A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

Better be safe than sorry, that Mini PCI Express slot on X10SBA should be connected via one of those USB 2.0 lines according to the block diagram

 

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/J1900/MNL-1553.pdf#page=17

 

In other words, USB stuff like WWAN cards should be fine but we better check with Supermicro in order to confirm whether stuff like tX-USBexp is supported or otherwise. It's kinda "difficult" (if not impossible?) to convert USB 2.0 back to PCI Express and once again back to USB 3.0 afterwards.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/latitude-e6520-boot-from-expresscard-or-sd-slots.575453/page-3#post-8437653

Quote

so there appears to be quite a menagerie of miniPCIe slots

 

* slots with USB only - often used for WWAN or maybe bluetooth

* slots with PCIe and USB - used for WiFi and some very rare SSDs which have PCIe interfaces

* slots with SATA - for small form factor SSDs

 

SSD for Mini PCIe slots (WWAN not mSATA)

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ssd-for-mini-pcie-slots-wwan-not-msata.804492/

[seeteeyou]

As I mentioned before, there are simply not enough PCI Express slots available on X10SBA-L to accommodate more than 1 PCI Express card. (i.e. we've got only one slot and that's it.)

 

To prevent adding jitter as a result of optical isolation provided by Adnaco-S1B, we'll have to go for Startech PEX2PCIE4L in order to "convert" 1 PCI Express slot into 2

 

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Slot-Extension/PCI-Express-to-2-PCI-Full-Length-2-PCIe-Single-lane-Expansion-Box~PEX2PCIE4L

 

$360 here

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005YI6DWW

 

That might or might not work, though it's still worth a try since we're actually moving both SOtM and JCAT cards further away from a (somewhat) noisy motherboard.

[seeteeyou]

This LT3045 board is up to 1A

 

http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/lt3045-a.htm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-A-Ultralow-noise-0-8-Vrms-LDO-linear-regulator-0V-15V-1A-Fixed-out/253378132579

 

This one is up to 3A

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-2.html#post5227003

[seeteeyou]

Liquid Gold seemed to have Schurter DD12 but they're just listing some part numbers on page 6

 

https://www.schurter.com/bundles/snceschurter/epim/_ProdPool_/newDS/en/typ_DD12.pdf#page=6

 

I didn't find much here as well

 

https://ch.schurter.com/en/datasheet/DD12

 

Maybe take a look at Fuse drawer and Fuseholders?

 

https://www.schurter.com/en/FAQ

 

Nothing on the official site, too

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20160212131054/http://cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=morestuff&stuffId=12

https://web.archive.org/web/20160212123011/http://cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=morestuff&stuffId=5

https://avensonaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Liquid-Gold-Manual-1.06.pdf

[seeteeyou]

On 2/4/2018 at 5:54 AM, vortecjr said:

You can still hit the wall even if it's moving:)

 

Interesting tidbit?

 

https://www.musicpd.org/commercial.html

Quote

(MQA allegedly via ALSA plugin and pipe to MQA daemon process, circumventing the GPL)

 

http://www.sonore.us/Sonicorbiter-25.html

Quote

7. Based on Sonicorbiter 2.5 released on 4/20/2017, closed source and open source (GPLv2)

 

https://www.pr.com/press-release/741071

Quote

This upgrade will add MQA unfolding to the Roon Ready output mode, MPD/DLNA output mode, and the SqueezeLite output mode.

 

https://darko.audio/2018/01/mqa-support-comes-to-sonore-streamers/

Quote

In collaboration with Small Green Computer, a forthcoming firmware to the Signature Rendu SE, ultraRendu and microRendu will add MQA ‘core decode’ functionality to their Roon, MPD/DLNA and Squeezelite output modes1.

 

We'll see how this open source stuff would unfold (pun intended) in the near future. The developer(s) of MPD might or might not request the GPL source code once that MQA ‘core decode’ functionality is available.

 

If the GPL were indeed circumvented while nothing would happen, most likely other manufacturers could also follow the lead so that MQA "first unfold" should be no biggie.

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Did anyone have an idea if Chord Dave DAC have also a fuse?

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-548#post-13410661

 

As mentioned above, no fuses inside Chord Dave but those of us who live in Hong Kong and UK etc. could still replace the fuse inside any "Type G" (or BS 1363) plugs

 

http://www.bs1363.org.uk

 

Synergistic Research Quantum BLUE UK Plug Fuse

https://mcru.co.uk/product/synergistic-research-quantum-blue-uk-plug-fuse/

 

MCRU Furutech Ultimate Mains Lead Up-Grade Kit

https://mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-furutech-ultimate-mains-lead-grade-kit/

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's an interesting DAC option that might be able to take advantage of sCLK-EX without any modifications

 

http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/chord-qutest-has-landed.211981/#post-3315531

Quote

I have a couple of DIY dacs including Soekris 1121 and a new dac built around the Twisted Pear Buffalo 9038Pro module. The Qutest outperforms the Soekris (as did the Hugo2, not surprisingly) a little - more insightful, details more accurately revealed - but not by a big margin and the dutch ladder dac sounds nice and musical. I could listen to either all day. The Sabre9038 dac on the other hand is a clear step above the Qutest - greater microdynamic differentation, better sense of space, broader palette of tonal colours, details even more openly revealed. And all this with redbook source files played from a simple linux installation over a 3 quid usb cable. 

 

Lots of discussions here

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/313476-introducing-buffalo-iii-se-pro-9028-9038-a.html

 

Building a Buffalo IIIse/Sonore USB/Tube Output DAC

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/22352-building-a-buffalo-iiisesonore-usbtube-output-dac/

 

Beginner Build of Buffalo III DAC

 

http://diyah.boards.net/thread/839/beginner-build-buffalo-iii-dac

 

First Build - Buffalo III DAC - Are these components everything I will need?

 

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/forum/posts/t3970-First-Build---Buffalo-III-DAC

 

TP Audio Buffalo III DAC

 

http://www.dimdim.gr/diyaudio/tp-audio-buffalo-iii-dac/

Quote

The clock is a top of the line Crystek CCHD-950-25 running at 100MHz.

 

---

 

Buffalo-IIIsePro38 2-Channel DAC Module (No Tridents/AVCC) = $319

 

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalosep.aspx

 

The Mercury Balanced I/V Stage = $169

 

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/linestages/mercury.aspx

 

Buffalo III/IIISE DAC Integration Guide Revision 2.1.3

 

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/docs/community_docs/leonvb-Buffalo_III_DAC_Integration_Guide_V2.1.3.pdf

 

Buffalo-IIIsePro Manual

 

https://twistedpearaudio.github.io/blog/docs_b3sepro/manual.html

Quote

• VDD: ~1.2 - 1.3V ~220ma Note - nominally this is 1.2V but ESS sent a design notice that it should actually be above 1.25V ‘ and no more than 1.5V when operating with sample rate above 192Khz or DSD128 with the ES9038
• DVCC: 3.3V ~10ma
• AVCCL: 3.3V-4V ~100ma
• AVCCR: 3.3V-4V ~100ma
• VDD_XO: 3.3V ~ 25ma

 

Obviously those voltages and current draws could be handled by LT3045 with ease. The only catch would be finding a high quality source of power for this particular one, maybe we could ask Sean Jacobs to whip something up?

 

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/docs/community_docs/leonvb-Placid_HD_2.1_Guide_V1.0.pdf

Quote

The Mercury requires ±15VDC (bipolar) power supplies.

 

Finally we just need to find a quality U.FL to U.FL cable for directly connecting an isolated clock output from sCLK-EX to Buffalo IIISE DAC board.

[seeteeyou]

16 hours ago, RickyV said:

Honestly i think the neutron star is much better then the sCLK-ex but nobody knows for sure.

 

That's gotta be one of the most interesting comparisons since Neutron Star 2 would only cost € 342.71 (about $425 with free international shipping) without VAT.

 

We could get LT3045 for $23 shipped and that's pretty the best 15V DC PSU for the money

 

http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/lt3045-s.htm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-S-Ultralow-noise-0-8-Vrms-LDO-linear-regulator-0V-15V-500mA-Fixed-out-/253397942111

 

If Neutron Star 2 were indeed better than sCLK-EX, could we actually request 10MHz as an option and then sync that with sCLK-EX?

[seeteeyou]

Looks like they're interested in bulk transfer mode in Japan, their gimmicky name turned out to be "Bulk Pure Enhanced Technology" or Bulk PET

 

https://www.itf.co.jp/prod/audio_solution/bulk-pet/bulk-pet-en

 

 

 

 

 

Windows and OS X drivers for Teac NT-505 and UD-505 with Bulk PET enabled

 

https://teac.jp/downloads/products/teac/teac_asio_usb_driver/teac_asio_usb_driver_v1021_win.zip

https://teac.jp/downloads/products/teac/teac_asio_usb_driver/teac_asio_usb_driver_v100_mac.zip

 

NT-505 does have 10MHz reference clock (50Ω) input right off the bat. MQA decoding, TIDAL, Qobuz, OpenHome, and of course it's also Roon Ready once their firmware updates are good to go

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/teac-nt-505-roon-ready/33389

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

I don't get it.  This is just the OS disk.  Why does it make such a remarkable improvement?  Glad I tried it.

 

Sam Laufer actually went all out to do stuff like this

 

http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=114571&page=1#pid2745381

Quote

write in sequential ,  and read in sequential ..... will NOT spread around NAND flash ,  it is their US Patent.

 

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/sam-laufer

 

System and method for suppressing jitter
https://patents.justia.com/patent/8451701

 

System and method for suppressing jitter in digital data signals including image, video and audio data signals
https://patents.justia.com/patent/8995243

 

32-core Memory Player would set you back $32,950 and that really wasn't a typo by any means

 

https://www.thememoryplayer.net/the-digital-transport-

http://www.lauferteknik.com/product-descriptions-the-memory-player/

 

It would be even more interesting if we're booting off OS disk with only one or maybe two NAND flash memory chips. 64GB ones cost $45 or so

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/eVtran-high-4K-performance-460MB-s-32G-64G-USB3-0-Flashdisk-USB3-0-SLC-flash-drive/32846479966.html

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=562670493852

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=563376880489

 

128GB ones would cost $85 for M.2 and about $100 for USB 3.0 drives respectively, obviously those prices implied SLC chips rather than MLC

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=525911902038

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=549521154761

 

They also have 250GB M.2 drives for $150

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=522026308068

 

Each SLC chip (largest ones should be 512Gb or 64GB a piece) really doesn't consume much power because even the maximum would be merely 50mA

 

https://www.micron.com/products/nand-flash/slc-nand/512Gb

 

MLC ones seemed to have fairly similar numbers

 

https://4donline.ihs.com/images/VipMasterIC/IC/MICT/MICTS04810/MICTS04810-1.pdf#page=129

[seeteeyou]

16 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

I've had the dCBL-UF in my system (between the tX-USBultra and Auralic Vega) for the past 4-5 weeks.  I have the silver version with the 5v power.  I was skeptical that this cable could possibly be worth anywhere near the price I paid, but the sound is simply stunning.  I am extremely happy with it as a replacement for the Lush cable.  When I added a single ferrite, the sound improved further.

 

They're also working on dCBL-BNC as linked below, it's gotta be pretty dope as well

 

http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/dcbl-bnc/

 

Most likely that's meant to match the performance of sCLK-OCX10 so let's see how it goes.

[seeteeyou]

Now that we're talking about LAN cables, let's take this opportunity to compare the traditional Crimp On Type versus another PCB Type called REVConnect (Reliable / Easy / Versatile)

 

http://info.belden.com/ecos/revconnect

 

 

 

https://www.bicsi.org/uploadedfiles/bicsi_conferences/winter/2017/presentations/GS_THURS_1.pdf#page=32

             

 

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/282305/Old/New Belden.com - Master Resources/ESD - Premium Content/Cabling to Support 4K UHD HDBaseT Applications.pdf#page=8

https://www.bicsi.org/uploadedfiles/bicsi_conferences/winter/2017/presentations/GS_THURS_1.pdf#page=24

 

Shielded ones with Belden 10GX62F are sold by Laird

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/cat6a-revmm-006/laird-cat6a-revmm-belden-cat6a-revconnect-rj45-male-to-male-poe-cable-assemblies-6-foot

http://www.lairddigitalcinema.com/Product.asp?cat=CABLES&subcat=DATACAB&prodclass=CAT6CAB&baseitem=CAT6A-REVMM-006&search=0&off=0&showreturn=0

 

10GX62F

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/10GX62F_techdata.pdf

http://ecs.beldenapac.com/html/en/Products/Enterprise/copper/cat6system/copper_112.html

 

Unshielded ones could be built by PacRad (Data → CAT6A → Belden)

 

https://www.pacrad.com/custom-cable-builder

 

Or get some unshielded plugs

 

https://www.pacrad.com/belden-rvafpubk-s1-revconnect-10gig-plug-utp-black.html

 

Followed by one of those 25' Belden 10GXS12 cables

 

https://www.pacrad.com/products/cable-assemblies/data/noshorts-cat6a-revconnect-black-patch-cord-25-ft.html

 

10GXS12

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/10GXS12_techdata.pdf

http://ecs.beldenapac.com/html/en/Products/Enterprise/copper/cat6system/copper_95.html

 

Then the plugs on both ends could be installed with bare hands as shown around the 00:04:40 mark

 

http://youtu.be/c4DdaIDbeX8#t=280

 

[seeteeyou]

Like @romaz and others mentioned before, Mutec REF 10 will only perform as good as the clock cables we're using. So far those 12G-SDI 4K UHD ones from Belden and Canare seemed to be the best bet according to @Beolab as well as @mourip etc.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31857-mutec-ref-10-masterclock/?page=24&tab=comments#comment-773147

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-165#post-14007764

 

In other words, it doesn't hurt to try them out and see if they're performing much better when compared to what we could get from Pasternack RG216.

[seeteeyou]

FYI - I found this particular experience very interesting regarding silver DC cables

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audioquest-dc-cables-why-are-there-almost-no-high-end-dc-cables

Quote

You folks may be over-invested in the star-quad construct.  I made several PCs that way from TFT-insulated silver-plated copper wire that were subsequently trounced by thicker, pure silver wire in a simple twisted pair with a foil shield.  It's worth a try.  Thick silver wire is too expensive for commercial marketing, but relatively cheap for DIY.

 

UP-OCC Hook-up Wire (same as the ones available by SOtM by any chance?)
http://www.neotechcable.com/product9.php

 

26AWG silver gold
http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/neotech-26-gauge-occ-silvergold-alloy/

 

26AWG silver
http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/neotech-26-gauge-upocc-silverteflon-solid-core/

 

Neotech
http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/neotech-wire-teflon-solid-ag-c-296_175_183_225

http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/neotech-wire-teflon-strand-ag-c-296_175_183_226

http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/neotech-wire-pe-strand-aggd-c-296_175_183_448

 

Mundorf

http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/chassis-mundorf-wire-c-296_175_423

 

Jupiter

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-solid-silver-cotton-28-awg-p-1614

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-solid-silver-silk-28-awg-p-5113

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-solid-silver-cotton-23-awg-p-1894

[seeteeyou]

I've been always wondering, what if we're replacing all power cables (i.e. 4-pin Molex, 4-pin / 8-pin CPU, and 20-pin/24-pin ATX etc.) inside our music servers with silver or maybe silver / gold ones?

 

They're already asking an arm and a leg for Furutech Alpha-OCC but that would be OCC copper rather than silver

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=530583321067

 

[seeteeyou]

That's great, Furutech FA-220 should be Ø9mm and that's still good for those Oyaide DC plugs, now we just need to find out if those plugs were the "original" ones with larger entry or the "revised" ones

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/balanced-cables/furutech-fa-220-modulation-cable-pc-occ-symmetrical-o9mm-p-5476.html

 

For 5N pure silver cables, Oyaide FTVS-910 (Ø8.5mm) could very well be yet another candidate @ $120 a meter, just beware of fake products if we weren't getting those wires from their official online store

 

http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/interconnects_cable/pg758.html

https://oyaide.com/catalog/products/p-3628.html

 

 

 

What if the entry of Oyaide DC plugs weren't large enough? We still have one more option that's even better

 

http://www.atl-newcablestudio.com/DC5521RH.html

http://www.atl-newcablestudio.com/DC5525RH.html

 

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, dgarretson said:

That was my post on Audiogon post regarding DIY thick .999 dead soft silver DC cables on SR7.  Since then I have made some 10awg pure silver AC power cords as well, and am surprised how much better they sound on the SR7 than the several Synergistics and Furutech PCs I have on hand.  I would have guessed that the superb Hynes SR7 would benefit little from a fancy PC, but this is not the case.  

 

I've just found your and rrwolfgram14's posts and thank you very much for chiming in, your ideas sound terrific and the price is right

 

http://www.tempoelectric.com/cables.htm

http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-speaker-cable-made-a-major-difference-in-the-sound-quality-of-you?page=2

Quote

rrwolfgram,

 

My silver wires also blew away every brand name I have ever had. Thanks very much for this link.

 

Quote

I put together some .999 silver loudspeaker cables a few months ago using info from the website @rrwolfgram mentioned and couldn't be happier with the results. Total cost for an 8' pair was just shy of $200. 

 

And then similar ones (.9999 silver) without any kinda jacket would cost about the same here

 

http://ccsilver.com/silver/superfines.html

 

Heck, even 24K gold @ 24AWG would only cost $95 per foot so it wouldn't be too bad to give that a shot when we only need very short DC cables for LPS-1.2 anyways. Could that potentially be a game changer or more like a disaster? LOL

[seeteeyou]

We need a motherboard with both 4-pin/8-pin CPU connectors and 24-pin ATX connectors in order to split the motherboard power. Most likely we won't find both sets of connectors on motherboards with NUC / 3.5" SBC / Nano-ITX / Pico-ITX form factors. Usually Both ATX and Micro-ATX should be good to go due to the size, though Mini-ITX would be more like a hit or miss depending on the implementation.

 

Supermicro X10SBA-L should be somewhat "unique" in a way that even its 4-pin CPU connector could provide power to the entire motherboard, though we could still feed both 4-pin CPU connector and 24-pin ATX connector simultaneously like what Innuos did.

[seeteeyou]

BTW, the "Holy Grail" would be providing separate power to feed specific voltages to each and every input separately

• -12V
• +12V
• +5Vsb
• +5V
• +3.3V
• 1.35V for DDR3L RAM
• 1V (or so) for the processor

Obviously both 1.35V and 1V (or so) would require modifications while I don't even know what kinda processor / linear PSU combo would actually work. Let's say we're disabling 1 outta 2 cores of i3-7350K (4.2GHz with 60W TDP) while aggressively underclocking that with a single digit clock multiplier. How many watts do we actually need then? We're talking about only 1V (or so) here so the current draw would be 5A for 5 watts and then 10A for 10 watts etc. Maybe we could try something like AMB σ11 but they said that's only practical for 5V

 

https://www.amb.org/forum/sigma11-at-below-5v-t2267.html

[seeteeyou]

28 minutes ago, rickca said:

Is there no such thing as good sounding switching regulators that could be used on a motherboard?

 

Well, we do need some switching regulators for specific locations but usually we could go for linear regulators (especially LT3045) if the current draw weren't too high

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=241&tab=comments#comment-773624

On 1/31/2018 at 6:50 PM, romaz said:

Of interest, he found that in some locations on the board, switching regulators were better than linear regulators because they had faster response (I presume he's talking about the regulator for the CPU itself).

 

Anyways, replacing existing regulators with LT3045 would require quite a bit of work unless we wanna pay DFI $1,500 to build one of those custom-made motherboards. Other than that, our best bet might be designing our own carrier boards for the usual suspects

• COM Express Type 7
• Intel Compute Card
• SolidRun SolidPC Q4

[seeteeyou]

There's something else from Supermicro that might be worth a look. X10DAi should cost $300 or so now

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c600/x10dai.cfm

 

Engineering sample version of Xeon E5-2628L v4 could be found on eBay / TaoBao for roughly $150 a piece

 

https://ark.intel.com/products/91775/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2628L-v4-30M-Cache-1_90-GHz
https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-Intel-Xeon-E5-2628L-v4-ES-QHV8-1-5GHz-12C-LGA2011-3-Compatible-X99-i7-6950X/152816793229

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=564370836490

 

According to the block diagram of X10DAi, CPU2 on the right is totally NOT bored by anything else while CPU1 on the left is connected to whole bunch of stuff that could be "ignored" if you will

 

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/C612/MNL-1563.pdf#page=19

 

Not sure about assigning a specific RAM module for a particular process / program under Windows, though we do have that option for a specific processor core as shown below

 

Help! My Application only runs on a Single Processor system!

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askperf/2009/02/03/help-my-application-only-runs-on-a-single-processor-system/

 

Tip: Assign a Program or Process to a Specific CPU running on Windows 7

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee851672.aspx

 

How to Set Affinity for an Application on CPU in Windows 10

http://www.howto-connect.com/set-affinity-for-an-application-on-cpu-in-windows-10/

 

 

In other words, why don't we leave any "useless" processes / programs for CPU1 while CPU2 could be dedicated for "useful" audio-related stuff? Similarly, we could install up to 3 pieces of tX-USBexp (1 for USB DAC / 1 for storage / 1 for Ethernet) that are directly connected to CPU2 while the rest of the motherboard might not really matter anymore. Alternatively, HQPlayer could use one of the processors for upsampling while everything else could use another processor.

 

Everything that's connected to the PCH could be disabled in BIOS so that Windows wouldn't even "see" them. If we don't even need to access all 12 cores of Xeon E5-2826L v4, only enable as many cores as we actually want.

 

Most likely we could find something similar from other manufacturers but not all of them would provide the block diagram like Supermicro did.

 

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Antipodes is working with Asus on customizing a motherboard for their products.  I wonder if they are just tuning or really trying something innovative.

 

That's definitely something to look into since their DX Gen 3 seemed to be superior to (i.e. with a much heftier price tag) the ultraRendu + LPS-1 combo

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38528-antipodes-dx-gen3-vs-innuos-zenith-mkii-se/?tab=comments#comment-786885

[seeteeyou]

IMHO we've gotta ask ourselves quite a few (serious) questions before we dive right in

• How many PCI Express lanes and how many x1 slots (for tx-USBexp) do we actually want?
• Do we actually wanna "waste" any space on that motherboard (while adding unnecessary noise / power consumption etc.) with components that are connected to the PCH?
• What kinda components (i.e. SATA / USB / Ethernet etc.) should actually be part of the motherboard when PCI Express add-on cards are vastly superior?
• Is it gonna be a proprietary form factor or a standard one?
• What kinda on-board components would still require their own clocks? And then could we group them close to each other so that all of them would be connected to the same SOtM sCLK-EX board in order to keep the length of each clock cable as short as possible?
• Is it a possibility to feed each and every on-board component with a dedicated source of power so that no more voltage regulators are gonna become the weakest link? (The CPU itself only consumes 1V or so and it's gonna be tough to figure out how to feed that)
• Will DFI charge more than $1,500 if we specifically demand that noise patterns must be measured by a very detailed oscilloscope? And then what are they gonna do if they weren't even able to meet / beat the performance of Supermicro X10SBA-L?
• Does it make more sense to build a motherboard or should we go for a carrier board instead? For instance, their DV970 (up to 16 cores) might be good for upsampling to DSD512 in HQP

https://www.dfi.com/Product/Index/149

https://ark.intel.com/products/series/97941/Intel-Atom-Processor-C-Series

 

In a nutshell, we've gotta figure out how we're gonna feed the "cleanest" source of power to that motherboard / carrier board as our top priority. And then we'll decide how many PCI Express slots (that are directly connected to the CPU) are required, so that we'll see what kinda CPU would suit our needs.

 

Let's say we're going for either Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake, we've got 16 lanes to boot but it's gonna be limited to 3 PCI Express slots or less

 

Kaby Lake = 16 PCI Express lanes (1x8+2x4)

https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/82879/Kaby-Lake

 

Coffee Lake = 16 PCI Express lanes (1x8+2x4)

https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/97787/Coffee-Lake

 

For Gemini Lake, we could get up to 4 PCI Express slots even though there are only 6 lanes

 

Gemini Lake = 6 PCI Express Lanes (2x1+1x2+1x2)
https://ark.intel.com/products/codename/83915/Gemini-Lake

[seeteeyou]

4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

• What add on PCIe cards would we use?  tXUSBexp x 2, NIC?  That's 3 right there.

 

Indeed, 3 slots should be the bare minimum if we're having absolutely no on-board SATA/USB/Ethernet components. We just can't really go above 3 with either Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake. To get more than 3 slots / 16 lanes, we'll have to think about the power-hungry Core X-series with 28 or even 40 lanes.

 

Now we just need to decide whether we still wanna have one more slot for a display card or not.

 

4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

• Do we all agree to use an sCLK?  If so the board would need to be sent to SOtM.  Some risk with that, but it should be ok.

 

That's gonna be the $64,000 question, depending on what kinda approach we're going after. Let's say we're shooting for that "Go Big or Go Home" approach, how on Earth could anyone be contented with anything less than the performance of sCLK-EX? All we need is just asking DFI to solder the right connector to the location where the clock(s) is/are required, then they'll let us specify the frequency in the manual and we'll figure out what kinda clock(s) should we get.

 

And then it doesn't HAVE to be sCLK-EX to begin with, we might also get Neutrino 2 since an owner of Singxer SU-1 already had a taste of that already

 

http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=24

ttps://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29553-my-very-mini-review-of-the-singxer-su-1-ddc/?page=52&tab=comments#comment-788425

 

4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

• Shortest paths yes.  If we don't follow a standard form factor it will be difficult to mount in a case, but not impossible.

 

Most likely Mini-ITX cases wouldn't have the space to accommodate 3 (or more) PCI Express add-on cards, while we still wanna keep the size of that motherboard reasonably small for the sake of short clock cables. Let's see how we'd like to strike the right balance then.

 

4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

• Yes to independent power source options.

 

Now we've gotta reach a consensus at some point. Not all of us here are owners of SR7 with lots of rails, while the current draw of each component would obviously depend on what we're doing. Feeding the CPU with its dedicated power source should be a given since that's already reported by Larry and others. And then Sligolad also boosted the SQ big time when he fed power to his RAM separately with LT3045 @ 3A.

 

How about the PCH if we weren't even having anything connected to that, as long as we've got our own PCI Express display cards? Maybe ask DFI and see if PCH were actually required for a motherboard to function properly or otherwise.

 

SATA / USB / Ethernet should be taken care of already since we'll add our own PCI Express cards. What else do we need?

 

Of course we've gotta consider what to do about the 4-pin/8-pin CPU connector in addition to the 24-pin ATX connector. We're expected to provide 12V for the 4-pin/8-pin CPU connector while it's inevitable that will go through a voltage regulator, given that CPU itself should require only 1V or so. Now that we're planning to feed the CPU with a dedicated source of power, do we still need that 4-pin/8-pin CPU connector or not?

 

Similarly, our game plan (for the best case scenario that is) should be feeding each and every component with a separate power source in order to prevent "lousy" voltage regulators from ruining the day. If that particular mission were actually accomplished, maybe we could also ask DFI to find out if that 24-pin ATX connector were still necessary?

 

Like what I said before, it just really depends on whether we're going all out or are we contended with something that might be "as good as" or marginally better than Supermicro X10SBA-L.

[seeteeyou]

11 minutes ago, mozes said:

It is amazing that there is a wide acceptance to the idea. Unfortunately I can’t drive this project as I have neither the time nor the technical expertise. Without a leader, I don’t think we can make it happen. 

 

I've been "dreaming" about a project like that myself, though most of us here should agree that only someone like @romaz is qualified to be our leader. However, he's just too busy himself and that wouldn't go very far.

 

Another possibility would be finding someone here who does speak Korean and then maybe we could approach SOtM with a specific list of requirements. We'll see if Lee were interested in selling something between sMS-200ultra the successor to their sMS-1000SQ. That's gonna help them to sell more sCLK-EX and tx-USBexp anyways so that wouldn't be such a bad idea IMHO.

 

Other than that, I could only think of asking Korat Engineering how much would it actually cost to get a single piece of customized carrier board for SolidPC Q4 off the ground, and then is there a way to arrange a group buy afterwards

 

http://www.korat-eng.com/contact

https://wiki.solid-run.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=ibx:microsom:docs:sr-usom-ibx-assy-rev1.0.pdf

 

BTW, this one ain't gonna be x86 by any means but they're asking even more than DFI did

 

https://www.gumstix.com/ordering/geppetto-orders/

Quote

• For your first order, on a new design, the initial manufacturing fee is $1,999. This covers setup costs for fab design, stencils, and SMT programming.

• On repeat orders for a design that has been built before, the repeat manufacturing fee is $999. Repeat manufacturing setup fees apply to reorders requiring no change to the PCB fab. This is for any quantity and will be delivered within 15 days.

• On orders going to production, the initial production fee is $499. Production orders of more than 50 boards with a lead-time of 5 weeks will be charged $499.

Orders in production are subject to a minimum of 50 units, and have no manufacturing setup fee.

 

 

[seeteeyou]

Wait a minute, @romaz did ask DFI about the costs but eventually he only sent his "plain vanilla" BW171 to SOtM for sCLK-EX mods.

 

And then fairly recently he did talk about starting his own project in the future

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=241&tab=comments#comment-773624

Quote

While I am content with what I have for now, at some point (as a leisurely hobby rather than as a necessity), I may yet try and design my own.  For those interested, one way of doing it without going to the expense of designing a complete motherboard from scratch is to buy a SOM (System-on-Module) from someone like DFI and these SOMs are relatively inexpensive.  These small boards essentially contain an Intel SoC (System-on-a-chip) which would then contain the CPU of your choosing (from Celeron to i7) and an appropriate Intel chipset as well as RAM slots but nothing else (i.e. no audio, video, LAN, USB connectors or PCIe slots).  This SOM board then plugs into a "Carrier Board" that customers can design themselves and it is the Carrier Board that will house all peripherals and ports.

 

And then ZENith SE Mk.II didn't really have any clock upgrades whatsoever, maybe they're simply saving that feature for even better products down the road.

 

In other words, we've got quite a bit of room for improvement while the sky is the limit IMHO.