Sonore Signature Rendu SE Deluxe

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2 hours ago, Mercman said:

I have a few questions for Jesus and or Barrows

Steve, if you have technical questions regarding features or differences of the Signature Rendu optical vs. the previous model, please feel free to contact me via PM.

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Review up of the Signature Rendu SE, system Optique:

 

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-sonore-signature-rendu-se-systemoptique/

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Hi Mike, my experience with vibration control devices suggests that they do make many components sound different, but sometimes it can be hard to determine if "different" is actually better for all recordings.  Also, different types of components seem to respond differently to different devices.  One isolation product I am looking forward to trying at some point is the "Orea" footers from ISOacoustics-these are also (relatively) reasonably priced.

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20 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

smoother but loosing a little bass clarity

The above quote is your key.  That description sounds to me like you are experiencing the sonic effects of higher jitter from the SPDIF connection.  This should not be surprising, as the SPDIF interface design is flawed in comparison with asynchronous USB, as the DAC must track the SPDIF clock (which is further degraded by being embedded in the single wire SPDIF signal), typically using a PLL circuit.  With async USB, the DAC clock is the master (as it should be for best performance) and this approach has the potential to have the least jitter when well implemented

Additionally, in Sonore Rendu products, there is a lot of attention paid to get the USB output as "perfect" as is possible-my first recommendation to customers using the Sonore Signature Rendu SE (optical or wired) is to use the USB output direct into the DAC, with the best USB cable one can get their hands on, before experimenting with any add-ons or converters.

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1 hour ago, yyz said:

Is it possible to do MQA unfolding using the Signature Rendu SE? 

 

I am considering a Denafrips Terminator (DT) DAC and it does not do MQA so I was told to look for a streamer that can unfold MQA and then feed it into the DT.

The Rendu products do not do MQA, but it easy to do the first "unfold" of MQA by one's choice of playback software.  For example both Roon and Audirvana can do the first unfold of MQA encoded files, and both of these softwares are entirely compatible with the Rendu Series products (and are recommended softwares).

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18 minutes ago, yyz said:

I do use ROON. Would I be getting the full sonic benefit (if any) of MQA by using ROON MQA unfolding as opposed to a MQA capable DAC such as a MyTek? I ask because I am going to buy a new DAC (and system) and figured MQA is something I should consider since I use TIDAL. 

The MQA folks only allow what is called a "partial unfold" in software, and the "full unfold" can only happen if your DAC is MQA capable in its hardware.  In reality what this means is this:

 

1. The MQA process starts with a 24/96 source file.

 

2.  The so called "partial unfold" actually is a full unfold, as it results in a 24/96 file for playback.

 

3.  The so called "full unfold" (only available in a MQA capable DAC) results in a 24/192 file-but this is just an upsampling step using the MQA filter.  So depending on how you view upsampling, and the MQA filter itself, it may be of no sonic advantage, or it may even be detriment.  So, full unfold really means upsampling to 24/192 using the MQA specific filter: there is nothing about this upsampling step that makes it inherently better than the upsampling already incorporated in many DACs, and one has many choices for how and where they might apply an upsampling step.  MQA is just one, specific, type of upsampling: in practice it is just one possible choice, and not some kind of magical sonic enhancer. 

 

So the partial unfold available in software gets you everything that was in the original file.

 

Personally, I have no love for MQA and believe it is a "solution" searching for a "problem".  Suffice it to say, that MQA holds no advantage for me, as I do not even like the sound of highly leaky, very slow rolloff filters as used in the MQA oversampling step.  But this is subjective, of course, some people might like it... but it is not anything special or magical, and very similar upsampling can be accomplished without all the expense and proprietary nature of incorporating MQA (in a DAC...)

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New review up on the Signature Rendu SEoptical and opticalModule here:

 

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-sonore-systemoptique-signature-rendu-se/

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On 6/28/2019 at 8:23 AM, yyz said:

I am doing that now with the old microRendu. All paths are leading me to upgrade this to the SystemOptique with a Signiture Rendu SE. I have to figure out which DAC to get from likely one of the following:

 

- Denafrips Terminator 

- Mola Mola Tambaqui (a Sonore Signiture Rendu MAYBE not needed)

- Lumin X1  or T2 (in which case a Sonore Signiture Rendu IS not needed)

 

Thanks for the info you guys have posted, it has helped a lot.

Hey, at those price points for DACs you might want to consider the Bricasti M21 as well.  I have one of these here right now (this is on loan from Bricasti for the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest) and it is an exceptional DAC.  I am also very impressed by the build quality.  Pictures do not do this DAC justice, and the casework is very high quality machined from large slabs of aluminum and impeccably finished.  Of course the sound is what matters most, and it is very impressive.  This DAC features both a R2R ladder DAC for PCM, and a p[roprietary 1 bit conversion path for DSD (and a Delta Sigma chip from AD if you prefer), as well as complete dual mono construction, with sophisticated power supplies, powerful output stage, and high quality analog volume control.

We will be running this DAC at RMAF, with the Signature Rendu SEoptical feeding it via USB, and the Bricasti M25 stereo power amp.

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Wow, another new review of the Signature Rendu SEoptical from the good folks at Positive Feedback.  

 

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/sonore-signature-rendu-se-system-optique/

 

I love this quote:

 

"...the Signature Rendu SE takes the entire optical streaming experience and hot-rods it to a level that's an audiophile's dream."

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19 minutes ago, cat6man said:

I found something 'odd' (at least to me) in this review that I have not seen previously (quoted below).

Can you comment/explain please?

I would suggest that indeed this is weird.  I have not found this to be the case, and the official word from Sonore is that optical fiber cable length does not matter for sound quality (at least up to a kilometer!).

Although I would always recommend that folks run the optical cable for the longest run, as it is immune to interferences and signal degradation over much longer distances than copper based Ethernet.

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Just to be clear, I would suggest using a optical cable for the longest cable in one's set up, as optical has lower losses than electrical, and also cannot pick up any noise along the way.

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41 minutes ago, fpalm69 said:

To shutdown the Signature Rendu SE optical and not corrupt the operating system it takes 7 steps:

 

Open Chrome browser

Navigate to MySonicorbiter

Select Manage

Select System

Select Power Down

Confirm Power Down....10 second countdown

Then turn off the power switch on the rear of the cabinet

 

Does anyone do it differently?

 

Would prefer something simpler like my Nucleus - press power button = soft shutdown, press hold = hard shutdown

 

 

I have never done that.  I just shut it down via the power switch, and never have any problems...

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37 minutes ago, robi20064 said:

Jesus/Barrows,

 

Is there still an upgrade path for the original Signature Rendu owners to the SE? If so, what are the current prices for Tier 1/2?

 

Do you mean form the Signature Rendu SE to the Signature Rendu SEoptical?

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23 minutes ago, robi20064 said:

Yes, sorry for not being precise. 

Yes, certainly Sonore offers the upgrade program for anyone owning a Signature Rendu SE wanting to upgrade to the optical version.  Please contact Sonore's Sales Director Adrian at:

 

[email protected]

 

For all the details.

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9 minutes ago, mf22433 said:

Are there any pictures somewhere available showing the inside of the Signature Rendu SE Optical?

It is not common practice for Sonore fo publish photos of the internals of our products.  Otherwise, I am happy to answer any questions which you might have, as long as they do not require revealing proprietary information.

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If looking from the back of the chassis down into it, the power supply board is to the front of the chassis on the left side, tot he back of the chassis is the main board with the processor module.  In the middle of the chassis is shield of a specially chosen alloy, this shield divides the chassis down the middle and shields the high voltage input and transformer from the main board and power supply.  On the right side of the chassis, at the back panel one would see the IEC jack, with the input filtering, and a stout ground wire to the chassis, then the star quad wiring (for US voltage units) going to the custom, IEC style, Mercury (US made) transformer, which is at the right front of the chassis (as far from the main board as possible).  Also on the right side of the chassis attached to the front panel is the small LED board for the indicator LED.

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4 minutes ago, mwhitak said:

Because ones and zeros need the mass of granite to sound better

It is actually not that simple.  Clock phase noise is sensitive to vibrations, and it has be shown that performance of the Signature Rendu improves as clock phase noise is lowered.  It is indeed possible that improvements to vibration damping will improve the performance.  The Signature Rendu uses a well built heavy gauge aluminum and steel case, with carefully designed footers with sorbothane damping inserts to reduce the influence of external vibrations not he circuitry.  at this level of performance, many seemingly small details do matter to the ultimate sound quality.

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2 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Hi, Barrows.  Does Sonore have specific recommendations for aftermarket vibration control?  I have mine on isoacoustics bronze footers, but I never have really heard significant changes in the SQ, let alone improvements.  If there is a better approach, I am open to ideas.

 

I find ISOacoustics Orea Graphite to suit the Signature very well.  The graphite is in the correct weight range.  How substantial the improvement may be is always going to be system dependent in regards to rack, shelf, speaker proximity, floor type, etc...  So vibration control is always going to be a bit experimental for every different system.  Also note that the stock feet on the Signature are already quite good, so getting big improvements is unlikely.  

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3 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Hi, Jesus.  Is the carbon fiber top an esthetic thing or is there a sonic improvement expected from it? 

Not Jesus, but: Carbon Fiber has a couple of qualities which may be able to actually improve performance:

 

1. It naturally damps high frequency energy, like RFI.  So called "stealth" technology, this is one of the ways it helps the Stealth Fighter aircraft evade Radar detection, as the material absorbs and damps some RF energy.  In theory, this means that RF noise inside the Signature could be reduced by a carbon fiber top panel.

 

2. Carbon fiber also is a much damper material than aluminum plate when it comes to vibrational modes.  So by having a carbon fiber top panel, the resonance of the chassis is reduced-this may also improve performance.

 

The results of the above qualities may, or may not be of a magnitude to result in actual audible improvements, but it is a possibility.  I have been surprised that more companies have not taken advantage of carbon fiber's properties in chassis construction, and I suspect we will see more of it in the future design of audio components.  It is more expensive to produce chassis parts/chassis with CF than with common aluminum panel construction, with the exception of those chassis machined out of a single block of aluminum (such as Ayre Reference Series components).

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37 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Thanks, Barrows. I will email Jesus for upgrade information. In my experience with automotive applications, carbon fiber can be crazy expensive even for small pieces, but the top of a Sig SE cabinet isn't huge. 

I think Jesus was just looking for some feedback on the idea, we are certainly not prepared to offer the carbon fiber top panel yet.

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16 minutes ago, lsantista said:

Hi, are there plans to include I2S out on future design revisions?

Personally, I2S is a rather weak format, and well implemented USB is superior, especially with the quality of the USB output from the Signature.  We do offer the ultraDigital as a solution for those who must have I2S or SPDIF capability, and it works very, very well in concert with the Signature Rendu SEoptical.  See here:

 

http://www.sonore.us/ultraDigital.html

 

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1 hour ago, lsantista said:

Sorry if I dont get your question straight, but I send USB to the Spring 3 KTE. Last week my UDigital arrived (got it used) and I installed it for a week but as mentioned found it non superior to the USB. I mostly use use qobuz with hqplayer via roon. So, 768 with USB and used 384 with i2S. Again, I didnt do any real testing with matched rates etc, but may do later. In general my ears can't really detect any change of sampling rates but so far I seen to prefer using HQplayer than straight qobuz or roon.

I am not surprised: given the quality of the USB output of the Signature, and the USB input on the Spring 3 KTE, I would expect USB to provide the best performance possible (given a quality USB cable as well, it matters at this level) and there would be no reason to mess with the added complexity and jitter of I2S connections.

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44 minutes ago, pietka08 said:

Hello, I'm from Poland. I'm thinking about changing Auralic Aries Femto to Sonore Signature Rendu SE. I have a question, is it possible to test SonoreS SE before making a purchase decision? Where in the EU can I get it. Sorry for my English.

Please contact Sonore's VP directly with your questions at this e-mail address:

 

[email protected]

 

Thanks for your interest in The Signature Rendu SEoptical!

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1 hour ago, lsantista said:

Hi, can the Sig Rendu voltage easily be changed by the user? 

No, the Signature Rendu is hard wired for either 115 VAC or 230 VAC (except for Japan units).  The unit must be returned to Sonore for AC input voltage conversion.

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On 10/17/2023 at 12:43 PM, CL65 said:

I am using the supplied Synergistic Research Purple fuse.  Anyone here try the newer SR Master fuse with their Signature Rendu SE?  If so which fuse was preferred?  Thanks for any details!

We here at Sonore have not tried the new Master Fuse, given the expense, it is hard to consider it!  But if anyone does try on, please report your results here, as we love to know how much better this new fuse might be.