My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC

[ted_b]

13 hours ago, scan80269 said:

You may want to wait till I can confirm success with my SU-1 first.  I have never replaced a surface mount LDO regulator with a through-hole one, so there is some risk this mod may be deadly to my SU-1.  I'll need a bit of luck and a lot of care to pull this off.

 

Should I be successful, I wouldn't mind performing the same mod for you.  Shipping just the SU-1 circuit board should be much cheaper than shipping the whole unit.  Of course your product warranty would become void with such a mod!

 

I would also welcome the opportunity to do a sonic shootout between modded and stock SU-1.  Since the mods are not reversible, the modded unit needs to be directly compared to a stock unit to assess the SQ benefits (if any).

 

 

Scan, I'm not sure where you are, but if US then I could send you my stock one to compare with.  Shoot a PM if needed.

[ted_b]

I am SOOOOOO upset!  After trying for several weeks to get various USB attachments (microRendu with hard adapter, hard adapter twisted 90 degrees, Intona, etc) into the SU-1 all the while with my fat HDMI cable installed, today I went and pulled my go-to USB cable (TotalDAC D1) that I use for the Windows ASIo driver (JCAT card).  And voila, the internals of the USB input from the SU-1 came out with the cable!!!!  Broke!  The black rectangular center post of the female USB connection broke off and temporarily stuck into my cable's end.  It was rather easy to pry out of there, but the damage was done.  Net/net, I had put too much stress on the SU-1's USB input and now it is broken.

 

Does anyone have a clue how difficult it would be to install a new USB input into the SU-1?  I would send it out for a price, really!  I suck at these kin=ds of things, especially when they include soldering. 

[ted_b]

Thanks so much...I'll wait to hear.  I'm such an idiot, thinking these things are stronger than they are. 

[ted_b]

Scan80269,  I am very interested in your listening impressions at the end of the day.  Did you note what phase 2 brought sonically, and therefore can map what phase 3 does?  Is it correct to say that clock mods are relatively safe upgrades, assuming the new clocks are better spec'd...or is this a synergy thing, liking baking a cake, and it is not always a musical result to have "better" ingredients?

[ted_b]

1) yes, any decent power cable will help

2) never turn off the SU-1.  The clocks would take too long to reach equilibrium for my tastes (hours+)

3) Version 2.5 of Sonic Oribiter ($20 microRendu upgrade for new sd card) gives you SU-1 native DSD support.  Furthermore, 2.2 of SU-1 gives you DSD512 (this firmware is only available to Kitsune customers AFAIK).  Some say new Kitusne SU-1s ship with it, but not sure when Tim will send to others.  I reported on my beta version earlier.

[ted_b]

3 hours ago, LoryWiv said:

 

1) Thanks...what is better bang  for buck: A moderate-level power cord like Zu Birth versus adding an iPurifier...both are under $75?

 

2) Good to know as the on-off switch on rear is somewhat inaccessible in my setup.

 

3) Newbie disclosure: How do I tell what firmware the SU-1 is running? Is 2.2 available from Tim? I did buy my SU-1 from Kitsune after meeting him and auditioning it at CanJam SoCal earlier this month.

 

Thank you, ted_b.

1)  try either.  There are many good low end power cords.

3)  There is a pdf included with the driver download on the Kitsune site.  It shows how to connect your SU-1 and check/update firmware via your pc.

[ted_b]

1 minute ago, mikicasellas said:

 

Hey Ted,

 

I have 3 months without using my Microrendu, so if i understand well once i start listen to my system again do i have to pay $20 bucks to have it upgrade it?

 

I am lost here!

 

Best!

The $20 is for those who want 2.5 of the OS.  What do you get with 2.5?  Read the microRendu thread, but in summary you get a new sd card, support for the OS going forward (to, say, 2.6), the Linux-based DSD pop goes away, and several new DACs and DDCs are included in the native DSD certification program, including the SU-1 (i.e SU-1 now plays native rather than DoP).  BTW, if you end up getting the 2.2 firmware from Tim, the SU-1 will go to DSD512...but not if you use the microRendu at 2.3 OS, cuz DoP won't do DSD512, only native.

[ted_b]

Sorry, Lorywiv it only is intended for Holo Spring, I believe.  I don't think it works for other I2S DSD setups.

[ted_b]

HQP sees the SU-1, then the SU-1 sees the Matrix, so no, there is no workaround. 

 

Put pressure on Singxer to deliver a non-Holo driver and firmware.  The synergy between the SU-1 and Holo is due to the fact that 1) the firmware was done with a Spring dac in mind, and 2) the Spring drivers are used.  So, I would lobby SIngxer.  Tim is only their dealer in this case.

[ted_b]

I have decided to have Tim (Kitsune) do his own mod on my SU-1 as long as he has it for the stupid USB repair (arrived Monday but Tim is buried).  It's a mod that affects the internal ps so I will be able to write about it, and even if I do the LPS-1 (have the kit) thing I can then compare.  Anyway, one more data point. 

[ted_b]

4 hours ago, thyname said:

What about people who use a microrendu (w/ Roon), Singxer SU-1, and Holo Spring KTE? No computer (in the traditional sense) involved.

SU-1 needs to be firmware updated, and microRendu needs to be at 2.5 OS (SU-1 certification is in 2.5, not in 2.3).

[ted_b]

8 hours ago, scan80269 said:

You've also proven that the SU-1 with Spring USB driver can support DACs (with I2S input) other than the Spring itself, so the Spring USB driver is not just for the Spring DAC only.

Although somewhat coincidental (and same XMOS board) this driver may not work that way with too many dacs, especially non-XMOS ones.

[ted_b]

I just received my KTE SU-1 (sent it to Tim to have USB repaired, due to my rough handling, and had him upgrade the whole thing).  I hope to do a review on it once I get a feel for the sound after break in,. etc. 

 

Tim, feel free to comment here on what you upgraded, as I am less confident I can list them in order of significance.    The upgrades use the existing internal power supply,  Note: I also ordered his kit and will likely compare once I am 100% familiar with this upgrade.

 

Stay tuned.

[ted_b]

I am noticing that all these mods to the SU-1 seem to have immediate sq effect, all positive.  Are all you guys saying that there is no break-in for these new caps, regulators, etc?  That they immediately sound great?  I ask cuz this flies in the face of what I have experienced with any new mod or introduction of new parts in the signal path over my audio life.  Now I am not saying that you need to take a step back before you go two steps forward, but simply saying that there is a period of time where the real potential is not yet realized.  Kind like a new remodel job at home....you can clearly see the benefits but the place smells of paint for a few days (not the best analogy, sorry).

 

For example, my recently upgraded KTE SU-1.  The detail retrieval, speed, tautness and overall clarity is quite amazing, but there is an ever-decreasing bit of rawness or edginess that will undoubtedly recede to nothing over the next 100-150 hours or so.  It's always been this way, and yet I have not heard ONE EXAMPLE of that in these mod stories.  Weird.

[ted_b]

57 minutes ago, scan80269 said:

I don't think people are claiming no incremental SQ improvement with time for these mods, but the step-function jump in SQ immediately after one of these mods (especially the LPS-1 one) is anything but subtle, which is what people are inclined to report.

 

I'm not familiar with the break-in time with conductive polymer capacitors, or at least how these would compare with traditional aluminum electrolytic capacitors.  If folks are hearing incremental SQ step-ups after days or weeks, by all means post a follow-up to this thread.

 

One thing I know about the SU-1 is that the downstream side consumes barely over 0.5W of power, and hardly any component has perceptible heat, so the whole box runs quite cool and the time to reach thermal equilibrium should be a matter of minutes.  That should just about leave capacitor and cable break-in as the factors that can take a bit of time.

 

I'm not quite done with mods for my SU-1, and have only logged a few hours of post-mod listening so far.

 

Each of your points makes perfect sense.  And thanks for the other comments; yes a DDC like the Su-1 should have very little of the classic break-in that a component with an analog stage would likely have...my bad. Thx.

[ted_b]

I'm sorry but I find it irresponsible of posters to demand that the Singxer SU-1 go through all these mods mentioned before it is listenable!   The SU-1 is a fine DDC on its own, and gets debatably better via some of these mods.  But to tell a new user that the stock SU-1 is bright and won't get better without a mod, let alone ALL the mods, is just wrong IMHO.  And frankly, until you establish a stock baseline of sq, good luck enjoying the changes any or all the mods impart. ?

 

Horace28, IMHO, let the SU-1 play for 50-100 hours before establishing a good idea of what it will sound like going forward.  It has no analog section so the break-in is relatively minimal.

[ted_b]

Energy,

I gotta assume you did all this for some musical purpose.  Does the SU-1/your system sound any better/worse?

[ted_b]

Energy,

Thanks for the offer.  I have the dc kit and will install it this weekend, making it possible to compare my Kitusne-modded SU-1 to a mostly-unmodded (since Tim's mods are mostly internal ps related) SU-1 powered by the LPS-1.  Sam has offered to do his mod so I may try that too, later on.

 

Thx again.

[ted_b]

12 hours ago, Energy said:

@ted_b

No problem 

If you like it I have a good feeling you'll eventually go down the path of this regulator mod. It really does improve the sound quality almost like the improvement you hear switching from a stock SU-1 to the one that is powered by the LPS-1 (maybe 60%).

Energy, realize that my SU-1 is no longer stock, even though it's using the internal ps (until i do the kit change).  Tim's KTE mod replaces caps and the internal ps regulator FWIW.   But those changes are likely moot when I go dc-kit-and-LPS1.

[ted_b]

7 hours ago, Dev said:

Has anyone found it useful to add a ISO Regen or a SoTm tx-usb in front of the SU-1 ? I am wondering if it would bring anything useful to the table.

You;ll find many posts on the ISO Regen thread, including mine..where I wax poetic.   

[ted_b]

3 hours ago, nick77 said:

Guys can you confirm the Iso-Regen fits horizontal and still allows HDMI cable to fit SU-1? I dont care for the 90 degree look of the Iso-Regen.

Nope, mine does not.  I will post a pic once my Windows NAA pc is backed up to it and I use my second USPCB.

[ted_b]

I see you added about giving the caps some time (although you say "would have ran it 200 hrs", does this mean you wanted to but didn't? ).  That was going to be my point.  Patience.

[ted_b]

19 minutes ago, Horace28 said:

To anyone using the Regen devices, I would recommend removing it and listening without it to see whether it is really improving the SU-1. In my case it deteriorated the data stream

In what way exactly?  And which "Regen device" are you referring to?

[ted_b]

Tbooe, I assume you mean I-squared-S?  I only ask cuz all these crazy DIY modding parts, maybe you mean something else.

[ted_b]

Stephan,

Is it possible that the use of LT3045s in your setup (or wherever you heard them being used) cleaned up the power to the extent that the dac or other parts of the signal chain showed their thinness?  I mean, in what way would cleaning up power be a bad thing, unless like tube rolling, one wants some distortion and noise to offset an otherwise clinical presentation?  I am one who uses tubes (preamp and soon-to-be reviewed dac) to help balance what can be a clinical audio signal path in my system, but I am all for first cleaning up whatever is there...then using "spices and condiments" where necessary.  Maybe this makes no sense, I don't know, but I am willing to use LT3045s to get to the best electrical path, then work from there. 

Ted