ECdesigns

[nattflax]

I want to replicate the findings of Norton and Hopkins.  In fact, this thread made me take the plunge and buy the UPL 16.  I already was hooked on the R2R-technology from the start and I was searching for a Dac that was not in the unobtainium category. John Brown's thread on DiyAudio made me think that the MOS 16 was the real deal.

 

As noted in this thread the MOS 16 and UPL 16 should be considered as one piece. I bought the MOS 16 first and my first impressions was that it presents a detailed and fluid sound possibly a bit rounded and a lack of bite. Using my CD-player as a source I was a little bit sad that  Krafwerk's Computer World sounded like it was recorded on cassette tape. Oh well, these things happens when you upgrade, sometimes a recording just do not measure up very well.

 

I ordered the UPL for  the heck of it.  I am also fond of quirky technology that does not follow the common norm on how things should be. Yesterday, I picked up the package from the post office, and I hurried to get home. I found a USB-pendrive that was lying around in my apartment. Ripped my Computer World CD. Plugged the pendrive in to the UPL and pressed play on the remote. 

 

After a couple of bars of Kraftwerk's analog goodness, I felt yes! This is what they talked about in that thread. This player is the real deal too!  Like someone mentioned previously it is so easy lean towards hyperbole in audio. Suffice it to say, I am very pleased with the MOS 16 and UPL 16 combination. My experience is very much what is described in this thread.

 

My system is Stax 3100 "Earspeakers" plus amp. Lavardin Reference IsX  and Carlsson/Sonab OA-4 MK II speakers.

 

No affilitation with EC Designs.

[nattflax]

Thank you!

[nattflax]

I am  fairly new to digital audio. I am also Linux user and for future reference it may be helpful to write about what software I am using to rip and manage files.

 

There are a lot of open source software for ripping and manage music. I thought it would be good to write a few posts about which software that is available in the FOSS (Free and Open Source) world.

 

I am very keen on the UNIX philosophy that a program should do only thing and do it well. I may well contradict myself in the listed software below but it is also about the UX-experience. Complexity is ok if the software is intuitively to use.

 

Using UPL 16 as a player I probably will use a couple of USB pendrives and copy directories from my main production machine. I am using vanilla Ubuntu on my main production machine software should be easily available.

 

The problems that needs to be solved are:

1. Ripping  CD or converting existing files to .wav
2.  Tagging and handling files
3. Get a good overview of my digital music collection (This is the one for me. I have used Volumio and a RasberryPi as a streaming solution before, but I swtiched back to playing discs quite fast. I never understood if Volumio added new directories or not. In my view it was a little bit of hit or miss all the time. I was weary of lack of overview in Volumio. Although I liked the RaspberriPi and the Digi+ hat as a unit very much.)
4. Copying directories to a pendrive or making a playlist directory and copy  it to a pendrive.
5. Add 00-99 to the directories in the pendrive. (Could probably be solved with a bash-script)

 

Software that I have started to use or intend to use in the near future:

• ripperX, a basic and simple CD-ripper. Uses CDDB for metadata. Put the CD in the tray and a few clicks your are on your way.
• abcde Command Line Music CD Ripping for Linux. Highly configurable.  I have yet to try it out. Author offers ready made config-files for different use cases.
• puddletag (MP3tag for Linux) Seems like a good Tagging editor and more. 
• Beets a open source and multi platform software for manage a music collection. Beets seems to be very powerful with many add-ons and the ability to write your own using python. Manipulating metadata, transcoding and manage replay gain to name a few functions.  Uses the CLI and GUI.  Beets could be usefor for copying directories hopefully overwiev my music collection via CLI

[nattflax]

A little update in the Linux land of ripping Cd:s and transcoding flac files to .wav.  I have already mentioned ripperX for ripping Cd:s. The application works perfect and gets the job done. Soundconverter has a similiar approach (it is a GUI on top of Gstreamer) a few straightforward settings and press the "Convert button" and off you go transcoding flac-files. Brilliant!

 

Next I will try some music management software to get an overview of my music collection. I think I will try Data Crow and GCstar in order to see what they have to offer. Ease of of use and a export to HTML (PDF would work too) is what I am looking for.

 

I am doing all the conversion on my desktop computer and my audio gear is placed in another room. The easy and boring way of keeping track of the metadata is to export a file (HTML /PDF) to the USB-pendrive and then  copy it to my laptop. A more fun solution would involve a RaspberriPi.

 

 I have RaspberriPi somewhere, and there must be a easy way to convert it to a some kind of webserver over  WiFi to present HTML-pages with metadata of the albums stored in the USB pendrive.  Any suggestions or pointers on this matter (or any matter) is highly welcome! Preferably with a permissive license such as GPL, MIT or similar.

 

Cheers!

 

[nattflax]

19 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Did you mean that? LOL. 

Actually, putting a needle on the record, plop a silver disc in to a player is much more easy than fiddeling around with digital files and labelling different directories onto an USB-pendrive. Don't get me wrong I love my MOS/UPL combination. The quality of sound is sublime. However, I can not deny with a straight face that it is not  an inconvenient operation.

 

Edit: Mind you that the files has to be .wav without the .info file otherwise the player goes bananas.  Using Linux it is somewhat difficult to find players that supports a Microsoft proprietary format.  Weird innit? 

[nattflax]

@bodiebill Would you mind sharing how you got the upl remote software to work?  I tried to install the appimage on Linux and it required a ton of dependencies to be downloaded and it still did not work. This is really odd because an appimage should work out of the box as it is its own iso-image with all dependencies (should be) included.

 

Thanks in advance!

[nattflax]

@bodiebill Thanks for your swift reply.  Switching (back) to Windows or OS X is not an option for me because of privacy reasons and pure meh. I will give it a go again and try to install the software, and contact ECD if I don't manage to get the software up and running.  Linux users are used to be left to their own devices (pun intended).

 

On a completely different note, someone in this thread recommended the Gentooplayer as audio distro for a RaspberryPi. I can't remember who it was. Nevertheless, Gentooplayer is a fantastic piece of software that does many things better than the big ones out there (Trying not to look at you Volumio). Thank you very much for the recommendation!

 

[nattflax]

This thread is extremely useful. I have learned so much about digital audio lurking this thread, being a vinyl guy for the most part -- apologies for the heresy. 

 

I want to share my workflow converting .flac to .wav. I own the ~ 2 year old "legacy" products MOS16 and UPL16 and they only accept files with 16 bits bit depth. 

 

Hsopefully my workflow will be useful for user of the newer models as I have found that .wav-dowloads from for instance Bandcamp can be a little bit iffy. Usually I download the .flac-file and scrub the metadata and then convert it to .wav. 

 

For .flac-files I use Puddletag to scrub the meta data (ctrl-e to delete icons/art work and ctrl-r to scrub the rest of the meta data and then hit save)

 

I found this script (link below) for sox to be capable using the command line converting to different audio formats. The script works for Linux and Mac. One thing I found to be very nifty indeed is that the output is piped to parallell-application which uses all the available cores in your computer to convert the files.

 

find . -name "*.wav" -print0 \
  | parallel -0 --eta \
      "mkdir -p {//}/sox-out ; \
       mkdir -p {//}/sox-out/logs ; \
       sox --show-progress \
         --guard {} \
         -b 16 \
         -t wav \
         -C 0 \
         {//}/sox-out/{/.}.wav \
         rate -v 48k \
         dither -s \
         2>&1 \
           | tee {//}/sox-out/logs/{/.}.sox.log"

 

https://notes.maxie.xyz/audio/downsample-audio-with-sox.html#downsample-with-sox

 

Cheers!

 

Nattflax

[nattflax]

1 hour ago, Jacob said:

:):) once you wrote "script" .. my eyes puzzled ... and i needed a smoke...😉

 

So this is how i do it - 

Tidal-GUI for direct file downloading from Tidal.

Freeac - audio converter for batch Flac to Wav.

Bulk Rename Utility - for setting the files name correctly and giving numbers.

Fixing the Folder name.

 

ye it took me some time at first , now it is easy :)

 

 

 

The command line is your friend and you shouldn't be afraid of it :) 

 

Thanks for sharing your workflow. The freeac application looks very promising. Thanks a lot!  I tend to convert one album at time and then re-discover my cd/digital collection.

[nattflax]

How many reviewers are there out there which has some credibility and does dac reviews?  The only one I can think of is Zero Fidelity, but to the best of my knowledge Shaun does not take on dacs for review.

 

 Z reviews maybe, but he has put out some glorified reviews on products that were ok. In his defence he usually does not review expensive (but good) products. However, a question mark where he's putting his mouth, because he makes reviews for a living. He has also expressed numerous times that he think it is hard to hear differences in dacs.

 

John Darko has said that his channel should be regarded as entertainment. He likes to hear differences in expensive usb-cables too. 

 

[nattflax]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Then he is a good candidate for a future PowerDAC review :) 

Absolutely, Z reviews is not bad. I have discovered a couple of gems watching his channel.  Given that the  future price of the PowerDac fits the scope of Z reviews' channel.

[nattflax]

12 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

That's only because there are differences in USB cables to be heard.

Ah, do you postulate if I buy an expensive cable I will hear a difference?

[nattflax]

12 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Bad enough that these are video reviews.

 

Matt

Taste is obviously individual. Although he is still rough around the edges which is probably his style. I found some gems watching his channel and I can't slag Z reviews off for that.

[nattflax]

1 minute ago, hopkins said:

 

There are many other threads about USB cables, so maybe we don't need to reopen that can of worms here :) 

 

 

Yes I know cables are a controversial topic. Mind you I did not open the can, nor did I have the intent to troll a conversation about the topic. In my first post I implied my opinion about a reviewer whom likes to hear differences in expensive usb-cables. 

 

Cheers!

[nattflax]

Just now, matthias said:

 

Nothing against Z reviews.

My point is that I dislike video reviews for several reasons.

 

Matt

Ok, that is cool too :)

[nattflax]

8 hours ago, Allan F said:

You may or you may not. Price is no guarantee of superior SQ, but USB cables do not all sound the same. OTOH, expectation bias works both ways. If you do not believe that there are differences to be heard, there is a strong likelihood that you will not hear them, even if they exist.

As mentioned previously by me and other interlocutors in this thread, cables are a controversial topic. I don't want to start a discussion about the topic, nor to troll a discussion about the subject matter. Especially not in this fine thread. I think you may have misread me when I implied my opinion about a reviewer whom likes to hear differences in expensive  usb-cables. Stay safe!

 

Cheers!

[nattflax]

Just my  2 öre on the Stax topic. My MOS 16/ UPL 16 mates very well with the Stax SRS-3100 combo (L300 headphones + amp). Stax headphones allows you to listen through the music and hear every detail, and they scale up  exceptionally well to what is delivered to them from the MOS/UPL combo.

 

I think @hopkins should bring his gear to the store, or borrow a pair of Stax headphones and amp and spend some time with them at home. As always taste is individual and electrostatic headphones has a distinct sound which is perhaps not for everyone. On the other hand there are tons of good headphones out on the market.

[nattflax]

15 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

I wonder whether ECD will come out with another headphone solution or not - not very clear at this point.

I find it extremely difficult reading up on a good headphone amp. Normally, I am quite good att reading up on components to find out if they are worthy an audition.  My main criteria is that an amp should be able to drive and make a Sennheiser HD 6XX plus a  Beyerdynamic T880 600Ohm sound good. When it comes to headphone amps my head starts to ache. In my research so far I've found a Canadian boutique OTL valve amp that may fit the bill. Unfortunately, it is 1 800 USD and an audition is next to impossible.

 

This brings me to EcDesigns response to Mathias at diyaudio.com about being able to drive headphone with their new kit.

Quote

 

"Q:Would it make sense to launch a one-box-solution (DAPI and FractalDAC in one case)?

A:Yes, we plan to offer an affordable medium power entry level version that is primarily intended to be used with (pre) amps but is powerful enough to directly drive 32 ... 600 Ohm headphones. Prototype is already up and running and is being thoroughly tested."

 

 

Still quite vague, but probably worth waiting for if the new kit is able to drive 600 Ohm headphones properly. Their new proposition will probably be less than 1800 USD.

[nattflax]

I have been reading the blog posts about the new DAC's from EC Designs. I find the information provided somewhat confusing. I don't understand why EC Designs can't explain in plain language their upcoming products, and then explain how playing or streaming is performed within the 'EC Designs-ecosystem' (I couldn't make up a better term) . 

 

I jotted down some comments/ thoughts on what information I derived from the blog, and what I found to be lacking or missing.

 

1. It's a dac that comes in two versions, with x features/ quirks for best possible audio quality. 

 

*One version is a traditional Dac with fixed output or variable output for a traditional HIFI-system The variable output is used to drive common headphones on the market.  [How to drive headphones is not explained in clear and concise manner on the website, merely that it is possible].

 

*The second version is used to drive speakers directly from source. The DAC is used as a power amplifier, thus mitigation sound degradation from a pre-amplifier used in traditional HIFI-systems with separates or an integrated amplifier.

2. Oh, that is cool. But wait what only Toslink?  How do I connect my xyz?

 

3. Explain the 'EC Designs-ecosystem' and what audio formats are supported and how they transmitted to the DAC. Especially, if there are new versions of UPL/ETL planned, or maybe something else? Yes, there is some information about this, but the blog makes a u-turn and starts to talk about the DAPI-interface. Is the DAPI a separate gadget or a feature in the DAC's? I don't know.

 

4. This is were I want to choose to read more technical stuff. Not first and not last either. Read our technical write-ups here. Read about our views on sound reproduction here.

 

5. Oh, you want specs? Read them below.

[nattflax]

Thank you @hopkins for your thorough and well-versed reply. It really helps me with my thought process, and understanding what ECD really is developing. 

 

Electro-engineering is quite hard to grasp for a novice like me. Thus, my plea for a more plainly written description first and then a "technical description" (for idiots like me), and last a real technical description aimed at engineers and alike.

 

Basically what you are saying and the information in the blog post from ECD is that usability has been improved through their own technical development without diverting from the toslink interface. Perhaps this is even a new "paradigm" in regards to their previous trade-off between usability/file formats and best possible sound quality. The new vertical design may indicate that they intend to ditch the UPL/ETL concept.

 

Although, the new technical development leaves a question mark how it will affect sound quality. Obviously, sound quality will not be bad.  Hopefully it is equal or better (when the new-product-dust settles) compared to previous products. From the blog I infer that technical developments is not a trade-off bewtween sound quality and usability. You are adopting a more wait-and-see approach.

 

My understanding of ECD as a company, is that they give a great deal of thought, and has the technical knowledge to mitigate adverse effects of high frequency noise and (intermodular) distortion on sound quality. This is what peaked my interest for ECD.

 

 

Quote

 [The]ECD "Ecosystem" will initially consist, from what I understand, of the PowerDAC and possibly a small converter for those who don't have a source with Toslink output.

This is great news for those who wish to use a usb-ouput from a computer or a Raspberri Pi with digital outputs. And possibly multiple sources through a splitter, or multiple inputs in the higher tier Power-S version.

 

Quote

\...\The DAPI is the term they use to refer to this "decoding/re-clocking" process. It is part of the DAC.

 

With your wording I understand that this is real technical development, as in lowering jitter by separating the data and clock stream in the toslink interface e.g. asynchronus-usb. Therefore lower the noise injected to the dac. Furthermore there is nifty low-level programming to determine sample rate and frequency in the data stream.

 

This also opens up the possibility to be more format agnostic. I love my MOS 16/UPL combo.The cleaning and washing my digital library when I want to play a new digital album is an endearing quirk. But I wouldn't mind copying some FLAC-files to a usb-thumbbdrive, or set up a streaming solution with a Raspberri-Pi. :)

 

Quote

The parallel data output by this micro-controller has a very low-bandwidth - allowing for less "noise" (from the micro-controller, for example) to travel along with the data and spread into the DAC.

This is excellent. From what I understand noise reduction/suppression is crucial for digital to analog sound reproduction.

 

[nattflax]

21 hours ago, szczemirek said:

Snakeoil don't see a dac.

The latest EC-designs use toslink as a interface and no OS will be able "to see" the dac. Are you sure that a signal is sent to the correct output i.e. check your settings in the OS. 

 

The Snakeoil OS wiki/forum seems to have a well of information. I suggest you'll try troubleshooting there first. If you are using an older DAC with usb-conncection. USB is built in the Linux kernel and the OS should "see" the dac. Sometimes you will need to mount a USB-device. You are in luck because SOS is Ubuntu-based and there is a ton of help out there. Google is your friend here. Check SOS wiki/forums first though. Good Luck!