sandyk Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Speedskater Now we are on the same page. Incidentally, the Input Z of many Analogue Power Amplifiers has dropped markedly in recent years due to the quest for a further improvement in S/N, as DACs etc. further improve their bandwidth and S/N capabilities. mansr is actually talking about 43M long stereo feeds IIRC. Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
mansr Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 mansr is actually talking about 43M long stereo feeds IIRC. Connected in series to double the badness. One channel is enough for measuring. Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Connected in series to double the badness. One channel is enough for measuring. The measurements are likely to be slightly different due to close proximity of both legs and imperfect screening between them.Probably close enough to make a point however, which is ??? They certainly don't apply to any normal system setup. Just as well they aren't being driven from many typical valve Pre-amplifiers, or heaven forbid, a Passive Preamp ! In the same vein of "Useless Information" ??? Speaker Cables. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
esldude Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Connected in series to double the badness. One channel is enough for measuring. Well you could record the result at the end of 43 meters of stereo badness to let people hear it. Of course we sort of know how that will go. Probably about as well as my 8th gen digital copy vs the original. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Probably about as well as my 8th gen digital copy vs the "original" And deservedly so ! Isn't it about time that you moved on from that poorly conceived (and received) thread ? What Mansr is doing here has no relation to a typical C.A. member's system. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
mansr Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 What Mansr is doing here has no relation to a typical C.A. member's system. Indeed it doesn't. I did it because I wanted to see how a really bad cable measured. Sometimes looking at extremes can be informative. Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Indeed it doesn't. I did it because I wanted to see how a really bad cable measured. Sometimes looking at extremes can be informative. Yes, that's also why I included the Speaker Wire graph. To think that some people even wire their speakers with 2 pair telephone cable ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Speedskater Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Speedskater.................................................. Incidentally, the Input Z of many Analogue Power Amplifiers has dropped markedly in recent years due to the quest for a further improvement in S/N, as DACs etc. further improve their bandwidth and S/N capabilities. .................................................... Regards Alex I didn't know that. Lower than 10k Ohm? What amps? For some strange reason Stereophile magazine does a test of outputs into a 600 Ohm load. I think that a 2k load would be more informative. Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I didn't know that. Lower than 10k Ohm? What amps?For some strange reason Stereophile magazine does a test of outputs into a 600 Ohm load. I think that a 2k load would be more informative. I am not across what the input Z of recent commercial amplifiers is now typically, but the trend has steadily gone down from 47K with earlier SS amplifiers in the 80s to 10K. Stereophile tests suggest that some amplifiers either are below 10K, or may benefit further from doing so with more recent preamp/DAC designs. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
gmgraves Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 What does this mean? If nothing else, it shows that differences between cables can be measured at least in some cases. All coax, no matter how cheap or how expensive has a certain amount of capacitance and inductance, and DC resistance per meter or foot or whatever, and all of these characteristics are additive. So at some length of coax, these characteristics are going to add up to be a major influence on the circuits the cables are connected to and the signals passed through them. What this test shows is that this influence is definitely not in the audio passband! George Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 All coax, no matter how cheap or how expensive has a certain amount of capacitance and inductance, and DC resistance per meter or foot or whatever, and all of these characteristics are additive. So at some length of coax, these characteristics are going to add up to be a major influence on the circuits the cables are connected to and the signals passed through them. What this test shows is that this influence is definitely not in the audio passband! George Hard line Objectivists detest being asked to give Subjective opinions, however I would suggest that even Mansr could hear the difference between this concoction ,and directly through a normal length interconnect of 1 or 2metres. You, on the other hand ,may not be able to do so as your brain is likely to prevent you from doing so due to your incredible amount of Expectation Bias !!! Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
gmgraves Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 GeorgeHard line Objectivists detest being asked to give Subjective opinions, however I would suggest that even Mansr could hear the difference between this concoction ,and directly through a normal length interconnect of 1 or 2metres. You, on the other hand ,may not be able to do so as your brain is likely to prevent you from doing so due to your incredible amount of Expectation Bias !!! Alex My ears are pretty good. I'm sure that if there is a difference, I'd hear it. But what Mansr's measurements don't show is what the chart you posted DOES show is that most popular coaxes show the same amount of loss over the entire audio passband and but a minute increase in loss at 30 KHz. Did Mansr Say that he heard a difference? Because if he did, I missed it. George Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Did Mansr Say that he heard a difference? Because if he did, I missed it. George Is English as written and spoken by Australians, THAT different to English as spoken and written by a typical U.S.A. citizen ? Was my post that unclear ? Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
gmgraves Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 George Is English as written and spoken by Australians, THAT different to English as spoken and written by a typical U.S.A. citizen ? Was my post that unclear ? Alex Uh huh. I have no idea what your point is. George Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Uh huh. I have no idea what your point is. however I would suggest that even Mansr could hear the difference between this concoction ,and directly through a normal length interconnect of 1 or 2metres. Nowhere did I state that he actually did. Perhaps Mansr could try this with suitably decent material and report back, unless he has concerns that he would lose any remaining credibility with the vast majority of members if he couldn't ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
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