Not really impressed with Metric Halo ULN2

[barrows]

I am in agreement Barry. with the possible exception of properly done "memory players" like the Nova Physiks unit and the PS Audio PerfectWave transport, which, actually play the disc back from solid state memory: this is really just a computer approach disguised as a traditional disc player.

 

[bdiament]

Hi barrows,

 

I agree. The Memory Player and the PS Audio Perfect Wave are not playing the disc (though perhaps the latter can, if one wanted to - I don't know). They are playing from memory, as you said, a "computer approach" that just happens to look like a CD player.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecoridngs.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[bmckenney]

I have a fully broken in Ayre now and it is fantastic! I really like it. Very natural sounding is the first thing that comes to mind. The second thing is, it's very musical and easy to listen to and perfectly balanced with gobs of resolution. This is what I was hoping for.

 

The ULN2 will be broken in for a good long time before I write it off though. I'm at about 30 hours now and it hasn't really improved much if at all. I hope it sounds better after 50 to 100 hours. I might even take it up to 200 hours.

 

Bryan

 

[Bob Stern]

I concur with barrows' advice: "I would recommend not plugging the ULN-2's switching power supply into the output of your Torus -- this is adding noise to the AC supply of your power amp (do not think for a minute that there is any "isolation" between different output plugs on the Torus).

Best way to go would be to plug the ULN-2 supply in to a dedicated line conditioner, to provide some isolation for the noise produced by its power supply."

 

If you don't have an AC filter you can cannot between AC line and the ULN-2 power supply, I think you should connect the ULN-2 directly to the AC line, not to the Torus output.

 

I certainly think using Firewire power for the ULN-2 is probably the worst approach. You're injecting the computer's power bus noise into the DAC. In fact, you might go one step further and snip off the power pin of the Firewire connector, or use a 4-pin Firewire adapter to accomplish the same thing, as discussed in another thread here.

 

[Bob Stern]

After setting the sample rate in Audio MIDI Setup to match the sample rate of the music you intend to play, quit and relaunch iTunes to prevent it from employing sample rate conversion.

 

(Changing the sample rate in "MIO Console" automatically sets Audio MIDI Setup identically, and vice versa, so use whichever of the two is more convenient. Either way, you must re-launch iTunes.)

 

[Bob Stern]

If dramatically greater purity with a slightly subdued treble sounds appealing, you must audition the Ayre if its 50% higher price is within your budget.

 

The Antelope Zodiac is only $1500, and Sweetwater sells it with a 30-day money-back guaranty. I haven't heard it, but Antelope has a great reputation for ultra-high-performance clocks.

 

In fact, if anyone here on CA has auditioned the Antelope Zodiac, your comments would be appreciated.

 

[cfmsp]

 

"You're injecting the computer's power bus noise into the DAC. In fact, you might go one step further and snip off the power pin of the Firewire connector, or use a 4-pin Firewire adapter to accomplish the same thing, as discussed in another thread here."

 

Agreed,

 

clay

 

PS, Kudos to the Ayre dealers, who seem quite hip to the break-in issue. This is the second post in 24 hours where a fully broken in Ayre QB-9 (which seem to require an interminable amount of time to break-in) have won out over other DACs. The other case was a Weiss DAC 2, as posted by Always Learning here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/One-Persons-Journey-Choosing-DAC

 

PPS, Bryan, if you stay with the Ayre, you should keep the demo!

 

 

[bmckenney]

Bob. I do have a 4 pin cable that came with the ULN2. And I do have a 4 to 6 pin adapter as well. In fact that is what I'm using. When I unplug the ULN2 power supply from the wall it is still drawing power from the FW cable because the ULN2 is still powered up. So that means it's getting power from the computer. I can't isolate it from the computer from an AC perspective.

 

I think the only chance the ULN2 has is break-in. The Ayre was said to be poor sounding by posters until it hit 50 to 100 hours and I should give the ULN2 the same time to break in. And some extended listening periods as well. I don't want to write it off prematurely.

 

Bryan

 

[Telstar]

PS, Kudos to the Ayre dealers, who seem quite hip to the break-in issue. This is the second post in 24 hours where a fully broken in Ayre QB-9 (which seem to require an interminable amount of time to break-in) have won out over other DACs

 

I noticed the same thing...

 

[bordin]

Hi Bryan,

 

> I would be willing to try playback software like Pure Vinyl.

 

The price of the ULN-2 includes many things that are not included in a typical playback DAC such as DSP capabilities, EQ, high-end mic preamplifiers, (zero-delay) audio routing capabilities, programmable presets, AES input, word clock input, ADAT expansion, etc.

 

The ULN-2 Expanded + DSP comes with built-in RIAA curve equalization, so you don't need Pure Vinyl at all.

 

ULN-2's mic preamps are one of the best in pro audio industry !

 

You may give it a try.

 

[icebreaker]

"The ULN2 is not that much more impressive than the Oppo and this is quite disappointing to me"

 

I had a similar experience comparing a relatively inexpensive Cambridge Audio 540C Cd player ($600?) and the Bryston BDA DAC ($2000) The Bryston DAC is said to have similar SQ as the MH ULN-2 by a number of posters here at Computer Audiophile.

 

The Cambridge sounded involving and when I switched to the Bryston the neutrality, transparency, and the relaxed low jitter presentation seemed washed out.

 

Conclusion? Under the right listening conditions distortion can sound exciting and far less distortion can sound boring.

 

But I know over the long term the Bryston BDA DAC would be far more satisfying in the right system.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

[icebreaker]

BTW is the Torus broken in? IIRC, you recently purchased it. Because they need 50 - 100 hours as well. Can't remember if you mentioned it. My system sounded horrible when I first plugged everything into mine. My dealer never lets a Torus out for a demo that isn't broken in.

 

In regards to the Torus isolating components or not which is a concern I had when I bought mine. I found the noise floor overall to be much lower with all my components plugged into the Torus than into my component isolating power line conditioner. The power supply itself is a noise filter. I realize that this does not eliminate the concern raised by previous posters but may compensate for it by an overall lower noise floor than those offered by power line conditioners. Granted there are a million or so other factors.

 

[Bob Stern]

bmckenney: "I do have a 4 pin cable that came with the ULN2. And I do have a 4 to 6 pin adapter as well. In fact that is what I'm using."

 

I think what you actually have is 6-pin Firewire 400 and 9-pin Firewire 800, not 4-pin and 6-pin. A 6-pin Firewire 400 cable is what comes with the ULN-2. A 4-pin cable has no power conductor, so it absolutely prevents the ULN-2 from obtaining power from the computer.

 

Photo of 4-pin Firewire 400 connector:

https://www.wiebetech.com/fonts/thumb.php?h=350&w=350&pic=/images/products/cables/DSCN2674.JPG

 

6-pin Firewire 400:

https://www.wiebetech.com/fonts/thumb.php?h=350&w=350&pic=/images/products/cables/DSC00294.JPG

 

9-pin Firewire 800:

https://www.wiebetech.com/fonts/thumb.php?h=350&w=350&pic=/images/products/cables/DSCN2713.JPG

 

See extensive discussion at:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Advice-FW-800-cable

 

[bdiament]

Hi James,

 

"The Bryston DAC is said to have similar SQ as the MH ULN-2 by a number of posters here at Computer Audiophile."

 

Personally, I hear very different sounds from the Bryston and ULN-2 and would not call them similar.

 

Just my perspective.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[kana813]

"I am curious if anyone has some suggestions of things I can try to up the performance of the music server and DAC configuration I'm using now."

 

Can you bypass the preamp section of your integrated amp and feed the UNL-2's analog ouput directly into the amp section and use the UNL-2 as a DAC/preamp?

 

I think Clay noticed an improvement with his UNL-2, when he deleted a tube preamp from the signal path to his First Watt J2.

 

I might be wrong, but I don't think Barry has any preamp between his UNL-8 and Outlaw Audio 200 Monoblocks.

 

[labjr]

. . . evidently doesn't work well from the USB input. I the read review in Stereophile. Basically, the reviewer used the BelCanto USB Link to get good sound out of it.

 

[cfmsp]

"I think Clay noticed an improvement with his ULN-2, when he deleted a tube preamp from the signal path to his First Watt J2."

 

Yes I did, a significant improvement, BUT, I also switched to the balanced inputs of the J2.

 

Big ups putting ASI Livelines in between the ULN-2 and the J2, too. I even noticed an improvement when tweaking adapters (from TRS to XLR) - so much so that I'm ordering custom Livelines from Franck.

 

And, as has been noted, feeding the ULN-2 with a linear PS (or rather, not feeding as much crap back into the AC circuit) offers a worthwhile improvement as well.

 

And even BJ Buchalter said that 'floating the Firewire power' could improve the sound. I couldn't get the right cable to float it with the Mini, so when I did float it I was using a different computer, and never bothered to go back and test against the non-floating cable.

 

Computer audio tuning is for masochists.

 

Bryan says:

"I think the only chance the ULN2 has is break-in."

 

The broken-in Ayre is probably just flat out better than the ULN-2 - after all it was the Stereophile Product of the year, even if TAS pretends that it doesn't exist.

 

 

OTOH, the tweaks above would push the ULN-2 closer. The linear power supply will cost you some money though. Shame you missed out on the B&H discount.

 

I could loan you the linear PS, if you want.

 

clay

 

side note (re the Bryston comments above):

Alan Taffel uses the Bryston as his reference DAC - which brings up a chicken vs. egg question - which came first - his dismissal of all things USB, or selection of a reference DAC with a widely acknowledged less-than-worthy USB input?

 

 

 

 

[kana813]

"Big ups putting ASI Livelines in between the ULN-2 and the J2, too."

 

Clay-

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, don't the ASI Livelines cost more than the ULN-2?

 

Aloha,

 

Dan

 

[bordin]

I like icebreaker's comment:

 

"But I know over the long term the Bryston BDA DAC would be far more satisfying in the right system."

 

Finding a right system may be easier than building a system right. The latter would be challenging and take some time.

 

[cfmsp]

 

"Please correct me if I'm wrong, don't the ASI Livelines cost more than the ULN-2?"

 

Close but not quite. And to be clear, I wasn't recommending this as a 'tweak' for the ULN-2, just giving the cable 'props' as one of my significant tweaks/upgrades.

 

A pair of RCA ICs retail for ~ $1000, balanced are ~ $1500 (which is exactly what I paid for my ULN-2). Retail on the ULN-2, however is $1695.

 

 

Liveline speaker cables retailed for $1700 (for a 2.4m pair) , but went up a few days ago, jumping up to $2100. Cool feature - they have interchangeable connectors - spades or pins.

 

This is my first foray into megabuck cables - I blame Ted, with an assist from Geoff (silverlight). It was these or Nordost, to replace my Analysis Plus set.

 

clay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bmckenney]

Bordin, this is definitely a case of finding the right DAC for my system that is already built. At least I don't have to build the right system for a given DAC. That would be more daunting.

 

The approach I took was building a system backwards. Getting well matched and suitable speakers for the listening room was first on the list. Then getting the speakers integrated in to the room properly (which took months to do). Then I found the right amp for the speakers which was an exercise in sonic synergy more than anything and took three attempts. Then came room treatment and AC power improvements. Now it's a matter of finding the right DAC source for the system. I'm finding this isn't so easy either. It is definitely nice to be in a position where a resolving system already exists because not much is masked so it's pretty easy to hear how good or not so good a DAC is. But it also means that getting the right synergy is challenging. A little something here or there that isn't quite right is pretty obvious. I'd love to have about 4 or 5 DACs for audition over the next few weeks.

 

Bryan

 

[bordin]

Hi Bryan,

 

Your "journey" would be entertaining in the next few months until you find a "right" DAC of your choice. IHMO, I'm not sure whether your integrated speakers would be flexible enough for acoustic adjustment because they are fixed. Having an ability to move things around would allow minor physical adjustment which could have a large impact on certain frequency ranges and sonic characteristics. A DAC or a system with DSP capabilities might allow some compensation for fixed installation.

 

Without being in the same room, I can't image how the sounds are. You may have already performed acoustical measurements of your room. This diagnostic tool would be very helpful for your decision making.

 

I'm lucky that I want to have glass windows in my listening room so that the setup isn't a daunting task because it must be very relaxed. My primary concern is only tonal balance and extensions in which the ULN-2 brings me a little heaven to my house. ;-)

 

BTW, music genres of your preference may have some influence on your DAC selection. It may be very hard to find one DAC that fits very well for all kinds of music.

 

 

[bmckenney]

Bordin, I think acoustics are in pretty decent shape right now. Bass trapping has cleaned up frequency response a lot. And reflection point absorption isn't that necessary because of the way the speakers radiate, but it would no doubt help. I would rather address acoustics with room treatment because it seems to be a more natural and truthful way. I don't know that I'd like using software for that. If Pure Vinyl is anything like software based acoustic processing, I'm just not sure I would like it. The more I listen to PV the more I think it's artificially playing with the signal in a way that bugs me. And speaking of musical preferences, I had a buddy over yesterday to lend an ear in listening to the ULN2 and Ayre and we played with PV too. On some music we liked it, and on some we didn't. But we did prefer the Ayre over the ULN2 on all types of music. However, I'm not sure if I really love the Ayre. It is an interesting DAC to my ears. It is natural sounding. It has lots of detail. It brings out the detail with finesse and subtlety. What's not to like? Well, it is maybe just a tiny bit to delicate and might not work for all kinds of music in my system. I think I might try and get a hiface USB adapter and try out the Bryston next.

 

Bryan

 

 

 

 

[bordin]

Bryan, don't forget to try TC Konnect 8 or 24 with the Bryston too. You may find your "answer". :-)

 

[bmckenney]

Bordin, my goal is to have less things in the signal path and avoid unnecessary components and functionality if possible. If I demo the Bryston, I just want a USB converter.

 

Bryan