ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

8 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

 

 

I hoped that the line array would help for even bass response but this is even better then i would have ever guessed. and the treble is even steven.

 

the response between 100hz to 200hz is also very impressive.

 

1 month in, how do you like the speakers? end game?

 

I will make some measurements in my living room this week - that small room is less than ideal (but I have my computer there, and no laptop available - will move my computer when I have some time).

One month in, I am still in love with the speakers, just trying to figure out the best placement/listening position.  The level of resolution is really outstanding, and they are very "neutral" (uncolored). Are they "end game" speakers for me ? The size is a real issue, but they bring a lot to the table, so we'll see...

[yogibear]

On 4/3/2022 at 2:14 AM, hopkins said:

I finally measured the speakers (open baffle), but could only do this in my office, not living room - the room is much smaller. Microphone was placed roughly 1M away, centered with respect to the baffle (horizontally and vertically).

 

 

Nothing short of incredible….

 

Please also take measurements at your listening position.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Here are measurements in my living room, taken from a distance of 1,8 meters, which is a little close but this is how I like to listen, to keep the volume down. I put a blanket on the back window as I do not have curtains yet, but it makes little difference.

 

Room size is roughly 11 meters long x 4 meters wide x 2.5 meters high, so volume is 110 m3

 

 

Frequency response with 1/6 smoothing:

 

 

With 1/24 smoothing

 

 

RT60 (the room is pretty bare)

 

 

Spectogram

 

 

To be clear, the frequency response looks better if the OB are kept pretty far from the walls. So in smaller rooms you will have to move your listening position up close...

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

P.S. contrary to the first graph I posted yesterday, this is a measurement of both speakers. The first graph was a single speaker, so it is normal that the frequency response is flatter. With the microphone centered between the two speakers you get a gently downward sloping curve. I could try another measurement with the speakers toed-in, but I assume we'll get something in between the two graphs.

[murphythecat87]

18 minutes ago, hopkins said:

P.S. contrary to the first graph I posted yesterday, this is a measurement of both speakers. The first graph was a single speaker, so it is normal that the frequency response is flatter. With the microphone centered between the two speakers you get a gently downward sloping curve. I could try another measurement with the speakers toed-in, but I assume we'll get something in between the two graphs.

measurements looks excellent tbh. enjoy!!!

 

even a sub seem no necessary ( not surprising as you have 4 8" on each side which equals to about a 13" woofer?

[murphythecat87]

once my speakers are done, ill post it here. Im sure it will make you feel better about the size of your speakers Hopkins :)

 

[yogibear]

You are getting great low end because of the baffle sizes only, so enjoy them. The frequency response is all one would desire from his setup irrespective of any design….

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

P. S. ECD assembled some PowerDAC-S and they are now available on their website. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

9 hours ago, hopkins said:

P. S. ECD assembled some PowerDAC-S and they are now available on their website. 

 

Send by ECD today:

[Rexp]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:33 AM, hopkins said:

P.S. contrary to the first graph I posted yesterday, this is a measurement of both speakers. The first graph was a single speaker, so it is normal that the frequency response is flatter. With the microphone centered between the two speakers you get a gently downward sloping curve. I could try another measurement with the speakers toed-in, but I assume we'll get something in between the two graphs.

Some recording tips you may find interesting:

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

Some recording tips you may find interesting:

 

 

Thanks, but I use a miniDSP UMIK-1 which is a measurement microphone - this is what should be used for the purpose of speaker measurement, not a conventional microphone. The UMIK-1 is simply connected to my PC and running REW.

 

The issue I had with the above measurement, which was pointed out by a "specialist" on another forum, is that I measured both speakers at the same time and did not have the microphone exactly centered between the speakers. Since it is very difficult to center the microphone precisely (milimmeters count!) he recommends instead measuring each channel seperately, then averging the response. The first measurement I showed which I took in a smaller room, from a 1 meter distance, was of one speaker only, and the frequency response is flatter. I am not going to bother taking more measurements now, but may do so later on after I have furnished my living room.

[Rexp]

18 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Thanks, but I use a miniDSP UMIK-1 which is a measurement microphone - this is what should be used for the purpose of speaker measurement, not a conventional microphone. The UMIK-1 is simply connected to my PC and running REW.

 

The issue I had with the above measurement, which was pointed out by a "specialist" on another forum, is that I measured both speakers at the same time and did not have the microphone exactly centered between the speakers. Since it is very difficult to center the microphone precisely (milimmeters count!) he recommends instead measuring each channel seperately, then averging the response. The first measurement I showed which I took in a smaller room, from a 1 meter distance, was of one speaker only, and the frequency response is flatter. I am not going to bother taking more measurements now, but may do so later on after I have furnished my living room.

Sorry to confuse, I meant for when you record the music playback of your system. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

45 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Sorry to confuse, I meant for when you record the music playback of your system. 

 

OK, for that an external mic would be beneficial! 

[bodiebill]

On 4/7/2022 at 9:58 AM, hopkins said:

 

Thanks, but I use a miniDSP UMIK-1 which is a measurement microphone - this is what should be used for the purpose of speaker measurement, not a conventional microphone. The UMIK-1 is simply connected to my PC and running REW.

 

The issue I had with the above measurement, which was pointed out by a "specialist" on another forum, is that I measured both speakers at the same time and did not have the microphone exactly centered between the speakers. Since it is very difficult to center the microphone precisely (milimmeters count!) he recommends instead measuring each channel seperately, then averging the response. The first measurement I showed which I took in a smaller room, from a 1 meter distance, was of one speaker only, and the frequency response is flatter. I am not going to bother taking more measurements now, but may do so later on after I have furnished my living room.

 

Fwiiw: Acourate has free measurement SW tool that includes a mic alignment process to get both speakers at the same distance without measuring the distance. Just move the microphone until it shows an error of 0 (zero) samples: https://www.audiovero.de/en/downloads.php 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I have been using the powerDAC-S with headphones as well lately. I gave my Beyerdynamic headphones to one of my children and have explored a few other models. I just recently got the Sennheiser HD6XX from Massdrop. I had a HD650 for many years and enjoy this headhpone.  I also have a Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Black which has grown on me - super comfortable and nice sound.

 

The S model will probably drive most headphones easily. 

 

Here are the Senns with the adapters provided by ECD. 

 

 

It is interesting to find that the sound quality between speakers and headphones is now very close. They are two very different xperiences, but I would say that the powerDAC-S with the open baffle speakers does not really sacrifice on detail/resolution vis à vis headphones -  provided your room acoustics are not a complete mess. Listening nearfield with speakers is in fact  superior to headphone listening, IMO.  Previously, with the powerDAC-R, headphone listening provided better quality than usiing the R model with an external amplifier and speakers (though I did not have the open baffles at the time).

[fas42]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

It is interesting to find that the sound quality between speakers and headphones is now very close. They are two very different xperiences, but I would say that the powerDAC-S with the open baffle speakers does not really sacrifice on detail/resolution vis à vis headphones -  provided your room acoustics are not a complete mess. Listening nearfield with speakers is in fact  superior to headphone listening, IMO.  Previously, with the powerDAC-R, headphone listening provided better quality than usiing the R model with an external amplifier and speakers (though I did not have the open baffles at the time).

 

Interesting that you hear this ... my experience has been that capable loudspeaker replay is always superior as a listening environment, with no gains using headphones.The one time I had top notch headphones to play with for awhile, I lost interest in using them after about 5 minutes or so; because the in room "vibe" was far more satisfying.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

4 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Interesting that you hear this ... my experience has been that capable loudspeaker replay is always superior as a listening environment, with no gains using headphones.The one time I had top notch headphones to play with for awhile, I lost interest in using them after about 5 minutes or so; because the in room "vibe" was far more satisfying.

 

There are other reasons (not adressed here) that people may prefer one versus the other.

I am not talking about headphones versus speakers in a general sense but specifically relating to the powerDAC-R and powerDAC-S.

 

- powerDAC-R: requires additional external amplifier for speakers. Headphones connected directly to the powerDAC-R provide superior resolution, less distortion

 

I had mentioned this in the conclusion of my review of the powerDAC-R

 

 

- powerDAC-S: does not require additional external amplifier for speakers. Resolution/distortion is similar whether using open-baffles or headphones as both are directly connected to the powerDAC-S.

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Next development in audio that I would like to see: a reasonably priced laser turntable with a toslink output to connect it to the powerDAC-S 🤩

I don't know if it makes any sense, but it sounds cool.

 

 

[Norton]

40 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Next development in audio that I would like to see: a reasonably priced laser turntable with a toslink output to connect it to the powerDAC-S 🤩

I don't know if it makes any sense, but it sounds cool.

 

 

The ELP laser turntable is top of my “like to try“ list.  But it’s an analogue signal path, you’d need a suitable ADC to get Toslink output 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Just now, Norton said:

The ELP laser turntable is top of my “like to try“ list.  But it’s a purely analogue device, you’d need a suitable ADC to get Toslink output 

 

Yes, I saw that the ELP model has a phono + line out. It is extremly expensive. That japanese company patented the device and no one else makes it. 

I'll get back to the topic of analog versus digital as I think the powerDAC-S (+open baffle) somewhat changes things...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Concerning the open baffles, they really require careful placement to optimize the sound. 

 

My living room is long, but the ceiling is not very high (2.5 meters, standard for new constructions). I felt like I was experiencing too much reverberations, and it was muddiyng the sound (when not listening very close to the speakers). 

 

I had the idea, of testing acoustic panels on the ceiling.

 

 

The sound quality improvement is significant. Everything is more defined. Now, my main problem is to stop listening and not remain glued to my chair all the time :)

 

I have decided to invest in proper ceiling panels to cover my listening area in the living room (roughly 1/3 of the ceiling). 

 

The open baffle speakers are définitely hear to stay!

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

By the way my evaluation of some of the music I mentioned in a previous post has changed as I have played around with the placement. For example, I think I mentioned that one of  Marvin Gaye's, album sounded  a little disappointing. This is no longer the case now and everything sounds great, with deep bass, clear mods and highs. 

 

The level of realism of the system is really impressive. There is, absolutely no way of going back to a conventional system. The issues of source quality which occupies a lot of space here on AudiophileStyle now seems like a bad memory, and there is no desire to tweak anything, only to sit back and enjoy music. Highly recommended! 😁

[yogibear]

5 minutes ago, hopkins said:

By the way my evaluation of some of the music I mentioned in a previous post has changed as I have played around with the placement. For example, I think I mentioned that one of  Marvin Gaye's, album sounded  a little disappointing. This is no longer the case now and everything sounds great, with deep bass, clear mods and highs. 

 

The level of realism of the system is really impressive. There is, absolutely no way of going back to a conventional system. The issues of source quality which occupies a lot of space here on AudiophileStyle now seems like a bad memory, and there is no desire to tweak anything, only to sit back and enjoy music. Highly recommended! 😁

Congrats ! You are a lucky audiophile now !

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

21 minutes ago, yogibear said:

Congrats ! You are a lucky audiophile now !

 

It is a very satisfying system, great for listening to all types of music and recordings, doubling as a headphone amp. 

 

Also, it is relatively cheap when compared to what high end hi-fi systems usually command, especially when considering that you don't need more than a basic PC to get great sound. 

 

For people who do not have the space for these large open baffles, it would be great to have some other speaker recommendations. 

 

In the coming weeks I will have some people over to audition the system. 

[murphythecat87]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

 

It is a very satisfying system, great for listening to all types of music and recordings, doubling as a headphone amp. 

 

Also, it is relatively cheap when compared to what high end hi-fi systems usually command, especially when considering that you don't need more than a basic PC to get great sound. 

 

For people who do not have the space for these large open baffles, it would be great to have some other speaker recommendations. 

 

In the coming weeks I will have some people over to audition the system. 

enjoy!

theres very few piece of equipment i really wants, and the powerdac is def one of the most unique audio product ive ever seen built by a mad genius:)

 

Im building a huge 3 way, 95db efficient, 1st order serie crossover.

classic layout: 15" woofer, 6.5" paper mid and planar up top. Crossover is designed by me and Thorsten Loesch so it should be at least decent!

 

I think 95db could work with your 4 WPC. but yeah, those 4 watts are very limiting. id either go the wideband + subwoofer connect via hi-pass connection, FAST systems or classic hi-eff 3 way