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New ISP, Network Problems With Audio Device, Help needed


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I've been running a stable network based system for the past year, Windows 10 - Bubble Server - Linn Kazoo - Marantz SR6009. Last month I changed internet service provider and since then, the system has become unstable. Most times when the Marantz is turned off, it fails to find the network on restart and needs a reinitialisation ((which loses all settings and calibration - not good).

 

Marantz suggested opening several ports on the router (3813, 443, 80, 502) but this failed to help.

 

Can anone suggest a way forward? I simply don't know enough about networking to make progress, and not enough about internet to know what to ask of the service provider.

 

Louise

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I've been running a stable network based system for the past year, Windows 10 - Bubble Server - Linn Kazoo - Marantz SR6009. Last month I changed internet service provider and since then, the system has become unstable. Most times when the Marantz is turned off, it fails to find the network on restart and needs a reinitialisation ((which loses all settings and calibration - not good).

 

Marantz suggested opening several ports on the router (3813, 443, 80, 502) but this failed to help.

 

Can anone suggest a way forward? I simply don't know enough about networking to make progress, and not enough about internet to know what to ask of the service provider.

 

Louise

 

I think the issue starts with, what has changed in addition to your ISP (as @esmit asked). My guess is you received a new router and you are using its wireless capabilities and other capabilities for your network. This is the issue. If all you're doing is sending audio around your house, there's no need to open ports on your router.

 

Let us know what's changed and we'll help you resolve the issue one step at a time.

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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I think the issue starts with, what has changed in addition to your ISP (as @esmit asked).

 

Hi, @esmit and @The Computer Audiophile,

 

The supplier was changed, the router was changed, the phone line was changed (new wires into house, new number, new extension within house). The new router handles house network needs, wireless and wired, being three computers and two phones, but this demand has not changed between new and old networks.

 

Let us know what's changed and we'll help you resolve the issue one step at a time.

 

Thanks, guys :)

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I should add: one of the phones doesn't like the new network either. The computers and the other phones are fine, but one phone won't make a stable connection. Wi-fi strength is excellent, network content obviously good because everything else works, including FLAC streaming when I have the AVR reset.

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Do you still have your old router? If so, you could try to recreate your old situation without connecting the new router, see if it works (no Internet, indeed) and if so, connect your new modem on its wan port.

 

No, the old box had to be sent back to the old service provider.

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Hi, @esmit and @The Computer Audiophile,

The supplier was changed, the router was changed, the phone line was changed (new wires into house, new number, new extension within house). The new router handles house network needs, wireless and wired, being three computers and two phones, but this demand has not changed between new and old networks.

Thanks, guys :)

I should add: one of the phones doesn't like the new network either. The computers and the other phones are fine, but one phone won't make a stable connection. Wi-fi strength is excellent, network content obviously good because everything else works, including FLAC streaming when I have the AVR reset.

 

This has nothing to do with network or wireless strength and everything to do with configuration.

 

I will tell you what recommend for anyone who asks, but with a slight twist that will save you money and configuration. You may not like it, but I want to let you know what will work in 99.999% of cases.

 

Keep your new ISP supplied router.

 

Shut off the ISP supplied router's WiFi

 

Purchase a new wireless router that has Ethernet ports as well.

 

Connect this router to your ISP supplied router.

 

Set the new router to be a bridge not a router.

 

Connect your home Ethernet and WiFi devices to this new router.

 

 

 

The bottom line is that ISP supplied routers often suck. Using a different device on your network separates the functions and enables you to switch ISPs any time you want without changing the rest of your network.

 

 

Another option you have is to try to reconfigure the ISP supplied router. See if the WiFi is at 2.4 or 5 GHz or both, see if there's a firmware update, see if UPnP is enabled on the router,e tc...

 

This may be a bit overwhelming, but I encourage you to take it one step at a time we'll help you figure it out. It's not rocket science. There are plenty of people around here that have been there and done that numerous times.

Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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It's all gone quiet on this thread :( Has anyone got any ideas?

 

The instability is not consistent. Some days, the AVR will find it network connection through a simple set-up procedure, but some days it needs a full factory default re-set. Today, the AVR found the network, but Bubble UPnP would not play, refusing to see the AVR as a renderer even though it was on and playing internet radio.

 

I'm pretty sure its a port or firewall issue but I have no idea how to chase it down.

 

Louise

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Hi Louise

 

From the sounds of it you need to make sure the AVR's network connection is stable first, before you can begin to tackle any possible additional problems of UPnP device discovery, instability caused by UPnP discovery data floods, etc. The fact that the AVR sometimes powers up complaining that it hasn't got network access, especially with it needing a factory reset, is quite a fundamental issue to sort out.

 

Going through the previous posts you have yet to establish whether it is the new ISP's kit that's causing the issue, however suspicious. It could just be that you've been unlucky & in the change your AVR's developed a fault or a hidden fault in it has been exposed. You didn't say if you have your old (wireless?) router to test with - it shouldn't need internet access to test whether your AVR is still ok, especially to get it to connect properly to its wireless network.

 

Also, start by just connecting the Marantz (freshly factory re-set) to the network with no other devices (wired or wireless) and investigate its stability thoroughly. If it doesn't survive that, then there's very likely an issue with your Marantz.

 

John

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Hi Louise

 

From the sounds of it you need to make sure the AVR's network connection is stable first, before you can begin to tackle any possible additional problems of UPnP device discovery, instability caused by UPnP discovery data floods, etc. The fact that the AVR sometimes powers up complaining that it hasn't got network access, especially with it needing a factory reset, is quite a fundamental issue to sort out.

 

Going through the previous posts you have yet to establish whether it is the new ISP's kit that's causing the issue, however suspicious. It could just be that you've been unlucky & in the change your AVR's developed a fault or a hidden fault in it has been exposed. You didn't say if you have your old (wireless?) router to test with - it shouldn't need internet access to test whether your AVR is still ok, especially to get it to connect properly to its wireless network.

 

Also, start by just connecting the Marantz (freshly factory re-set) to the network with no other devices (wired or wireless) and investigate its stability thoroughly. If it doesn't survive that, then there's very likely an issue with your Marantz.

 

John

 

Hi, John,

 

Firstly, I appreciate your signature line. Jo's funeral was a couple of days ago, a very sad time for all us from the North.

 

After my last post, with a view to stability, I set the DHCP to use a fixed address for the Marantz. To isolate the Marantz from the rest of the network is tricky, as we're running a business that needs internet access. But with a bit of thinking around, it may be possible by using the second line, one way or another. I'll work on how. I'd been assuming the AVR was OK as it had worked before, but you do raise a valid point of maybe having uncovered a fault.

 

Louise

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It's all gone quiet on this thread :( Has anyone got any ideas?

 

The instability is not consistent. Some days, the AVR will find it network connection through a simple set-up procedure, but some days it needs a full factory default re-set. Today, the AVR found the network, but Bubble UPnP would not play, refusing to see the AVR as a renderer even though it was on and playing internet radio.

 

I'm pretty sure its a port or firewall issue but I have no idea how to chase it down.

 

Louise

 

#1 Have you looked at Marantz to see if it has a firmware upgrade available? It's in the setup menu.

#2 When you say you are resetting receiver, are you just turning it off or unplugging device? A simple unplug, replug in can clear a unit out without losing any settings.

#3 When you restart receiver and go through set-up are you noticing if it has a different IP address each time? It could be that you have Marantz setup as DHCP which means it is looking for an IP address BUT the one it normally has is already taken by another device so it finds another one which of course is NOT the address your Bubble UPnP app is looking for. If this is sounding confusing then my best advice is to get yourself a professional in there to see how your network is operating and set some things up as static addresses so the app can always find the receiver, etc.

 

PS. As I was typing I see someone just recommended very similar line of attack! As they are also commenting, DHCP could be the culprit!

David

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#1 Have you looked at Marantz to see if it has a firmware upgrade available? It's in the setup menu.

#2 When you say you are resetting receiver, are you just turning it off or unplugging device? A simple unplug, replug in can clear a unit out without losing any settings.

#3 When you restart receiver and go through set-up are you noticing if it has a different IP address each time? It could be that you have Marantz setup as DHCP which means it is looking for an IP address BUT the one it normally has is already taken by another device so it finds another one which of course is NOT the address your Bubble UPnP app is looking for. If this is sounding confusing then my best advice is to get yourself a professional in there to see how your network is operating and set some things up as static addresses so the app can always find the receiver, etc.

 

PS. As I was typing I see someone just recommended very similar line of attack! As they are also commenting, DHCP could be the culprit!

 

The re-set needed was a return-to-default, which loses all other settings. Speaker calibration, HDMI settings, bi-amp settings.

 

It maintained the same IP addresses through each re-set.

 

I've now set a static DCHP, fingers crossed!

 

Louise

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Did you get another router?

 

Besides that it would be good to set all devices to a fixed ip address. What brand and model of router(s) do you have?

 

I no longer have the old router, and don't have a spare, although with a bit of forethought, I could try the set up on the second line router (same make, though).

 

The router is a Freebox Revolution, proprietary kit from the French ISP I'm contracted with.

 

Louise

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How would proper hi-fi network players behave when connecting to the internet? Would they be better than the AVR? I'm not sure how much more effort this AVR is worth, it seems to be too flaky and in reality, isn't really powerful enough for my speakers anyway. I may be better upgrading to a network player and amp than fixing this system, unless I just run into the same problems again!

 

Louise

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I've now set a static DCHP, fingers crossed!

How did this work out? I'd suggest the server (Win 10 PC) and the player (Marantz AVR) both be on static IP.

 

After adjusting these settings it would be a good idea to un-power all components and then re-power them in this order: 1) router, 2) Win PC, 3) AVR. Let each one fully boot up before moving on to the next. This will allow the router to reassign all IP addresses according to the new rules.

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How did this work out? I'd suggest the server (Win 10 PC) and the player (Marantz AVR) both be on static IP.

 

After adjusting these settings it would be a good idea to un-power all components and then re-power them in this order: 1) router, 2) Win PC, 3) AVR. Let each one fully boot up before moving on to the next. This will allow the router to reassign all IP addresses according to the new rules.

 

It hasn't worked so far. But your plan is more thorough, I had only fixed the AVR end of it, so I'll fixing the computer address and rebooting in order tomorrow.

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Don't forget, testing with any other devices attached to the network, even one other, is moot unless you're confident that the AVR is properly connecting to the network, without any of those reset issues.

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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How would proper hi-fi network players behave when connecting to the internet? Would they be better than the AVR? I'm not sure how much more effort this AVR is worth, it seems to be too flaky and in reality, isn't really powerful enough for my speakers anyway. I may be better upgrading to a network player and amp than fixing this system, unless I just run into the same problems again!
Indeed, if the reason for those UPnP device discovery issues you described is due to a problem with the router's management of the network, then it's certainly possible that other streamers would have similar issues.

 

You can't get any cheaper than a Google Chromecast Audio device as a 'proper' reliable network player to test with, so may be worth getting - especially as you're already geared up to access it as an OpenHome renderer, with your use of the BubbleUPnP Server helper software. You could simply connect the CCA's output to the AVR.

 

The CCA's currently half price in Currys at £15 - shame you're currently in the Basque country!

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Indeed, if the reason for those UPnP device discovery issues you described is due to a problem with the router's management of the network, then it's certainly possible that other streamers would have similar issues.

 

You can't get any cheaper than a Google Chromecast Audio device as a 'proper' reliable network player to test with, so may be worth getting - especially as you're already geared up to access it as an OpenHome renderer, with your use of the BubbleUPnP Server helper software. You could simply connect the CCA's output to the AVR.

 

The CCA's currently half price in Currys at £15 - shame you're currently in the Basque country!

 

I have an Android box, unused, part of the Free TV package bundled by the ISP, which has Chromecast. I can, have, configured it to be a network UPnP OpenHome renderer, but I cannot get Linn Kazoo, to cast to it. It seems to look for an AVR and nothing else.

 

Windows itself will cast, and my set-up will cast from my computer to my phone, which has Bubble UPnP installed. This is interesting but not useful.

 

(Linn Kazoo is the only way I know to get from TIDAL to stream FLAC from my PC. Possibly there are other ways, does anyone know? On my phone, Bubble UPnP will stream TIDAL direct, no need for a middle man.)

 

Louise

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Quick question on the static IP addresses. I've started doing this, and have set my PC following instructions. But the router offers static IP management and showed a different address. So, does it need setting from BOTH ends, or could I just chnage it from the router end? This would have the advantage of being simple: the router shows all peripheral points and they can all be selected and allocated an IP address.

 

Is there any way of protecting static IPs so that anything new connecting won't be served an already-allocated address by DCHP ?

 

Louise

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