New ISP, Network Problems With Audio Device, Help needed

[mansr]

MANY home routers have terrible switches, which usually doesn't show up for normal file copying etc, but can wreak havoc with digital audio because it is real time. If the switch takes too long to forward packets it won't matter for a printer, but can cause major problems for audio which needs the data to be coming at a regular interval.

 

Can we please be realistic for a moment? Even the cheapest of switches have sub-millisecond forwarding delays under normal load conditions, and streaming audio is well within usual parameters. Now switches can of course malfunction. I've had several cheap ones break down, but never have I seen one fail in a manner matching what you suggest. In all cases, one or more ports have simply ceased all communication in one or both directions.

 

If you and others still believe that Ethernet switches somehow have a "sound," by all means spend your time and money searching for one you find pleasing. However, bringing up such theories when someone needs assistance with a fairly basic connectivity problem is not helpful at all.

 

A DHCP server assigns an address to a device (the computer, the AVR etc) for a certain period of time (usually somewhere between1 and 24 hours), this is called a lease. At the end of the lease time the device and the DHCP server have to re-negotiate the lease, if they don't do this in time, the lease runs out and the device can't talk over the network any more. When the two try and do this there is a timeout involved, if the DHCP server doesn't respond fast enough the device might timeout and not get the new lease. Different devices have different timeouts, so what may work fine for one device may not work for another.

 

DHCP clients will usually attempt to renew a lease at half time, not right at the end. This typically gives them several hours to extend the lease without any interruption in connectivity. Besides, the problem described by the OP does not appear to be transient in nature, so a brief timeout condition is unlikely to be the cause.

 

For the switch issues you buy a separate switch, a simple inexpensive switch is the best, you can get these for less than $25. A lot of people like the Netgear metal box switches. (including me, I have a whole bunch of them)

 

A simple $25 switch is often adequate for a home network, but I fail to see why you'd say they are "the best." More expensive switches are demonstrably better-performing under load and more reliable in general. Personally, I use Netgear ProSafe managed switches, and I've never had a problem with them.

 

There are two ways you can hook this up, completely replace the switch in the router with the new switch, in which case all of your devices plug into the new switch, and you have one cable from the new switch back into the router.

 

This removes internal wired traffic from the router. Internet access and DHCP will still go through the router's built-in switch. Wifi is also still handled by the router. While such a topology might be useful in some ways, it doesn't seem relevant here.

 

The other is to use the new switch just for the audio connection. Plug the AVR into the new switch and the computer which runs the server, and everything else is still on the router, you still need the cable from the new switch to the router.

 

I see no benefit in such an arrangement. Everything still passes through the router. The one case I can think of where it might make a difference is if the AVR is very far from the router, so far that the cheap switch in the router might have trouble driving so long a cable. I doubt this would be an issue for cable lengths under 100 metres or so.

[mansr]

I have the router set to static IPs to all connected devices, although I've seen somewhere that this may be some kind of virtual static setting rather than actual. So, when I connect the AVR to the room switch, do I need to assign a fixed far-range static IP for the AVR from my computer? And presumably remove the static IP for it set by the router?

 

From your description, it appears that you've configured the router's DHCP server to assign fixed (static) IP addresses to your devices. Said devices will still be using DHCP to get their addresses. What you want to do, at least for a quick test, is to configure the AVR with a manually assigned address in place of DHCP. In the setup menus, go to Network/Settings. At the top there is an on/off toggle for DHCP and below this entries for IP address, subnet mask, gateway, and DNS. If DHCP is on, the rest of the settings are greyed out showing the values provided by the DHCP server. To set a static IP address, switch DHCP off. This activates the remaining fields, which you then need to fill in with the correct values. The subnet mask, gateway, and DNS settings should be the same as on your PC. For the IP address, take whatever your PC has and replace the last of the four numbers with 250. You do not need to change the settings on any other devices provided they are currently working.

 

In the Marantz network setup, at least on mine, there is also a diagnostics page. It's not particularly useful, but it might still give a hint.

[Yorkie]

.....What you want to do, at least for a quick test, is to configure the AVR with a manually assigned address in place of DHCP...

 

I have re-cabled direct to the switch, I have re-set the system, I have the AVR's DCHP set to off and have manually set the IPs as suggested above. The system works, now I wait to see if it works tomorrow.

 

The AVR now has an IP set to xxxx.250. The router still has a static IP set for it of xxxx.043. Should I set the fixed IP to 250, remove the setting or leave it alone?

 

Louise

[mansr]

I have re-cabled direct to the switch, I have re-set the system, I have the AVR's DCHP set to off and have manually set the IPs as suggested above. The system works, now I wait to see if it works tomorrow.

 

The AVR now has an IP set to xxxx.250. The router still has a static IP set for it of xxxx.043. Should I set the fixed IP to 250, remove the setting or leave it alone?

 

As long as the AVR has DHCP turned off, it makes no difference how the router is configured. I'd leave everything as is for now and see if it keeps working.

[Yorkie]

Day 1: the AVR works

 

Louise

[mansr]

Day 1: the AVR works

 

Louise

 

That's great. If it remains stable, you might want to try putting the cabling back the way it was in case the long cable from AVR to switch is inconvenient.

[Yorkie]

A day and half, it lasted. It's fallen over again

 

This time, it was stopped while playing a track, and on switching on again, that track is stuck on it's playlist. It won't respond to any other channel input. Network diagnostics say it's connected to the internet, but it doesn't show on the PC's network and it doesn't appear on Spotify or BubbleServer. Network Setup Assistant cannot set it up, it cannot connect to an internet radio station.

 

The only way forward I've found from here is to do a factory re-set, which loses all amp settings and speaker calibration.

 

Louise

[esmit]

Sell it, you have given it enough attention ;-)

[mansr]

A day and half, it lasted. It's fallen over again

 

This time, it was stopped while playing a track, and on switching on again, that track is stuck on it's playlist. It won't respond to any other channel input. Network diagnostics say it's connected to the internet, but it doesn't show on the PC's network and it doesn't appear on Spotify or BubbleServer. Network Setup Assistant cannot set it up, it cannot connect to an internet radio station.

 

The only way forward I've found from here is to do a factory re-set, which loses all amp settings and speaker calibration.

 

Louise

 

This seems like more than just a network problem. If you haven't already, switch off the AVR and unplug its power for several minutes to make sure it is fully rebooted. I've had to do this a few times with my Marantz AVRs.

[Yorkie]

This seems like more than just a network problem. If you haven't already, switch off the AVR and unplug its power for several minutes to make sure it is fully rebooted. I've had to do this a few times with my Marantz AVRs.

 

That didn't help

[Yorkie]

Sell it, you have given it enough attention ;-)

 

Now tempting, I'm thoroughly fed up of it, but as it's still under warranty, I'd rather send it back as faulty.

[Apesbrain]

At this point I'd put my wiring back to the target end-state and do a "Factory Reset" on both the AVR and the router. The router of course will need its wi-fi settings redone and the only setting I'd do to the AVR is to enable "IP Control". Power up everything in the order I earlier outlined and give it a try. If no luck, send it in for warranty repair because the IP Control is not working or buy a Chromecast Audio and connect it to the AVR digitally.

[mansr]

Now tempting, I'm thoroughly fed up of it, but as it's still under warranty, I'd rather send it back as faulty.

 

If you can get it replaced under warranty, just do that.

[Yorkie]

If you can get it replaced under warranty, just do that.

 

The conclusion of this thread seems to be don't buy Marantz. Nothing but trouble for 18 months.

 

Thank you all for your help and advice. I appreciate it even if we couldn't fix the problem.

 

Louise

[mansr]

The conclusion of this thread seems to be don't buy Marantz. Nothing but trouble for 18 months.

 

Thank you all for your help and advice. I appreciate it even if we couldn't fix the problem.

 

Louise

 

I've had a Marantz SR7007 and (currently) an SR7010. Both have required a cold restart on few occasions, but it's been quite rare, no worse than other gadgets. A factory reset has never been required. I think you've simply had bad luck with yours, though I understand your frustration.

[Yorkie]

I've received advice fro Marantz on my problem.

 

"Unplug network cable, turn unit off, unplug mains lead, plug in network cable, plus in mains lead, turn on."

 

Well, I've done that, I've said abracadabra a couple of times for good luck and set the whole thing up again. So, for this afternoon at least, I've got high quality music again, but I'm not holding out much hope for the viability of this fix, somehow. We'll see.

 

Louise

[Yorkie]

Well, that didn't last overnight...

 

Here's a question, could anyone answer it for me? The quality of music I get by playing Spotify over HDMI from my computer is poor. I'm wondering, until I fix the network problem and get TIDAL back, is there any way I can improve the Spotify experience? Could I record to a hard drive and use the USB IN to the Marantz to improve the quality? Could I use any other connection from the computer which will do better than the HDMI connection?

 

I've tried Spotify direct from an Android box via optical link into the Marantz and the quality was terrible. I'm guessing this was down to a poor renderer in the Android box.

 

Frustrated of St Jean Pied de Port

[mansr]

Well, that didn't last overnight...

 

Here's a question, could anyone answer it for me? The quality of music I get by playing Spotify over HDMI from my computer is poor. I'm wondering, until I fix the network problem and get TIDAL back, is there any way I can improve the Spotify experience? Could I record to a hard drive and use the USB IN to the Marantz to improve the quality? Could I use any other connection from the computer which will do better than the HDMI connection?

 

I've tried Spotify direct from an Android box via optical link into the Marantz and the quality was terrible. I'm guessing this was down to a poor renderer in the Android box.

 

Frustrated of St Jean Pied de Port

 

Make sure you select the highest quality in Spotify.

[Cebolla]

Here's a question, could anyone answer it for me? The quality of music I get by playing Spotify over HDMI from my computer is poor. I'm wondering, until I fix the network problem and get TIDAL back, is there any way I can improve the Spotify experience? Could I record to a hard drive and use the USB IN to the Marantz to improve the quality? Could I use any other connection from the computer which will do better than the HDMI connection?

 

I've tried Spotify direct from an Android box via optical link into the Marantz and the quality was terrible. I'm guessing this was down to a poor renderer in the Android box.

 

Frustrated of St Jean Pied de Port

Is there nobody in & around St Jean Pied de Port (a Spaniard just across the border, perhaps?) that can lend you a genuine Google Chromecast Audio device (plus if necessary the 3.5mm optical to toslink and/or 3.5mm to stereo RCA cables) to try out in place of that Freebox Chromecast 'clone' or, dare I say it, risk buying one?

 

The bonus is that with your Windows PC for Tidal access & control setup you can even get the normally non gapless supporting Chromecast Audio (when streaming contiguous files) to 'play' gaplessly. Plus hopefully get some 'proper' use out of the Marantz's USB port, by powering the CCA so avoid having to use its mains adapter.

 

It could save you all that bother attempting to copying Spotify (never mind the legal implications) and may even prove to be the solution!

[Yorkie]

Is there nobody in & around St Jean Pied de Port (a Spaniard just across the border, perhaps?) that can lend you an original Google Chromecast Audio device (plus if necessary the 3.5mm optical to toslink cable and/or 3.5mm to strereo RCA cables) to try out or, dare I say it, risk buying one? The bonus is that with your Windows PC for control setup you can even get the normally non gapless supporting CCA (when streaming contiguous files) to 'play' gaplessly.

 

It could save you all that bother attempting to copying Spotify (never mind the legal implications) and may even prove to be the solution!

 

I've used Chromecast via the Android TV box, and the quality was poor. I have tried using the computer as a renderer and the quality was poor. The conclusion then is that the renderer in the Marantz is of good quality, the ones in the TV box and the computer are not. At £20 and aimed squarely at the mp3 market, I can't see the Chromecast itself being any better.

 

It was a silly question I asked, I'm afraid My system relies on FLAC streaming to the Marantz, and if the Marantz won't handle it, I can't suddenly magic up a solution to replace near-audiophile quality components with something cheap and cheerful.

[Cebolla]

I edited my last post to make it a bit clearer, so it may be worth you re-reading it. The implication is that there's likely a problem with your Android devices's Google Cast support (or, hopefully not, something wrong with the Marantz's input you were using for it).

 

An actual Google Chromecast Audio device can certainly be used as a decent network FLAC player & not just as a mere MP3 casting device for the masses. Plenty of discussions here on CA in this regard, eg:

Chromecast Audio (Analog and Digital Outputs) $35

[Yorkie]

I edited my last post to make it a bit clearer, so it may be worth you re-reading it. The implication is that there's likely a problem with your Android devices's Google Cast support (or, hopefully not, something wrong with the Marantz's input you were using for it).

 

An actual Google Chromecast Audio device can certainly be used as a decent network FLAC player & not just as a mere MP3 casting device for the masses. Plenty of discussions here on CA in this regard, eg:

Chromecast Audio (Analog and Digital Outputs) $35

 

I'm getting confused looking through all the stuff about Chromecast. It seems it's bit-perfect on FLAC, but it also seems to be wi-fi only. Is wi-fi capable of bit-perfect streaming?

 

Am I just being snobbish about cabled network?

[mansr]

I'm getting confused looking through all the stuff about Chromecast. It seems it's bit-perfect on FLAC, but it also seems to be wi-fi only. Is wi-fi capable of bit-perfect streaming?

 

Of course it is. Web pages don't come out garbled on wifi, do they?

[Yorkie]

Of course it is. Web pages don't come out garbled on wifi, do they?

 

Web pages don't stream, do they? They use a different protocol concerned with shifting a block of date, and have checks to verify the data. That way, however slow or spotty the wi-fi may be, they come out perfect. Streaming in real time is a different kettle of fish.

 

But, you have made me think and what I thought is that I have never tired to set up the Marantz on wi-fi. So now I have, and I'll see if this is more stable than cable was. If so, I'll try it on FLAC and see if it can handle it.

[Cebolla]

Nope, the streaming of audio files, including FLAC, is certainly not real time audio. It's just a (temporary) file data copy over HTTP, with control of the playback at the receiver end of the network. Having said that, a network with a poor enough throughput will cause drop outs. Would have to be a pretty poor WiFi setup if it couldn't cope with ~700kbps required by CD res FLAC.

 

BTW, didn't realise you hadn't tried testing the Marantz's WiFi!