Regardless of who has the superior algorithm, heavy lifting tasks can be performed much more efficiently and with much higher precision on chips and FPGAs. This is a well known fact....

[YashN]

Yes that's the point. Then I'll have a true reference point. Next step will be to try to match the performance using HQ player and the same modulator/filter combo.

 

So there's nothing preventing you from at least trying an offline conversion right now. You don't specifically need Miska's modulators and filters.

 

However, they do sound awesome.

[YashN]

Checkout Mutec for some pro level reclockers.

 

This one?

 

 

[YashN]

It's all about implementation. There's much more to a DAC than the chip.

 

It so happens that the AMR/iFi team's implementation with the Burr-Brown is also fantastic, in addition to the Burr-Brown having a great implementation itself.

[Blizzard]

So there's nothing preventing you from at least trying an offline conversion right now. You don't specifically need Miska's modulators and filters.

 

However, they do sound awesome.

 

I have tried. I've found all offline conversions I've tried degrade sound quality. But I haven't tried them all.

 

With HQ player on the fly conversation to DSD 128/256 made the sound smoother, but at the same time details are a bit smeared as well as tonal accuracy a bit off. But yes overall more pleasant to the ears, just less accurate.

 

It was almost like adding tubes into the signal chain.

[Paul R]

And you think that's all that matters?

 

If the question is how does electrical noise in the server affect the NAA and DAC, then yes. That is all that matters - it does not affect the NAA or DAC.

 

 

Well, you could start by not replacing a crappy shortcut by another crappy shortcut, in particular, stop using 'spraying' as if the only thing that happening is like how an aerosol works. Secondly, where's the DAC in your paragraph, and optional pre-amp and amp?

 

Well, if you want to start talking in technical terms, in other words, exact terms instead of layman's terminologies, we need to start talking about exactly what kinds of noise *you* are talking about. Radiation noise, like RF, can be impressed on conductors of course, without the need for any physical coupling. However, that is not so easily done as you seem to believe. We can certainly deliver into that much deeper, but except in situations like routing along a Plasma TV apparently emitting enough RF to make like a RADAR unit...

 

Differential mode noise is always, so far as I know, the result of Equivalent Series Conductance (ESL) or Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR). Every time I have seen and hand to deal with it, it was a low frequency signal and almost always traced back to a switching mode power supply with inadequate grounding or otherwise poor construction.

 

Common Mode noise on the other hand, always seems in my experience to be more high frequency, and seems to come from unwanted capacitance. Bad solder joints, heat sinks, etc.

 

Lastly, you might want to talk about how the noise you are concerned about is coupled into the system. Galvanic? Inductive? etc.

 

I am not saying they are not valid and legitimate concerns in an audio system.

 

 

Think more about power and ground loops and you'll have a bigger understanding.

 

As opposed to your demonstrated understanding?

 

Amplifiers, audio players, and computers all have strictly defined emission levels, and all have at least general levels of immunity. The devices have to meet these standards or they are not salable in the U.S. Given that as a *starting* point, what *exactly* are you trying to limit?

 

You seem to be making a grand jump from this or that is possible to this or that is the reason and here's how to fix it.

 

-Paul

[Jud]

I have tried. I've found all offline conversions I've tried degrade sound quality. But I haven't tried them all.

 

Both YashN and I suggested Audiophile Inventory. Have you tried it?

[Hiro]

I have tried. I've found all offline conversions I've tried degrade sound quality. But I haven't tried them all.

 

With HQ player on the fly conversation to DSD 128/256 made the sound smoother, but at the same time details are a bit smeared as well as tonal accuracy a bit off. But yes overall more pleasant to the ears, just less accurate.

 

It was almost like adding tubes into the signal chain.

 

Don't forget that you're likely comparing it against standard, ringing PCM filters, which have their own signature. Pre- and post-ringing typically generates a powerful sound.

 

 

https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/akm-verita-4490-dac/

[Jud]

Don't forget that you're likely comparing it against standard, ringing PCM filters, which have their own signature. Pre- and post-ringing typically generates a powerful sound.

 

 

The ESS/Resonessence filters aren't really "standard." For one thing, there's non-modifiable upsampling to ~40-44MHz before final conversion to analog.

[Hiro]

The ESS/Resonessence filters aren't really "standard." For one thing, there's non-modifiable upsampling to ~40-44MHz before final conversion to analog.

 

But there's probably also a standard 8x or similar PCM oversampling involved as well. You can read in the above link how different PCM oversampling filters affect the signal and sound quality.

[AndreasB]

Dear Jud,

 

I am very interested to have a copy of that script to try for instance HQPlayer, Jriver20 or AU D2.1 from RAM including my music files from another RAM partition.

 

Ps. I own a Mac Mini 2.3 Quadcore with 16Gb, 2x 1 TB harddisks (=2012 server model)i running the Amarra Mac OSX Optimization Apple Script. So enough memory left .

 

How can I obtain these script files ?

 

Very best regards,

Andreas

 

 

- I use a script that runs on bootup to (1) load A+ to a RAMdisk; (2) load music files to a folder in another RAMdisk; I have A+ set up with a smart playlist that will include any files in this folder. So A+ in a RAMdisk is ready to play music from another RAMdisk when my computer boots. This could also be used for HQPlayer. AppleScript, no external software necessary. Be happy to post the script if you would like.

 

- As of right now, apps won't run from a RAMdisk in the latest El Capitan beta, absent some magic I haven't come across yet. (Haven't had time to read up and see whether it's a known issue and what solution might exist.) So if you want to run your player apps from RAMdisk, stay with Yosemite for the time being.

[Paul R]

If computer/renderer combos are completely transparent, you should be able to daisy chain 20 of them before the DAC and get the same results.

 

I think you have a basic misunderstanding somewhere.

 

The computers are pretty much, save for possibly electrical noise seeping through a USB cable, all utterly and completely transparent about the music. That is true even though different players can sometimes sound different playing the exact same music. In theory at least, that is related to processor activity - which relates directly to electrical noise - and the *types* of processor activities.

 

A renderer is never completely transparent, because it is rendering digital data to analog. (A DAC is a renderer, for instance.)

[Jud]

Dear Jud,

 

I am very interested to have a copy of that script to try for instance HQPlayer, Jriver20 or AU D2.1 from RAM including my music files from another RAM partition.

 

Ps. I own a Mac Mini 2.3 Quadcore with 16Gb, 2x 1 TB harddisks (=2012 server model)i running the Amarra Mac OSX Optimization Apple Script. So enough memory left .

 

How can I obtain these script files ?

 

Very best regards,

Andreas

 

I'll post the script here tonight or tomorrow, Andreas, and then all you have to do is copy and paste it into the Mac's Script Editor to modify it for your needs/wants.

[Jud]

But there's probably also a standard 8x or similar PCM oversampling involved as well. You can read in the above link how different PCM oversampling filters affect the signal and sound quality.

 

There is indeed an 8x oversampling filter, or actually seven different choices (scroll down to see particulars on the seven filters): Digital Filters | Resonessence

 

It's evident some care and knowledge has been applied, and they've taken input from beta testers (listeners) as well. Of course I'm not saying these are the be-all and end-all of interpolation filters, since the resources available on chip will act as a limitation.

[Superdad]

..since the resources available on chip will act as a limitation.

 

That, as Frank used to sing, is the crux of the biscuit.

[Blizzard]

Both YashN and I suggested Audiophile Inventory. Have you tried it?

 

Not yet but I want to try it out. Offline conversion makes way more sense to me. This way you don't need a power house computer, you can use any media player, and fine tune your library to the best modulator/filter for each album. You don't have to change the setting for every track if you have it on shuffle.

 

Miska needs software like audio inventory. Then he can make money from people who prefer the user interface of other media players but still like his modulators/filters.

[Blizzard]

I think you have a basic misunderstanding somewhere.

 

The computers are pretty much, save for possibly electrical noise seeping through a USB cable, all utterly and completely transparent about the music. That is true even though different players can sometimes sound different playing the exact same music. In theory at least, that is related to processor activity - which relates directly to electrical noise - and the *types* of processor activities.

 

A renderer is never completely transparent, because it is rendering digital data to analog. (A DAC is a renderer, for instance.)

 

What I'm saying is you won't beat a setup like in the Mirus when it comes to noise and jitter. Sure maybe you can have better UI's, better modulators and filters, but not lower jitter and noise.

 

Modulators and filters can be offline encoded into tracks so there's a solution for that. What's missing is a Jremote like UI.

 

Next best thing would be to add a renderer such as the signature Rendu, and connect it via HDMI I2S. Then you need a server to send the audio to it. So $3500 later just to get a better UI. But no matter how good the renderer is the SD card still has advantages and will likely sound better.

[jabbr]

Not yet but I want to try it out. Offline conversion makes way more sense to me. This way you don't need a power house computer, you can use any media player, and fine tune your library to the best modulator/filter for each album. You don't have to change the setting for every track if you have it on shuffle.

 

Miska needs software like audio inventory. Then he can make money from people who prefer the user interface of other media players but still like his modulators/filters.

 

I have both. The reason I don't do offline DSD512 (or DSD256) up conversion is the resultant file sizes. Starts to become very cumbersome fir a large library.

[Blizzard]

I have both. The reason I don't do offline DSD512 (or DSD256) up conversion is the resultant file sizes. Starts to become very cumbersome fir a large library.

 

 

 

Spending $5K on a Media computer is pretty cumbersome as well. Hard drive space is cheap nowadays.

 

$144.99 for a 5 TB hdd. Getting cheaper much faster than Moore's law is making CPU's cheaper

 

Amazon.com: Toshiba 5TB SATA 6Gb/s 7200rpm, 128MB Cache, 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive (PH3500U-1I72): Electronics

[Paul R]

What I'm saying is you won't beat a setup like in the Mirus when it comes to noise and jitter. Sure maybe you can have better UI's, better modulators and filters, but not lower jitter and noise.

 

Modulators and filters can be offline encoded into tracks so there's a solution for that. What's missing is a Jremote like UI.

 

Next best thing would be to add a renderer such as the signature Rendu, and connect it via HDMI I2S. Then you need a server to send the audio to it. So $3500 later just to get a better UI. But no matter how good the renderer is the SD card still has advantages and will likely sound better.

 

Perhaps not. I will grant you the Mirus is a nice machine.

 

I don't agree with you that it has the best sound and best noise and jitter measurements. Or that it is superior to USB DACs. I hear your reasons though.

 

-Paul

[Blizzard]

Perhaps not. I will grant you the Mirus is a nice machine.

 

I don't agree with you that it has the best sound and best noise and jitter measurements. Or that it is superior to USB DACs. I hear your reasons though.

 

-Paul

 

Easier to judge something when you have 1 in your possession. It is also a USB DAC. This is why I know the SD card is superior to the USB input. So far tried with 5 computers. I know others who have tried with several computers and high end renderers/streamers. We are all on the same page.

[Paul R]

Easier to judge something when you have 1 in your possession. It is also a USB DAC. This is why I know the SD card is superior to the USB input. So far tried with 5 computers. I know others who have tried with several computers and high end renderers/streamers. We are all on the same page.

 

Ever heard a Wavelength Crimson? How about Jussi's DAC with an iFi USB Power? Or how about an MSB? Or a Buffalo? How about a MyTek over Firewire? Or a Berkeley Audio Design DAC2? How about a Devialet?

 

 

I hear your opinion.

 

 

Yours,

-Paul

[Blizzard]

Ever heard a Wavelength Crimson? How about Jussi's DAC with an iFi USB Power? Or how about an MSB? Or a Buffalo? How about a MyTek over Firewire? Or a Berkeley Audio Design DAC2? How about a Devialet?

 

 

I hear your opinion.

 

 

Yours,

-Paul

 

No I haven't heard every DAC in the world, but I'm also not judging them based on forum posts or reviews. If I actually try one, then I'll express my opinion.

 

Besides its not the DAC I'm saying is the best, it's the SD card implementation vs computer/USB.

 

If the best DAC in the world had the same setup built it, it would only make it better.

[Audio_ELF]

Easier to judge something when you have 1 in your possession. It is also a USB DAC. This is why I know the SD card is superior to the USB input. So far tried with 5 computers. I know others who have tried with several computers and high end renderers/streamers. We are all on the same page.

Blizzard ... I've not remembered every post so maybe you have already acknowledged this ... but surely all you are saying is that with the Mirus the SD card is a superior input to the USB input. This does not necessarily translate to saying that SD card is superior to USB as an interface.

 

Eloise

[Don Hills]

No I haven't heard every DAC in the world, but I'm also not judging them based on forum posts or reviews. If I actually try one, then I'll express my opinion.

 

Besides its not the DAC I'm saying is the best, it's the SD card implementation vs computer/USB.

 

If the best DAC in the world had the same setup built it, it would only make it better.

 

First you say you won't express an opinion on a DAC you haven't heard. Then you express an opinion on a DAC you haven't heard.

[Blizzard]

Blizzard ... I've not remembered every post so maybe you have already acknowledged this ... but surely all you are saying is that with the Mirus the SD card is a superior input to the USB input. This does not necessarily translate to saying that SD card is superior to USB as an interface.

 

Eloise

 

Yes that's what I'm saying. But I'm also saying the SD card transport is a better way to do things (sound quality wise) than USB if implemented the way Resonessence did in the Mirus.