USB audio cracked... finally!

[Bystander]

7 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I largely agree with you.  What I've noticed though is that the rising tide does tend to lift all boats.  The better my system gets, the more enjoyable all my music has gotten - even the bad recordings.   

Really? I'd say for me it's the opposite. The better my equipment gets, the more evident any potential flaws in my recordings become. Great recordings sound better than ever, but problematic recordings also become easier to identify as such. That doesn't necessarily make them less enjoyable but neither do they benefit from being more faithfully reproduced from a certain point on. It's like getting sharper vision where it becomes easier to identify blurry pictures. Nothing will change the fact that they're already blurry, the only benefit of sharper vision is that you can suddenly tell they are.

[Bystander]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

The "magic" that occurs when a system is supremely competent is that the limitations of the reproduction don't also drag the perceived quality down, beyond redemption - the marvellous abilities of the ear/brain to discard what is unconsciously recognised as not relevant to the musical content comes into play, fully; and what is left is a complete and satisfying awareness of the musical message. 

Sounds fascinating.I just hear a bad recording (which can be enjoyable nonetheless, regardless of the playback chain). Probably need better cables to experience any of that. 

[Bystander]

I wonder if it would change people's perception of the cable at all if it was named Dull or Veil instead of Lush...

[Bystander]

31 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

the digitus flavor is removed (not as an explicit process because I wouldn't know how to do that). 

The what now?

 

31 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

This is not advertising 

Of course not. I'm assuming this beauty sells itself:

 

070cm : 200 euros.
100cm : 200 euros.
150cm : 225 euros.
200cm : 275 euros.
300cm : 400 euros.

 

EDIT:

 

To be fair, I expected it to be even more expensive.

[Bystander]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Only @PeterSt can offer the best answer to why the cable sounds the way it does.

 

And he doesn't appear to know, if I understand him correctly:

 

19 hours ago, PeterSt said:

...

the digitus flavor is removed (not as an explicit process because I wouldn't know how to do that).

...

back to the beginning of the Lush story "I don't know what I have done *now*, but ... ". 

...

[Bystander]

So everyone's being sarcastic? Things are starting to make sense now.

[Bystander]

31 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

After my previous post, I only now think of it :

Ask people how super straight a jazz guitar now sounds (with Lush, I mean). Thus, no vibrato intended.

But how "no vibrato" is actually that eh ?

This really is one of the virtues. bout.

Bet ?

One of the qualities of your cable is to remove vibrato from jazz guitars that would otherwise, using conventional cables, be there?

[Bystander]

2 hours ago, CuteStudio said:

 Cables sales appear to be the lifeblood of much of the HiFi industry as they are high margin and require no proof or measurements, so very cheap to develop and just require a poetic marketing scribe: but in my experience are a distraction and drain of funds for the domestic HiFi system  

I feel like if a cable really had such a drastic and specific effect where it would make a human listener notice the absence of a jazz guitar's vibrato as compared to other, apparently flawed, cables, that should actually be fairly easy to prove. How could this not be measurable? Why would you not want to measure that if you had the skill to come up with the cable in the first place?

[Bystander]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Vibrato would be too strong. Not stable frequency (including the harmonics) is what this is about. In the end this is the same as singing slightly off-key (which you will only know it is that once "repaired").

That should be a measurable effect, right? So, have you tried measuring it and, If not, why not? Unless this has been discussed already as well (I haven't and wont't read the entirety of the thread).

[Bystander]

1 minute ago, lasker98 said:

 

It's been discussed.

 

Unbelievable to me that you would have the nerve to even post that.

Why? Are we not allowed to ask critical questions unless we've participated here for 75 pages? Mind giving me a pointer to where that's been answered? So the measurements bear out the flowery descriptions of the effects the cable supposedly has on the sound?

[Bystander]

3 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

 Please just go away.

ok, bye! Have fun guys  

[Bystander]

6 minutes ago, elcorso said:

If you want measurements you are free to do it 

lol, not my job.

 

Like I said, have fun guys. Chris is probably right that $200-400 out of their pockets won't hurt most people here anyway... so who cares whether the cable "works" or not, even if it's just a placebo...

[Bystander]

2 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

This should be measurable by means of many test tones at the same time. Think intermodulation distortion measurement, but 10 fold or more.

In the very end I personally would not take the effort because usually the variance (like between cables) will be too low to show it in the noisy environment. This, while we can easily hear the difference.

 

Let's remember, the ONLY mechanism at play can be jitter. How and where this "travels" has been extensively dealt with (really in a 100+ posts). And no, you won't learn any of this on a university or high school.

Audio is a bit special. No magic, no voodoo either, but special. Learning in this field never seems to stop and it especially requires IT (computer) skills at the lowest level (where the bits play).

ok, thanks. I wish you all the best, I'm out of here for now!

[Bystander]

8 minutes ago, Summit said:

...

To think outside the box is IMO what’s separates a good inventor or genius from an EE

...

superior SQ and analogue sound may not be the top priorities for the EE and inventors that normally creates and sets the USB spec. ...

lol, I wasn't going to post anymore, but what's all the EE bashing about? 

 

I also liked how someone referred to "pro science folks" before. I'm not sure whether he was being facetious using that description,, but I'd have thought/hoped everyone would be pro science on this board. Apparently not?

[Bystander]

35 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think 99% of the people are pro science. It's just that many are also very open minded and willing to accept that in some areas under discussion here, science may not have all the answers. 

It never does.I don't have an issue with challenging science. That is science to me.But that includes challenging your own perception, which some seem reluctant to do. You can't will yourself out of being susceptible to placebos. Now maybe there's an effect beyond that. For all I know, with (USB) cables it's generally unlikely, but I wouldn't rule it out. Yet one simply can't be sure until the far more likely explanation has first been excluded. Almost all differences people report hearing between cables can be readily explained by the placebo effect. From what I've seen, people are not really attempting to rule that out here (although, as I've already admitted, I haven't read the whole thread).. And I don't understand why not. I'm sure one could discuss 100 pages long about the wondrous effects of homeopathy, discuss the best preparations, and wrack one's brain over how exactly and why it works. I'm sure it's being done somewhere on the internet. I think it makes more sense though to first ensure that it is different from placebo. I'm the first to believe someone that claims he hears a difference. But I know from myself and others that just because you think you hear a difference doesn't prove there's actually a difference to hear. People literally hear differences between identical cables. Maybe this forum  is just not for me... I don't want to step on anyone's toes. 

[Bystander]

Should one also use the Lush as a connection to external hard drives in order to improve the sound quality, similar to what Curious Cables suggest? 

 

http://www.curiouscables.com/our-story.html

 

 

 

Quote

What you’ll hear with the Curious usb: 

• Holographic sound stage with genuine depth and layering
• Clean, smooth and detailed sound
• Fleshed out, rounded vocals
• Deep, extended low frequencies with excellent definition
• Foot tapping involvement
• A step up in realism

 

 

Best results are attained when the cable is used: 
 

• Between an external hard drive and computer/music server, and/or…
• Between a computer/music server and DAC

[Bystander]

8 minutes ago, vrao said:

" Basically, measurements that are currently performing are nearly meaningless for a human auditory perception. " (just for completion and clarification) ... but measurements do provide the proper path for development.

 So maybe not "nearly meaningless" after all...

[Bystander]

1 hour ago, vrao said:

I have the audio room acoustically treated, and it has helped significantly propel system performance and listening experience.

 

Yes. Where a cable is almost always the least important factor in a system, acoustic treatment is actually among the most important ones. Which is a real shame, because it's easier, cheaper (even in the case of 'audiophile' cables) and probably more fun, with less (if anything) to go wrong  to replace a cable than to figure out, find room for, invest in and install proper room treatment, especially if you don't have a designated 'listening room' – in that respect, I certainly get the appeal of spending time worrying about cables instead. Worth a repeat:

 

On 8/25/2017 at 0:19 PM, CuteStudio said:

 The weakest links in most systems are generally in this order:

1) The listeners emotional state

2) Mastering damage (Mastered for iTunes, older pressings, specialist places like Linn records can help here)

3) Room design and layout

4) Speakers

5) Amplifiers

6) DACs 

 

[Bystander]

6 hours ago, PeterSt said:

... try to see that other cables (including our own) create the coloring.

Are you claiming every other (USB) cable does, in all circumstances? Is it only the expensive (how expensive?) ones that do not color the sound, or even only the latest one you are selling?

[Bystander]

I feel like something like this would actually sound better on a less revealing, less neutral (objectively worse and colored) system which would mask the distortions inherent in the recording somewhat.

 

WARNING: Might offend audiophile sensibilities... ! 

 

 

[Bystander]

19 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Disagree ... this is exactly the type of recording that can present superbly, subjectively - as an example of how far one can take this, Nellie Melba recordings from the dawn of recording can shape up remarkably well - the quaint, caricature quality of operatic female singing one normally hears is replaced by a living, breathing person ...

 

13 hours ago, mansr said:

I tried playing that on the built-in speakers in my desktop monitors (nice display, terrible speakers). It sounds as dreadful there as it does on my good system.

 

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

Which demonstrates that there are multiple ways of listening to the quality of the sound; mine is to listen for what the potential of the sound is, rather than how it happens to come across on a particular playback chain ... .

 

Curious, having never heard of Feinberg, I looked around, and found this, https://www.allmusic.com/album/js-bach-well-tempered-clavier-mw0001858981. This provides even more motivation, or should, to elevate a system to the point where the inadequacies of these recording no longer matter, subjectively - it is, after all, all about the music ...

I guess I could be wrong...  Thankfully the sound quality of some of his other recordings isn't quite as bad and even very enjoyable at times. I'll always value the quality of a particular performance over the sound quality of the recording, but when the recording contains  obvious defects such as in this one, it still tends to bother me.