Proper Grounding a system

[Jud]

18 hours ago, marce said:

Another problem is how is the noise differentiated from signal? Once noise gets into the signal it can not be differentiated from the signal apart from some sort of frequency filtering, if the noise is at the same frequencies as the signal in cannot be removed without effecting the signal, so the first rule of EMC is STOP the noise getting in (and out).

 

@marce, are there ways noise in the MHz frequency range might adversely affect audio that you know of?

[Jud]

15 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

Please don't feed the trolls.

 

Yashn's thread is a more welcome place for Objectionist concerns and mocking.

 

 

It was a perfectly serious question, to which pkane gave an answer that told me something I didn't already know (which is why I asked, and why, in general, I'm here - to learn).  I look forward to additional information that I hopefully can understand from anyone who cares to provide it.

[Jud]

7 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

MHz noise will have very little effect on analog components, as these usually operate under 100Khz and often under 20Khz.

 

Would you think there's any possibility of causing noise due to intermodulation, or very likely too low in amplitude if detectable at all given the difference in frequency?

[Jud]

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

Yes! To a high frequency interference signal there are sneak paths for it to enter the circuit. Once inside it can change the bias on an analog stage. Best example might be a cell-phone operating in the GHz range, sending info packets 217 times a second.

 

Thanks!  Another possibility I hadn't thought of.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, michaelD said:

WOW - we have gone off course big time here.  My original post did not ask about theory of operation it was just  a way for others to express their results with grounding boxes.  In particular Entreq boxes and soon the new Nordost QKore that was just introduced at the Munich show.  Some may even have the Telos boxes that would be interesting also.  Somehow we got way off tangent with this subject.  I you have no experience with these or other grounding boxes please save your comments as they are not being helpful.  If you do by all means lets hear how you got started and why you continue to use them.  

 

Personally I've been listening to my demo more enhanced Entreq setup and I really like what it does.  The note attacks are much crisper, particularity noticeable in the bass and the overall the music is more engaging and real. The other aspect is the darkness of the background.  I already had that with my initial setup with the Silver Tellus connected to the QB8 ground lug and at least for me adding the demo boxes did not enhance that but it really wasy excellant already.

Admittedly there is time needed about a day needed initially and once you disconnect it takes some time for the effect to diminish.  So a good AB is not all that possible and my memory is not as good as it used to be.  However what I'm told about the QKore is that it is immediate on and off so a much better idea of how it effects the overall sound will be much more noticeable.  I have all the models coming so hopefully late next week or over Memorial day weekend I will be having some fun testing.     

 

My apologies.  I was curious whether any grounding setups that might have some action with regard to MHz-frequency noise could have some effect in the audible range, and it appears from the responses that they could.

 

But you would like responses from people who actually own these, and I don't, so again, my apologies.

[Jud]

3 hours ago, Speedskater said:

So posts that do not validate or vindicate your opinion or purchase are not permitted?

Theory of operation is a big part of any product.

 

It's not that he doesn't want conversation that doesn't disagree with his experience, it's that he'd like to chat with folks who've tried or listened to a system with one of these products.  That's the level of friendly conversation he'd like to have.  Nothing wrong with that.

 

If we're interested in having a thread about theory and practice informed by that theory, we can - it's a big forum!

[Jud]

56 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Best to title a thread appropriately -- the title is provocative -- "Proper grounding " means we agree?? 

 

So do you want to start a thread called "*Really* Properly Grounding A System"?

[Jud]

14 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

So posts that validate or vindicate his opinion or purchase are encouraged?

 

What if someone has personal experience with one of these boxes and felt it did nothing for him?  Presumably that would be right on point.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Amir did just that.

http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/entreq-signal-grounding-preliminary-measurements.476/

 

I didn't see a friendly chat about personal listening experience, positive or negative, there.

 

When the OP has indicated so clearly what he desires in the thread - and even if he wants only affirming views, for that matter - it seems to me quite impolite to insist on having a different discussion *in this thread*.

 

If I'm serving as a foil for you to keep taking this off topic, then perhaps saying this is my last post in the thread will help.  I'll be happy to engage in such a discussion in another thread where it's on topic.

[Jud]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 11:27 AM, Johnseye said:

I'm surprised that no one has compared or commented on the Synergistic Research grounding products.  From what I've read it looks like this might just be an alternate connection from devices to the main house ground.

 

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/accessories/ground-isolation/

 

Has anyone demo'd these products?  I had them demo with and without at Axpona but that's in a loud environment.  A lot of people ooo'd and ahhh'd saying they could hear the difference, but I couldn't tell.

 

Ah yes, Schumann resonances.

[Jud]

3 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Those Schumann resonances are nothing more than thunderstorms around the world. I have never noticed anything when an approaching thunderstorm is still several hours away, so I don't know why people think it's a good thing. But I do know that the battery powered toy generators don't do anything. An effective generator would need many hundred watts.

 

Don’t you know that filtering and tuning ground noise to the characteristic resonance frequencies of lightning energy as it bounces around the giant waveguide between Earth and the ionosphere makes system grounding ever so much more effective?

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, marce said:

with benefits that are unbelievable...

 

That could be taken in two ways - and I’m sure has been.

[Jud]

28 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Guilty as charged.   

[Jud]

41 minutes ago, audio.bill said:

I have to say it again, but I honestly don't understand how some can continue to condemn a product that they've never tried or heard for themselves. I was as skeptical as anyone about the Nordost QKORE system until I heard it, but once I did I became a believer. No it wasn't a double blind test under laboratory conditions, just listened to familiar music on a system that I know well and the changes were obvious and repeatable. Listening to music is an emotional journey which is subjective by nature, and over the years I've found many components which may not objectively measure better to sound better. We may not have the ability to measure to levels which our ears can discern, or more likely we may sometimes be measuring the wrong things. I listen subjectively and critically but I let my heart be my guide, and I'm an electrical engineer. To each their own...

 

Note I personally only commented on the Synergistic Research stuff. This is the second time I’ve seen an “explanation” from them regarding how a product is supposed to work that has big scientific words but doesn’t hang together if you know what the words mean.

 

The first time it happened (cables were the product) I mentioned it in a comment on Audiostream, and within a few days Synergistic had changed their website copy (in a rather cagey way) regarding what I pointed out.

[Jud]

48 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

While condemn is a very strong word, any provider that makes unsupported claims about a product that go against engineering and scientific knowledge will gather negative comments. Why would anyone waste their time and/or money on them?

 

I personally wouldn't.  However: I do know people who swear by some of their products, and someone once suggested to me that perhaps they do the "crazy talk" to prevent any potential competitors from learning how their products actually work.  So people have their opinions and beliefs, and while I can try to be helpful and give them what I believe is useful information, changing what they think isn't my job or necessarily my goal.  Again, I agree with you that I personally don't wish to waste my time with people who can't provide a believable explanation of how their product will work for me.

[Jud]

I think the problem could possibly be resolved if the thread were renamed “Listening Impressions of Grounding Boxes and Similar Devices.”  Meanwhile, the OP has been fairly clear we should treat the thread as if it had been so named.