Jump to content
IGNORED

Lampise your DSD.


Recommended Posts

For a good, natural sound with great presence, soundstage, timbral accuracy and naturalness, I highly recommend adding a tube-only amplification stage after your DAC with native, very high-rate DSD.

 

Here's my home-made Lampizator-like configuration (not exactly the same, of course):

 

- iFi iDSD Nano with DSD256 even through DoP on Mac (thanks to the iFi team for the free Mac OS X firmware + Driver upgrade).

 

- Single-Ended Triode Amplifier in simple triode configuration based on a Tubelab design and PCB, the most basic config: no volume (using the DAC volume or software volume), no choke, no motor run cap, no ultra-linear mode, no cathode-feedback mode.

 

- Totem Mites as speakers and Audirvana or HW Player as audiophile software player (BugHead for those who can).

 

iFi%20Nano%20%20SET%202_zpsx7aqxcs8.jpg

 

Another view:

 

iFi%20Nano%20%20SET_zpsh74yfjok.jpg

 

Set Tubes glowing:

 

SET%20Tubes%20Glow_zpsexak2rhk.jpg

 

Some of our listening impressions today:

 

- Great dynamics - guitar strings, percussions and drums generally, attacks

- Much presence, especially in the mid-range, enveloping sound

- A sense of flow, breathing

- Great separation

 

So, try adding tubes to your very high-rate native DSD setup and let us know what you think.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Works with PCM too.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Works with PCM too.

 

No doubt!

 

PCM and NOS PCM can sound very good on very well built PCM DACs as well.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to add that I am listening to the amp plugged into a dedicated line too.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have a look at the very simple NoDac project over on DIYAudio ... an input transformer might be a good LPF for the DAC :)

 

My own thread about the same principle over there is older :P (but there isn't much there compared to that one).

 

In fact, I had this idea once I understood the nature of DSD... way before I even bought my first native DSD DAC.

 

Another member there (Koon IIRC) did a much earlier implementation with FPGA and a simple filter. There's an Italian similar construction and a Japanese one as well.

 

So I may finally get to it as from this year, judging by their great progress.

 

For my own, I will like to implement a full tubed chain.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DIYAudio

 

Over there, in my SET Amp build thread, I am told that it should take around 100 hours for the tubes to be at their peak SQ, so we're still in for more surprises in store!

 

We've estimated this will take us around 2 weeks, so not next Sunday, but the Sunday after.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

an input transformer might be a good LPF for the DAC :)

 

Or tubes

 

:P :P :D :D

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good one YashN. Btw what do you mean OS firmware and driver upgrade?

Synology NAS (LPS) >UA ETHER REGEN (BG7TBL Master Clock) > MACMINI (Uptone MMK JS-2) > Auralic Aries 2.1 > (LPS-2) > AUDIO-GD DI20HE (BG7TBL Master Clock) (I2S OUT)LampizatOr GG /Meridian 808.3> Wavac PRT1 / Wavac EC300B >Tannoy Canterbury SE

 

HP Rig ++ >Woo WES/ > Stax SR-009, Audeze LCD2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another way to tackle this would be to add a tubed preamp for use with SS amps no?

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an Italian similar construction and a Japanese one as well.

 

Fortuitously, I came across the Japanese construction again today. It's in Japanese, but Google Translate can help.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an Italian similar construction and a Japanese one as well.

 

And here is the Italian one 'Un DSD Player Autocostruito' (direct link to the PDF).

 

Apparently, I can read Italian.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another way to tackle this would be to add a tubed preamp for use with SS amps no?

 

Some people do indeed do this. Here though, I believe what they want to do is provide some 'tube' flavour to their sound. So, fine, it's also a valid approach or goal.

 

However, if your goal or approach is to get Hi-Fidelity in the tube realm (before the term became pejorative), you are looking for less cringe-worthy distortion as with SS Amps, and a more natural and neutral sound. If in one step, you manage to get the free-flowing, effort-less, tube naturalness, and then you follow if with the wrong SS, which then constricts everything you just gained, you may not like it.

 

So with respect to this, to me it looks like the more natural pairing for my Tube amp would be to insert a Tube Pre-amp before it, which we'll have to do here since now there's no way to listen to our vinyl setup through the amp. I'll need pre-amp + RIAA EQ capabilities here.

 

DSD really is analogue, so the most natural pairing for it IMO is to be amplified through tubes. I specifically chose SET topology for aural quality, and apparently some of the magic occurs when pairing SET with Full-Range drivers.

 

I came across this book that I somehow convinced myself I need:

 

The Valve Wizard

book3.jpg

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My own thread about the same principle over there is older :P (but there isn't much there compared to that one).

 

In fact, I had this idea once I understood the nature of DSD... way before I even bought my first native DSD DAC.

 

Another member there (Koon IIRC) did a much earlier implementation with FPGA and a simple filter. There's an Italian similar construction and a Japanese one as well.

 

So I may finally get to it as from this year, judging by their great progress.

 

For my own, I will like to implement a full tubed chain.

 

It would be very reasonable to take the output of the DSC"x" I-V section and implement the analog filter/output buffer in tubes. That's why I'm separating the boards, else you could take the DSC1 boards and run wires from the I-V out to the new tube section.

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be very reasonable to take the output of the DSC"x" I-V section and implement the analog filter/output buffer in tubes. That's why I'm separating the boards, else you could take the DSC1 boards and run wires from the I-V out to the new tube section.

 

I have a donor board for the XMOS USB Receiver part, so I can re-use that and build on it. Actually, maybe building both types of circuit could be interesting so that I can make a comparison here in my system.

 

Spent a good time today researching electronics and listening to DSD on the SET Tube Amp.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

With:

 

- a new firmware upgrade for the iFi iDSD Nano where DoP DSD256 works flawlessly,

- the new Audirvana+ beta which does real-time upsampling of PCM to DSD256, also sounding fantastic (count HQ Player in that realm too),

- my SET Tube Amp and the various DIY pieces of equipment,

- three new albums from Superhirez (Sting, Marving Gaye, Soundgarden)

 

and the concomitant sublime sound we get is a nice reminder of why I toil so hard on SQ.

 

Yet, there's more to do!

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of the pics of Tubes glowing I tried to take with my small camera, playing with settings - I still need to learn how to do this correctly:

 

Tube%20lights%20B_zpsjaosic7a.jpg

 

Tube%20Lights%202%20B_zpsjgflvmzo.jpg

 

Tube%20Lights%204%20B_zpsojqloagr.jpg

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people do indeed do this. Here though, I believe what they want to do is provide some 'tube' flavour to their sound. So, fine, it's also a valid approach or goal.

 

However, if your goal or approach is to get Hi-Fidelity in the tube realm (before the term became pejorative), you are looking for less cringe-worthy distortion as with SS Amps, and a more natural and neutral sound. If in one step, you manage to get the free-flowing, effort-less, tube naturalness, and then you follow if with the wrong SS, which then constricts everything you just gained, you may not like it.

 

So with respect to this, to me it looks like the more natural pairing for my Tube amp would be to insert a Tube Pre-amp before it, which we'll have to do here since now there's no way to listen to our vinyl setup through the amp. I'll need pre-amp + RIAA EQ capabilities here.

 

DSD really is analogue, so the most natural pairing for it IMO is to be amplified through tubes. I specifically chose SET topology for aural quality, and apparently some of the magic occurs when pairing SET with Full-Range drivers.

 

I came across this book that I somehow convinced myself I need:

 

The Valve Wizard

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25261[/ATTACH]

 

Thank you YashN. Nice explanation.

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you YashN. Nice explanation.

 

Thanks Forehaven.

 

Looking at my description of Tube Amp advantages over SS, I forgot to mention circuit-simplicity.

 

I know this is a very important characteristic of SET amps, especially compared to some SS where the designers of the latter just chain along Opamps (because this is easy to do and that's how they were taught). In the end, this long string of Opamps in some designs (not all of course), are actually a very long set of transistors chained together, each component affecting the sound ever so slightly on its own, but it adds up greatly!

 

Contrast this approach with the simplicity of this schematic for my DIY SET Tube Amp as designed by George Anderson at Tubelab:

 

Simple_SE_Amp_Sch_11-08.jpg

 

Now think about the theoretical ideal amplifier (one channel): 'a wire with gain'.

 

Then ask yourself which of these two implementations is likely to be closer to the ideal: the simple circuit, or the severely more complex one with negative feedback and its string of opamps?

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good thinking! Another avenue of exploration is to look at transistors that have more tube like characteristics eg triode such as the Silicon Carbide/SIT/VFET classes of devices some of whose circuits can be amazingly simple. But that is just another way to do things-- there is much to like about the sound of tubes:)

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
Another avenue of exploration is to look at transistors that have more tube like characteristics eg triode such as the Silicon Carbide/SIT/VFET classes of devices some of whose circuits can be amazingly simple. But that is just another way to do things-- there is much to like about the sound of tubes:)

 

If the circuit simplicity can be preserved, then why not?

 

I think I read about equivalent circuits using JFets or something similar.

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Here are some more pics of my DIY Single-Ended Triode Tube Amp, which I took yesterday. Initially, I started with the iPhone 5 and was trying HDR pics, but the resolution is not too good.

 

These are from a small digital camera. They're still not satisfactory - it seems that when it comes to low-light shots, I am a total newbie about settings (ISO, Shutter Speed, etc...).

 

Listened to The Marvin Gaye Collection in DSD64 through the iFi iDSD Nano into it and it was awesome.

 

SET%201_zpsiihuddbb.jpg

 

SET%202_zps5x82gkg2.jpg

 

SET%203_zpsbl7i5jkg.jpg

 

SET%204_zpsc4kfto9n.jpg

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
must be nice having the skills to make that..hope it sounds as good as it looks

Good luck

 

Thanks Dave.

 

It sounds every bit as good as it looks: there are some little wrinkles here and there, but overall, I wanted to hear for myself, in my environment what a Tube Amp sounded like. I specifically chose the SET topology.

 

It was my first major metal-work as well.

 

The internals were wired up by myself but at the core of it is a PCB and a design by George Anderson of Tubelab - there's a dedicated sub-sub-forum on diyaudio in the Vendor sub-forum where it is essential to go to get help on this build since the information on the site is incomplete as someone else than George has control over it.

 

So now I know what a Tube amp does on dynamics and attack transients that my SS amp can't, even when the latter has an order of magnitude of Power (85 vs 8/ch).

 

I also know what the SET mid-range was all about. That was another revelation.

 

High-rate DSD through it is yet another level in musical enjoyment.

 

We had some friends over last week-end, a couple. My friend's wife is also my girlfriend's singing teacher.

 

I made her listen to songs she knows really well and she loved it. About a song on an album she wrote with her family (album on which my girlfriend did backing vocals), her brother on the lead vocal. This is what she said:

 

"I would have loved to have all my family share that listening experience right now."

 

Sounds like we're on the right track ;)

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...