Optical Network Configurations

[jabbr]

A big thank you for this solution Jabbr!

 

Well I hope it is a solution These ideas are all based on ideas from the forum. I certainly didn't invent optical networking. Perhaps just noticed that the prices have become reasonable for home users with specific requirements ... and then there is ebay

 

Another experiment:

 

I really think that fiber for file transfer, to a low power, low EMI memory cache that, bypassing SPDIF and USB, serves the translated audio file of any format gaplessly via I2S (asynch and DAC master-clocked) into the DAC is the way forward to lowering digititus to perhaps an indistinguishable level. Forget Mac or Windows as they are too bloated, so it has to be Linux or firmware. Still need to use an iPad wirelessly with OHMedia type of controller for ease of use. Pipe dream?

 

Not at all. There is no reason why we couldn't use the LVDS version of I2S/raw DSD. Would need support from software like HQPlayer/NAA as well as hardware (starting to happen). Presumably the I2S output of the Amanero board which feeds the DSC1 would be a point at which the raw DSD signal could also feed the DSC1 ... this is open hardware so modifiable, but other DACs could follow suit.

 

My digital has never sounded better, and there are still refinements possible, I know.

 

The setup is: 2x TP Link MC210CS with a Lynn SC (9/125) fiber cable linking the NAS to the switch/wireless bridge (powered by an LPSU) on which the streamer is connected via LAN cable. Using the IFI low noise wall-wart and a Teddy Pardo all additionally filtered to power the FMC. All cables are BlueJeansCable certified.

 

Moving from wireless was improved by wired NAS to streamer via switch. And this fiber link improved it further.

 

Open items:

 

1. I was not able to get the streamer to connect to the switch via the FMC, so that needs to be resolved

 

There might be some complexity in your network. Are you using your wireless router to bridge two wired networks, or does it provide access for wireless clients, or are you doing both? Does your network have more than one path between devices? It might be getting "confused".

 

When moving to optical switch: you would need a SC-SC to LC-LC patch cable (singlemode 9/125) and an 1000base-LX SFP module.

2. Need to replace the copper switch with a fiber switch also on linear power.

3. Need to replace the IFI wallwart with linear for peace of mind.

4. Currently using a Synology NAS, but Jabbr's custom one with a fiber NIC would logically be better. Synology does have a few expensive ones with a fiber NIC or a slot to add one, so that is another option.

5. Find a way to directly link streamer to NAS via fiber, without switch in between, and still have the NAS on the wireless network.

 

Cheers

 

This suggests that you have a single wired network, and place wireless router to provide access for wireless devices to entire network. So connect NAS to switch, streamer to switch and wireless router to switch. Now replace ethernet between streamer to switch with FMC pair and intervening optical and this should work?

[John769]

Got dual pc set up working finally and the 2 x 220L's in between the control and audio machines are very effective there!

 

FWIW, both TP RX LEDs are a constant steady green, whereas when previously placed before the control pc (in dual pc set up), the TP RX LED's blinked. That's with identical powering of smps for first and linear for the second.

[tranz]

Thanks jabbr!

 

 

Well I hope it is a solution These ideas are all based on ideas from the forum. I certainly didn't invent optical networking. Perhaps just noticed that the prices have become reasonable for home users with specific requirements ... and then there is ebay

 

Miska had mentioned optical ethernet a few years ago, but your recent experiments put the focus on what is possible within an affordable budget and showing us how to.

 

Not at all. There is no reason why we couldn't use the LVDS version of I2S/raw DSD. Would need support from software like HQPlayer/NAA as well as hardware (starting to happen). Presumably the I2S output of the Amanero board which feeds the DSC1 would be a point at which the raw DSD signal could also feed the DSC1 ... this is open hardware so modifiable, but other DACs could follow suit.

 

 

HQP is a possibility if it provides bit perfect playback in the future for all formats and a way to get the data into the DAC without USB and SPDIF. UPnP/OHMedia, not liked by some, is my preferred mechanism to bypass USB and SPDIF and provide fast and convenient iPad library access currently.

 

...When moving to optical switch: you would need a SC-SC to LC-LC patch cable (singlemode 9/125) and an 1000base-LX SFP module.

 

This suggests that you have a single wired network, and place wireless router to provide access for wireless devices to entire network. So connect NAS to switch, streamer to switch and wireless router to switch. Now replace ethernet between streamer to switch with FMC pair and intervening optical and this should work?

 

Thanks, that is one of the things I am curious to try as that is close to how the setup is. The gigabit switch (to which NAS and streamer are connected is also a wireless bridge (WD My Net AC bridge), which is connected wirelessly to my main home's wireless router. This way internet radio and iPad UPnP/OHMedia controllers are possible. Although I think even better would be a NAS with fiber NIC via SC cable to FMC to super short LAN cable into streamer. I would need to figure out how to get the NAS on wireless network also. The latter is something I also want to try on my current Synology since it has 2 ethernet ports.

 

Cheers

[jabbr]

Thanks, that is one of the things I am curious to try as that is close to how the setup is. The gigabit switch (to which NAS and streamer are connected is also a wireless bridge (WD My Net AC bridge), which is connected wirelessly to my main home's wireless router. This way internet radio and iPad UPnP/OHMedia controllers are possible. Although I think even better would be a NAS with fiber NIC via SC cable to FMC to super short LAN cable into streamer. I would need to figure out how to get the NAS on wireless network also. The latter is something I also want to try on my current Synology since it has 2 ethernet ports.

 

Cheers

 

You have a wireless router (bridge). Routers are a bit different that switches and although the traditional distinctions have become very blurred recently, traditionally a 1Gbs switch will maintain a 1Gbs connection between any two ports even when many pairs of ports are being concurrently used whereas a router shares the total traffic. The router however can direct traffic between two distinct networks -- in your case between the wireless and wired network -- or typically between a home network and the internet (e.g. cable modem router).

 

With a switch there is no need to worry about direct point to point Ethernet connections. Your NAS has two Ethernet ports both of which should be connected to a switch and which would allow two different clients each to have an independent 1gbs connection to the NAS. Using link aggregation, the NAS would present a single IP address, and the switch/NAS would connect two different clients to each 1gbs connection automagically. The advantage of a fiber switch is that you need 1/2 the number of FMCs because each fiber cable connects to the switch on one end and an FMC on the other (or directly to a fiber enabled client). So, connect the NAS to the switch and the switch to the wireless router and the NAS is "on" the wireless network.

 

Now what might be wrong? Hard to say. I would try using the same subnet for both your wireless and wired networks (i.e. all addresses in range 192.168.1.0 - 192.168.1.255) Do you also have another router to connect to internet? Which device is assigning IP addresses (DHCP server)?

[sig8]

jabbr: After I installed Mallanox fiber NIC in my PC, it seems that PC is trying to boot on the NIC. I get a message saying...Mellanox...iPEX....Boot...., etc. and after few seconds it goes to normal boot sequence. Is that something normal? I am waiting on my fiber switch before I connect this NIC to switch. Thanks.

[jabbr]

jabbr: After I installed Mallanox fiber NIC in my PC, it seems that PC is trying to boot on the NIC. I get a message saying...Mellanox...iPEX....Boot...., etc. and after few seconds it goes to normal boot sequence. Is that something normal? I am waiting on my fiber switch before I connect this NIC to switch. Thanks.

 

That's a good thing if you are trying to boot disk less over the network

 

Just go into your BIOS and switch the boot order to look for a hard drive first

[John769]

These 220L's are the dogs bollocks in between two PC's! (especially with Server 2012/ AO)

 

More detail, expansiveness and ease compared to without them. Highly recommended...

[ted_b]

These 220L's are the dogs bollocks in between two PC's! (especially with Server 2012/ AO)

 

More detail, expansiveness and ease compared to without them. Highly recommended...

 

+1.

[One and a half]

This thread (and similar) tells me that the Ethernet packets behave much the same way when it comes to SI and PHY issues as per USB. If the dynamics are changed in the transmission media or the optical to copper converters then what you hear will change.

 

What's needed is an EthernetRegen or RegenE

[jabbr]

This thread (and similar) tells me that the Ethernet packets behave much the same way when it comes to SI and PHY issues as per USB. If the dynamics are changed in the transmission media or the optical to copper converters then what you hear will change.

 

What's needed is an EthernetRegen or RegenE

 

It is very similar. Each fiberoptic connection takes an electrical signal and converts to optical and then reconverts to electrical. The copper ethernet may need to push a signal down 100m or so of copper and consequently needs power. The signal itself gets degraded and needs to be reconstituted. Fiberoptic has some of the same issues but much less, and does not need the same increase in power as the transmission length increases. A model where long distance connections are fiberoptic switch to switch and using LR singlemode optics, and short connections are computer to switch using SR multimode would then involve 3 serdes opticoelectric "regens". The point is that the intervening fiberoptic switch actually improves the signal and reduces the work of the computer's NIC. The Xeon can move the regenerated digital information directly into processor cache, entirely avoiding the copper ethernet PHYs.

 

That's the theory. The proof is in the sound and at least some initial impressions are supportive.

[sig8]

That's a good thing if you are trying to boot disk less over the network

 

Just go into your BIOS and switch the boot order to look for a hard drive first

 

I checked BIOS on my computer with Mellanox fiber NIC, two things have happened since I installed this card.

 

Under boot devices, now I have Mellanox card as device, which wasn't there.

 

Whenever I reboot this computer, it first wants to boot on Mellanox fiber NIC, and after few minutes goes to regular boot sequence, even though it is not checked under boot list, only HHD and USB are checked.

 

It does not bother me, but if it has any significance, please let us know. Thanks.

[jabbr]

I checked BIOS on my computer with Mellanox fiber NIC, two things have happened since I installed this card.

 

Under boot devices, now I have Mellanox card as device, which wasn't there.

 

Whenever I reboot this computer, it first wants to boot on Mellanox fiber NIC, and after few minutes goes to regular boot sequence, even though it is not checked under boot list, only HHD and USB are checked.

 

It does not bother me, but if it has any significance, please let us know. Thanks.

 

The card has firmware to boot off the network (PXE). You can reorder the boot devices so that the BIOS looks for the hard drive first. No harm done.

[sig8]

The card has firmware to boot off the network (PXE). You can reorder the boot devices so that the BIOS looks for the hard drive first. No harm done.

jabbr;I had to reboot this PC, but at this time it will just not boot on HDD. It just kept on going through loops of trying to reboot on Mellanox, and could not boot at all. I did F12 and told it to boot on HDD, still it will do the same thing. I went in BIOS and Mellanox card was not checked.

 

I had to physically pull the card out, then after few reboot cycles it finally booted on HDD. Now Mellanox is gone from the boot sequence. I don't understand how Mellanox could add itself to boot sequence. This Mellanox card is a used item, so maybe it has some settings, which are sort of overriding everything. I thought of getting in Device Manager and look at Properties of this card but this time just could not get the computer to boot with this card installed. Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thanks.

 

I got TP switch; connected it, and connected my NAS to fiber. It provided another incremental improvement (probably bigger than NAA on fiber, or may be it's 1+1=2) .

[ted_b]

Another Mellanox issue for me: I can't get it to see a cable. It shows as an ethernet adapter in my network on my Zuma (along with my copper one which I need to keep connected so I can see my computer on remote desktop....at least until the fiber/Mellanox works). But it has a red X and says network cable unplugged. The other end (TP-Link MC220L) has the FX link blinking, not steady (as my successful NAA FMC-to-FMC fiber install is...steady). I've tried different fiber cables, different SFPs in the card, sdifferent FMCs. everything. TCPIP settings seem ok (DHCP, etc). I have driver 4.1.10092 (found automatically). I tried setting the FMC to auto, to force, resetting in between, nothing.

 

Any ideas? Maybe the HQP pc server end isn't worth it? Stay copper for now as long as NAA is fiber??

 

Update: I upgraded the driver to 4.8 (supposedly needed for WS2012) but still same status...seen but showing network cable unplugged. Some googling says I need a subnet? Argh...over my head here.

[sig8]

At one point my card was working, before I rebooted. Because I could see my NAS, and NAA on this HQP. I had copper unplugged, so this is what was giving network connectivity. I am going to try few other things and report back.

[sig8]

I installed (physically) Mellanox in the slot again and rebooted twice. My card is working I have connectivity, but no remote desktop. Argh....

 

There are too many settings under Advanced tab of Mellanox Properties, so hopefully it might be one of them.

 

I will google and see. I know jabrr has some family engagements today, so will wait for him to get back.

 

I gave an admin password to BIOS configuration; hoping that Mellanox will not be able to add itself to BIOS boot sequence, but still it did, I unchecked, but it still wants to boot on that first, then goes to HDD.

 

Cannot connect all three; I am short one SFP. I thought Mellanox would not need it but it does.

[sig8]

Another Mellanox issue for me: I can't get it to see a cable. It shows as an ethernet adapter in my network on my Zuma (along with my copper one which I need to keep connected so I can see my computer on remote desktop....at least until the fiber/Mellanox works). But it has a red X and says network cable unplugged. The other end (TP-Link MC220L) has the FX link blinking, not steady (as my successful NAA FMC-to-FMC fiber install is...steady). I've tried different fiber cables, different SFPs in the card, sdifferent FMCs. everything. TCPIP settings seem ok (DHCP, etc). I have driver 4.1.10092 (found automatically). I tried setting the FMC to auto, to force, resetting in between, nothing.

 

Any ideas? Maybe the HQP pc server end isn't worth it? Stay copper for now as long as NAA is fiber??

 

Update: I upgraded the driver to 4.8 (supposedly needed for WS2012) but still same status...seen but showing network cable unplugged. Some googling says I need a subnet? Argh...over my head here.

 

Ted: Sounds like something physically wrong with the card. My card is working, but no Remote Desktop yet.

[jabbr]

Another Mellanox issue for me: I can't get it to see a cable. It shows as an ethernet adapter in my network on my Zuma (along with my copper one which I need to keep connected so I can see my computer on remote desktop....at least until the fiber/Mellanox works). But it has a red X and says network cable unplugged. The other end (TP-Link MC220L) has the FX link blinking, not steady (as my successful NAA FMC-to-FMC fiber install is...steady). I've tried different fiber cables, different SFPs in the card, sdifferent FMCs. everything. TCPIP settings seem ok (DHCP, etc). I have driver 4.1.10092 (found automatically). I tried setting the FMC to auto, to force, resetting in between, nothing.

 

Any ideas? Maybe the HQP pc server end isn't worth it? Stay copper for now as long as NAA is fiber??

 

Update: I upgraded the driver to 4.8 (supposedly needed for WS2012) but still same status...seen but showing network cable unplugged. Some googling says I need a subnet? Argh...over my head here.

 

I'm not a Mellanox expert but perhaps your SFP module is not compatible with the card?

[jabbr]

I installed (physically) Mellanox in the slot again and rebooted twice. My card is working I have connectivity, but no remote desktop. Argh....

 

There are too many settings under Advanced tab of Mellanox Properties, so hopefully it might be one of them.

 

I will google and see. I know jabrr has some family engagements today, so will wait for him to get back.

 

I gave an admin password to BIOS configuration; hoping that Mellanox will not be able to add itself to BIOS boot sequence, but still it did, I unchecked, but it still wants to boot on that first, then goes to HDD.

 

Cannot connect all three; I am short one SFP. I thought Mellanox would not need it but it does.

 

If it's just Remote Desktop not working then it must be some network config issue eg firewall, maybe Remote Desktop is looking for a different interface etc etc

[ted_b]

I'm not a Mellanox expert but perhaps your SFP module is not compatible with the card?

 

That's what it feels like. It's the Finisar SFPs and the Mellanox MNPA19-XTR card. Googling a forum or two seems to say that Mellanox cards are pretty agnostic. Weird.

[sig8]

If it's just Remote Desktop not working then it must be some network config issue eg firewall, maybe Remote Desktop is looking for a different interface etc etc

It's just Remote Desktop is that is not working. I can sit on that PC and do whatever. Remote Desktop works with RJ45 connection. I tried to disable Remote Desktop, then disable copper NIC, reboot and enable Remote Desktop, still does not work on fiber NIC. Any ideas. Thanks.

[sig8]

That's what it feels like. It's the Finisar SFPs and the Mellanox MNPA19-XTR card.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020KPARQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

Try these from Amazon. First under used for $7.11 including shipping come actually new, shipped from Virginia.

 

I have not resolved Remote Desktop yet, but can't be the SFP.

[ted_b]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020KPARQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

Try these from Amazon. First under used for $7.11 including shipping come actually new, shipped from Virginia.

 

I have not resolved Remote Desktop yet, but can't be the SFP.

 

Thx. I wonder if switches like Diablo or TP-Link will accept mix and match SFP brands. I have 8 Finisars and they work in the FMCs so far.

[sig8]

Remote Desktop works when I give an IP address to connect, instead of giving it a computer name, as I used to connect. I will have to give this card a static IP. Thank you guys.

[jabbr]

Remote Desktop works when I give an IP address to connect, instead of giving it a computer name, as I used to connect. I will have to give this card a static IP. Thank you guys.

 

You can probably configure for DHCP