ECdesigns

[Superdad]

28 minutes ago, Norton said:

...normally you have to spend a lot more for this level of inconvenience in hifi.

 

Did you mean that? LOL. 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Could be a defect in the ISO Regen. Or maybe you "burned" something in the ISO Regen, and it is outputting 6v or more.

Really not possible based on the design. Thousands of USB REGENs and ISO REGENs in the field, and while other types of failures are possible, we have NEVER had a unit put out higher than expected VBUS.  If the 1A regulator we dedicate to 5VBUS somehow fails, it won’t pass any voltage.

[Superdad]

23 hours ago, hopkins said:

Good thing the ISO Regen was not plugged in at the time!

 

Actually the ISO REGEN would have completely protected his DAC. 
 

VBUS to the ISO REGEN’s input side goes only to an LT3042 regulator dedicated to providing 3.3V to the upstream side of the Silanna high-speed galvanic isolator we use.  That power never crosses the moat.  All critical downstream side power (to run downstream side of isolator, hub chip, Crystek 575 clock, etc.) is regulated by 4 other LT3042s which are fed from external DC source—as is the 1A TI TPS7A4700 we dedicate to producing clean 5VBUS for DACs that need it.

 

Certainly the VBUS input of the ISO REGEN does not expect 12V, but that is within an LT3042’s input range and since the current draw of the upstream side of the isolator is only about 20mA, even the large drop from 12V to 3.3V would not generate anywhere near enough heat to bother the regulator. 
So even the ISO REGEN would not have been harmed. 

[Superdad]

How do folks in the USA purchase EC Designs components?  Their web shop does not offer selection of shipping to here in the states.  Also, what is the lead time presently? It is not clear to me.

Thanks,

—Alex C.

[Superdad]

 

15 hours ago, hopkins said:

AFAIK they are not shipping outside the EU for the time being, but you should contact them about this.

 

Wow, really?  For some reason I thought that several users here are in the US.

 

12 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Hi Alex, Yes best to check with John Brown I’m sure they would accommodate you. 
 

If not maybe a contact in Europe could purchase for you. I received my U192 and Fractal DAC in a week or so. Regarding US Power supplies you would only need to supply 5V 1a to the DAC through a USB B connector and similarly the U192 takes 5V from the USB source Cable.  Not sure how the USB transport is powered if you wanted that too.  

 

Thanks. Guess I will write to Mr. Brown.  Prices are very reasonable and the design is interesting.  Am only interested in the DAC and the USB>EletroTOS converter, not the USB stick player.

 

One question I have is what happens when you feed the U192 24/192 PCM--since the DAC itself only goes to 24/96.  I know that at lower rates it is all NOS, but is there some processing that downsamples when higher than 24/96 is fed?

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Huubster said:

I experienced this on my streamer and the UPL, both 'play' the files, but no sound at all

 

I thought there was something wrong with the files or something went wrong during the copying, until I realised I was trying to play 192khz files..

 

So then what is the point of the making it the U192–if the DAC it is designed to feed only accepts rates to 96KHz? 

(And I hope nobody suggests it is so that the U192 can be used as a USB>TOSlink converted with other DACs at 192KHz. )

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, tapatrick said:

The XMOS module in the U192 probably handles up to 192KHz by default. Honestly this hasn't bothered me as the SQ is so satisfying but if you have a library of higher res music then that would be a party stopper.

 

Thanks. (BTW, stock XMOS code goes to 384 these days.) I do have some material at 192, but really I am just trying to understand the capabilities and function of the pieces together before I make the purchase.

 

5 hours ago, tapatrick said:

PS the U192 using toslink into my PS Audio DAC sounds superb...  

 

Now that is interesting and brings to mind a different question: Will the U192 accept DSD64 and pass that out via Toslink to a DAC? (Sorry if this is a dumb question; I just woke up and my brain is not remembering if DSD can even be handled by Toslink in general.)

I do have a library of DSD64 albums that I would not want to be cut off from. Could see keeping a separate DAC just for DSD and swapping Toslink cable in place of ElectoTOS when needed.

[Superdad]

46 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

...either way round with the combo you can have your cake and eat it...

 

I'm trying to watch my calories you guys are talking about cake. Sheesh! 

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, Ben75 said:

@Superdad: Did you purchase a UP96ETL and Fractal DAC combo? If yes, what is your experience so far?

I have not purchased them.  Still considering it but just have been way too busy with my own business. Demand for EtherREGEN, JS-2, UltraCap, and ISO REGEN are all through the roof this year.  As my wife and friends will attest, I have no time to even enjoy our success.  Plus we are very busy with other new product development.

However I am treating myself by finally replacing my 20 year old minivan (with major driveshaft vibration at 24mph and 48mph) with a new Honda truck so that next year we can tow a small travel trailer on some trips. 

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

It has a "master clock", so it does not rely on the clock signal of the source, and it therefore "re-clocks" the incoming signal. The way it does this is novel, and has not been done before (at least according to ECD). They found a way to do it "asynchronously" (as with USB), so that clock and data signals remain "separate", in a sense (my very limited understanding) and this avoids noise spreading from one to the other... . So essentially only the "data" part of the Toslink signal is used, and the rest (clock signal) is discarded. 

 

Just to be clear, asynchronously reclocking S/PDIF (or TOSLINK or AES/EBU) is not new. Many DACs, S/PDIF reclockers, and digital converters offer this. There are several ways to do it--some easy, some hard--and some of methods are better than others.

(And this is ENTIRELY different and not at all related to asynchronous isochronous USB, which has nothing to do with clocking and only is with regards to communication back to the computer about how much data to put in each packet.)

[Superdad]

16 hours ago, hopkins said:

I am really looking forward to comparing notes with some of you, hopefully in a few weeks time. 

Is EC Designs now accepting pre-orders? Or are we really still a few months out?

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

I simply hope that the few people reading this who already have invested in ECD equipment and are considering the upgrade will not be disappointed. 

 

So ANY news from EC Designs about this DAC?  Since the February 19 blog post about it on their web site, they do not seem to have said anything more in public.  Even their most recent post in the DIYAudio forum was dated February 21.  

Is the unit in your possession still the only one? 

 

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

 I hope you are not experiencing yourself too many difficulties sourcing parts. Prices are going up for some components, especially microprocessors

I don’t know about full-blown processor chips, but prices for even advanced silicon chips (such as isolators, FPGAs, high-speed flops, clock synthesizers, and regulators) have been pretty stable—a few percent rise at most. But lead times are getting MUCH longer and availability in general distribution has been poor.

It is no fun to have a hot product only to be quoted a 24 week lead time on a key part for which their exists no substitutes! 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

I'll open mine up and take a few pictures (this weekend).

Looking forward to those! 

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, numlog said:

With the amount of shills in this hobby…

Wow. As a sponsoring manufacturer on this forum I can tell you that while we have a lot of vocal fans here and elsewhere, we have no shills ever.  “Shill” is a very strong word—with a specific meaning involving what amounts to fraud—so I would think your accusation would be rather offensive to most of the members here.

Can’t understand why you would equate people sharing enthusiasm for a product/brand with shilling.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, numlog said:

I cant understand why you are taking this as a personal attack or that you think I'm saying everyone is a shill.

 

I don't take it as a "personal attack" at all.  But I do think it insulting to the membership at AS to cast such an aspersion with no evidence. Not only is not everyone a shill but I am not aware of ANY shills active on this forum--certainly not in this thread.

 

[Superdad]

20 hours ago, Huubster said:

Two things became evident very soon:

1- Toslink cables do have quite an impact on sound

If that is the case (and it seems to be confirmed by at least two PowerDAC owners here), that would seem to blow up the claim of “source immunity.”   No problem if it does—the ECD design topology is intriguing in many other ways. 

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

They informed me yesterday that they are going to test some changes to increase the power, and then they will update  the model I have so I can test things again on my side. I assume this is all going to take a few weeks, so stay tuned...

 

I certainly am interested in the EC Designs DACs--due to the innovative engineering and positive reviews--and I would readily take a flyer on a purchase but there are a couple of big issues holding me back:

a) The 1.4VRMS output level of the PowerDAC-R is insufficient for max volume in my system;

b) You and others have been reporting that the performance of the PowerDAC-S significantly exceeds that of the PowerDAC-R;

c) The PowerDAC-S is unlikely to be sufficient to directly drive my speakers (which, while not totally inefficient at about 90.5dB/1w/1m do need some control in the bass);

d) The PowerDAC-S does not appear to have any RCA output to connect to a preamp.

e) I find 3dB level steps to be quite coarse, would greatly prefer 1.5 or 2 dB steps or some taper.

 

If the PowerDAC-S would offer RCA outputs at 2V--and perhaps finer level control or just fixed output--then I (and perhaps many more others) would give it a go without hesitation.

Perhaps EC Designs will find this feedback useful.  Everyone wants to experience their best/most current DAC performance, but not everyone (maybe rather few) are going to give up their present power amp/speaker set up.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

They are now leaning towards a single S model…

Could you suggest to them that they add line-level (RCA) output to the S model?

I think such would greatly increase sales for them as people (like me!) would be more willing to try it with their speakers yet have a fallback to use with a power amp if it does not work out. Just a thought. 

[Superdad]

On 11/16/2021 at 11:32 PM, hopkins said:

…the S model has a larger number of "Fractal bits" (44 versus 22) so it should offer greater accuracy.

 

22 hours ago, hopkins said:

Both can be used connected to an external preamp/amp but for that use case there is no point in spending more on the S model.

Hmm… 

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, bodiebill said:

I did not 'need' a new DAC but was lured by the preamp, which compared favourably to my current one. I am not in the market for the PowerDAC S as I am too attached to my low-sensitivity (84dB) TAD ME1 speakers and tube-like mosfet Reimyo KAP-777 power amp.

I’m curious about whether you find you have enough line output level from the PowerDAC-R to get to high volumes with your setup.  Its 1.4Vrms output rating (compared to standard 2.0 or 2.2V) is one thing that has me hesitant.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

Thankfully, there have been a few others with good ears and an open mind who have listened to the powerDAC-S (not only in my system) and praised it. Not that I ever had any doubts 🙂

 

Anyway, it is nice to have a space here to exchange with others interested in ECD's products. There is plenty of room for the skeptics to express their point of view elsewhere... 

 

I for one have expressed interest in EC Designs--since well before powerDAC announcements. However, I think you are getting well out in front them in your promotion of the powerDAC-S since:

a) It is not even available for sale yet;

b) It is nearly $3,700 with no installed base to report about it;

c) Its utility is mostly limited to just those who have highly efficient loudspeakers (or to wealthy headphone listeners I guess).

 

As I have posted before, I would purchase the powerDAC-R without hesitation except for its very low 1.4V rms output and nine 3dB level steps covering just a 27dB range. Also, I would need to find a decent USB>TOSLINK converter capable of higher than the 96KHz sample rate limit of the one EC Designs offers.

In addition, I have a lot of DSD albums so would need to find a way to play those properly. I can overlook all but the 1.4V max output level.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

I mentioned another recent listening session at a friend's who has 92db (perhaps  93) speakers and there was plenty of dynamics and power reserve (power level never went past 8 out of 12 from what I remember). More feedback is needed, but the idea that the powerDAC-S only plays well with highly efficient speakers is wrong. 

You can spin it any way you wish, but at the end of the day the powerDAC-S has just 2.5 watts to drive speakers. I’ve been an audiophile since my teens—45 years ago—and played with plenty of low flea-powered amps and efficient speakers. My speakers now are about 91dB/W at 1m—and I can assure you that 2.5W is not enough to get the monkey going with them.

I like what ECD is trying to do, but they are not going to find a big audience for the -S model.

I still might give the -R a spin.  But no matter how sweet the DAC is, 3dB level steps are really the dark ages for volume control.

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, hopkins said:

But it sounds fabulous

Any idea when someone—other than yourself—will be able to possess one?

I’ve searched the web and can not find another soul with a PowerDAC-S.  In fact, I can’t find any reviews by people with the -R.

It must be lonely to not have any company in the owners’ club for such an innovative component.

[Superdad]

10 hours ago, yogibear said:

A single channel plays here in a short clip:

 

Your YouTube compressed audio sounds great on my laptop speakers! 

 

I honestly do not understand how anyone expects room recorded (or even direct wire recorded) files of audio chains to be informative in any way.

@hopkins (and others) post recordings that are DAC output>speakers in room>microphone>microphone preamp>A/D converter.  Someone downloads and listens to the file though their own DAC>headphones or speakers.  

What is to learn from that? Even comparisons are nonsense.

 

It reminds me of manufacturers running television advertisements for their 4K displays (sometimes side-by-side with other brands or technology)--while the audience is watching that on their own inferior sets (or on a mobile phone) at home. It is silly!