error.

 

Personally, the fact that Cookie said something means very little to me.

 

 

 Blue Coast Records is a highly respected supplier of DSD recordings that were engineered by Cookie !

So now you have become another GUTB who frowns on almost all "Consumer" grade equipment  ?

[barrows]

I read up on the Gryphon...  Not impressed.  It looks like a good implementation of an (outdated) ESS 9018 DAC, with a mediocre clock.  Nothing earth shattering here in terms of D/A.  The Mola Mola is totally ground breaking by comparison.

[beerandmusic]

12 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Blue Coast Records is a highly respected supplier of DSD recordings that were engineered by Cookie.!

So now you have become another GUTB who frowns on almost all "Consumer" grade equipment  ?

 

I know who Cookie and Blue Coast is...like i said, I met her and talked with her....she is just another person, not a prima dona, godsend, or any audio walking encyclopedia.  THere are a LOT of people on this site that have a lot more knowledge and understanding about a lot of audio subjects.  Even when I was talking with her she admitted she made some claims that weren't founded.

 

In regards to my comment about consumer grade, I don't think at all like GUTB..., just the opposite...everything i own I would consider "consumer".  I am just saying if you respect Cookie, know she uses equipment i would own.   She was using a "lowly" SONY HAPZ1ES at the time.

 

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, barrows said:

I read up on the Gryphon...  Not impressed.  It looks like a good implementation of an (outdated) ESS 9018 DAC, with a mediocre clock.  Nothing earth shattering here in terms of D/A.  The Mola Mola is totally ground breaking by comparison.

 

 A mediocre clock performs much better when  supplied by far better isolated power supplies, which Gryphon Kalliope  DAC appears to have in abundance.

 

An underwhelming review, where it needed a USB Regen to really shine !

 https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/117214-mola-mola-dac/

 

 

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

She was using a "lowly" SONY HAPZ1ES.

 And how many years ago was that ?

 Ever considered the possibility that a Record producer may wish to demonstrate their recordings on something like the majority of their customers are likely to be using ?

I note also that you seem to keep talking about sub $2K gear as references.

 You appear to be just a wee bit biased against high end gear  normally, except in cases like this . 

[beerandmusic]

7 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 And how many years ago was that ?

 Ever considered the possibility that a Record producer may wish to demonstrate their recordings on something like the majority of their customers are likely to be using ?

I note also that you seem to keep talking about sub $2K gear as references.

 You appear to be just a wee bit biased against high end gear  normally, except in cases like this . 

 

What do you mean except like this....this is still on par for what i would say.

 

A HAPZIES probably about $1200 on the used market, and never was "expensive" or "high end". I would say I am more like Cookie than many people, as I think she is a 'realist". 

 

I also doubt very much she used it because she wanted what most people used, and I am sure she used it because it sounded good to her. (it did to me as well).

 

The HAPZ1ES will be frowned on by many people because it is not "boutique" and "made in japan", but in all honesty, she was smart to use it instead of a pc or usb based dac.  There are a lot more options now, and I doubt she is still using it, but maybe.  It sounded great.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, beerandmusic said:

The HAPZ1ES will be frowned on by many people because it is not "boutique" and "made in japan", but in all honesty, she was smart to use it instead of a pc or usb based dac.  There are a lot more options now, and I doubt she is still using it, but maybe.  It sounded great.

 

Well, that isn't how you came across in your previous post !!!

Note also the comment in the review at the link that I posted, about the need for a USB Regen to lift the performance of the DAC that Barrows used for an example of the State of the Art.

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 A mediocre clock performs much better when  supplied by far better isolated power supplies, which Gryphon Kalliope  DAC appears to have in abundance.

 

An underwhelming review, where it needed a USB Regen to really shine !

 https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/117214-mola-mola-dac/

 

 

haha, that is not a review, it is a random forum post.  I have extensive experience with the DirectStream, and the Mola Mola is in an entirely different league.  If it did not sound good to this person, it was a set up issue.

 

Wait a minute, just read the entire post, here is the final take away:

 

"After a few days living with the Mola Mola Makua and DAC I don't want to give it back."

 

Sounds like an endorsement to me...

[sandyk]

12 minutes ago, barrows said:

haha, that is not a review, it is a random forum post.  I have extensive experience with the DirectStream, and the Mola Mola is in an entirely different league.  If it did not sound good to this person, it was a set up issue.

 

Sorry, but a DAC of that pedigree should not need a USB Regen to further lift it's USB performance.

 It should be impervious to typical USB vagaries.

 It apparently sounded VERY good indeed to the person making the report after the Regen was put in line.

[beerandmusic]

14 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Well, that isn't how you came across in your previous post !!!

Note also the comment in the review at the link that I posted, about the need for a USB Regen to lift the performance of the DAC that Barrows used for an example of the State of the Art.

 

I think any usb DAC that doesn't have modern usb isolation circuitry would improve with a "usb toy"...especially if using a noisy pc.

 

Inre cookie, you just misunderstood what i was saying....

 

I respect Cookie, I liked her, but she is not anything "extraordinaire", where I would quote something she said as "Gospel".... I don't put it past her to have said things that weren't accurate, and I believe that she would be the first to admit she has made some claims that were in error.  I did like the fact that she is a realist and didn't try to hide the fact that she would use a sony player....i think there are a LOT of phonies out there.

 

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I think any usb device that doesn't have a modern dac with good isolation circuitry would improve with a usb toy.

 

Inre cookie, you just misunderstood what i was saying....

I respect Cookie, I liked her, but she is not anything "super", but I don't put it past her to have said things that weren't accurate, and I believe that she would be the first to admit she has made some claims there were in error.  I did like the fact that she is a realist and didn't try to hide the fact that she would use a sony player.

 

 

 I think you are likely to find that the only thing that Cookie regrets saying is a comment about Digital File degradation with time. That was clearly not correct, unless perhaps, the files were saved on magnetic tape.

Her comments that I use in my Signature have been verified by quite a few other people including myself.

[barrows]

The DirectStream is not isolated either, not sure where they got that idea.  This is easy to check, BTW, people.  See if their is continuity from the USB input ground, to the analog output ground, there is on the DirectStream.  It is a shame that many DACs still do not incorporate a properly isolated USB input, it is not all that expensive to do, and the engineering is very well understood.

In any case, I would not need a ISOregen with Mola mola, I would just feed it from the Sonore Signature Rendu SE!  Servers are so old school...

[beerandmusic]

11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 I think you are likely to find that the only thing that Cookie regrets saying is a comment about Digital File degradation with time. That was clearly not correct.

Her comments that I use in my Signature have been verified by quite a few other people including myself.

 

Well if she does regret it, she shouldn't.  Everyone makes mistakes...it's what we learn from our mistakes that matters.

 

Inre her statement about file checksums...I never gave it much thought, and to be honest, i thought your tagline was a jab at her (since i have questioned other things she has said that she recanted).  I didn't realize you believed it as factual.  In all honesty, I am a 1's and 0's kind of guy, so I say if two files are identical (by way of digitally copying) they will sound the same on same hardware.  It is possible to create 2 different files in two different ways, and pad one file with meta data so that the checksums are the same..but that would not be the same thing as taking one file and copying it to a different location and suggesting it will sound different on the same hardware.

 

Regardless of ANY of that, who really cares...it's really a silly and unrelated argument imho, and has nothing to do with a statement such as "Many people don't like upsampling via HQplayer because it sounds smoothed"?  I don't even know why you changed the subject to a comment that Cookie made?

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, barrows said:

In any case, I would not need a ISOregen with Mola mola, I would just feed it from the Sonore Signature Rendu SE!  Servers are so old school...

 Hi Barrows

Yes, but you have a direct connection with Sonore , do you not ?

N.B.

 I am NOT saying that the Sonore products, which John Swenson has IIRC , had a hand in designing some of them, aren't

every bit as good as many claim.

 

Regards

Alex

[barrows]

10 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Hi Barrows

Yes, but you have a direct connection with Sonore , do you not ?

N.B.

 I am NOT saying that the Sonore products, which John Swenson has IIRC , had a hand in designing some of them, aren't

every bit as good as many claim.

 

Regards

Alex

It should be clear from my Signature, no?  I am co-designer and builder of the Signature Rendu SE (I do the "simple" design stuff, the power supply and layout, and consulted on the custom transformer we had made for the unit).  I do not think this is any secret or anything!

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

In all honesty, I am a 1's and 0's kind of guy, so I say if two files are identical (by way of digitally copying) they will sound the same on same hardware

 

That is not what the 6 separate POSITIVE  DBT comparison .wav file  comparisons that  I supplied to Martin Colloms from Hi Fi Critic magazine,and the comparison CD-R sent to Barry Diament revealed.

Peter St., Manisandher, John Kenny, Marcin Ostapowicz from jPlay , Dr.Charles Zellig (co-author of the reports in T.A.S 220 and 221) and several other C.A. members have also reported hearing the differences with my uploaded .wav files with identical .md5 checksums.

 

 I am out of here as you appear to have already made up your mind on the current subject about upsampling LPCM to DSD being the answer to a maiden's prayer !

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

 A mediocre clock performs much better when  supplied by far better isolated power supplies, which Gryphon Kalliope  DAC appears to have in abundance.

 

An underwhelming review, where it needed a USB Regen to really shine !

 https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/117214-mola-mola-dac/

 

 

 

A great read, even if it's just one (or a couple) person's subjective observations/experiences. As barrows mentioned, the comment by the OP about the DirectStream DAC's USB input being galvanically isolated is incorrect.

 

The Merlot DAC that's mentioned in that thread, is something special indeed (I've heard it directly driving my HD800S headphones).

 

I have a DirectStream DAC and Hugo2 and have heard the Chord Dave - all claim that inputs sound the same but many owners of those DACs have shared preferences of certain inputs over others.

 

The Merlot DAC was the first time I really heard all DAC inputs sounding the same, and just like the OP of that thread mentioned, the Regen didn't make an obvious difference to my ears, with that DAC. The Merlot's USB input is not isolated either. I'm just one data point of course, other may have difference exerperiences.

 

Apologies to the OP - I've gone off topic.