What DACs support DSD input NOT via USB?

[jocar37]

I want to buy a dac that can do WAV, FLAC and DSD. But the dac will attach to my stereo rig, not my computer. Input will be thru my Oppo BDP-103. It may be information overload but it occurs to me that every DSD capable DAC I've looked at that supports DSD does so thru a USB input and the Oppo does not have a USB out. So I guess I'm looking for a DAC that can take a DSD signal via a coax or optical connection. I also will need a headphone jack on the DAC. Any suggestions?

[john57]

It is my understanding that the manual for the 103 states that SACD audio cannot be sent through the

coaxial/optical audio output only on the HDMI does the 103 will send out the DSD otherwise the DSD data is converted to analog for use on the analog outputs.

[ted_b]

We've spent countless hours putting this database together for that reason. Look under both DoP input and Native input. Anything other than USB is what you are looking for. But why funnel it through the Oppo 103? The coax or optical DoP must come from a computer out (a server of some sort, eventually). The Oppo 103 is not a server per se.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0

[jocar37]

We've spent countless hours putting this database together for that reason. Look under both DoP input and Native input. Anything other than USB is what you are looking for. But why funnel it through the Oppo 103? The coax or optical DoP must come from a computer out (a server of some sort, eventually). The Oppo 103 is not a server per se.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0

 

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely look into it. The reason I'm funneling it thru the Oppo is that I'm going to rip all my CDs on a computer in my basement music practice room. That computer will also house all my music files, including HDTracks and DSD downloads, which will be streamed to a media bridge in my main stereo rig in the living room connnected via Ethernet cable. The Oppo is connected to the media bridge and in turn to my stereo. I'm going to install the DAC between the Oppo and the stereo. The Oppo seems to be limited in its handling of DSD. At least, I don't understand it. So I figured a DSD capable DAC would make life easier. Am I wrong?

[ted_b]

I am not aware of the Oppo's ability to pass DSD music through it. I would highly doubt it outputs anything but it's own playback through it's coax outs (which do not include hirez, even it's own). I could be wrong. Why not use it's DSD playback via USB harddrive?

[jocar37]

I am not aware of the Oppo's ability to pass DSD music through it. I would highly doubt it outputs anything but it's own playback through it's coax outs (which do not include hirez, even it's own). I could be wrong. Why not use it's DSD playback via USB harddrive?

 

That's a wrinkle I hadn't considered. I need to look into what the Oppo can output and thru what ports. My hope was to keep things simple by having my entire music library, regardless of format, resident in one location, the basement computer's 2TB drive, and feed it all the way thru my stereo system to my speakers through the same single channel.

[Bill Lord]

Mytek's Mastering version. https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/stereo-192dsd-dac/

 

Accepts, DSD in the form of SDIF-3 (not S/PDIF) and DSD-raw using BNC connectors.

 

Works well with the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder.

 

[Audio_ELF]

One option (though not sure if actually) out, is Bryston's new DAC (the BDA3 iirc) which includes DSD capable HDMI input.

[Norton]

The Chord Hugo (and therefore probably the new 2Cute) accepts DSD64 over SPdif.

 

However, I don't think, even with DSD downloads rather than SACD, that the Oppo can output DSD over SPDif. It can of course output PCM up to 24/192 over SPDif.

 

You could just trade your 103 in for a 105D, the DAC in the Oppo is pretty good SQ for £, in my opinion more so on DSD than PCM.

 

I'm not clear what you mean by a media bridge though. The Oppo can act both as a DLNA renderer (with something like JRiver running on your PC and the excellent JRemote to control things) and can also play from your PC as a network share controlled by the Oppo app, so if you have an Ethernet connection in your listening room, just connect this directly to the Oppo.

[ted_b]

As sated earlier, funneling through the Oppo 103 will not work. And yes, Chord's Qute series (EX and HD) as well as their Hugo and newer 2Qute and TT ALL do DSD over digital, as per the database (and my many reviews). There are many that do digital DoP but that's not an issue in this setup, cuz it won't work with the Oppo serving music.

 

DSD files can be played in the Oppo via USB hard drive/stick locally located. All the rest of your music can come in via the network capability of the Oppo. The Oppo is your DAC in either case.

[Bill Lord]

One of the very few that do not use USB.

 

Mytek's Mastering version. https://mytekdigital.com/hifi/products/stereo-192dsd-dac/

 

Accepts, DSD in the form of SDIF-3 (not S/PDIF) and DSD-raw using BNC connectors.

 

Works well with the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder.

 

 

In addition to the Mytek unit.. The Tascam DA-3000 is also a DAC.

 

 

It has S/PDIF, SDIF inputs and does SRC. Did I mention that it records PCM 24/192 and DSD128?

 

Finding a computer that outputs DSD over SDIF or S/PDIF is the next step. Anyone?

[Norton]

DSD files can be played in the Oppo via USB hard drive/stick locally located. All the rest of your music can come in via the network capability of the Oppo. The Oppo is your DAC in either case.

 

Note that in addition to "USB hard drive/stick locally located" the Oppo can also play DSD64 from network shares, which may be directly of help to the OP's intentions to store music on a PC elsewhere in the house, and is how I tend to use the Oppo. I have the 105 EU but the 105D extends this cpabaility to DSD128 and (I think) also adds both DSD rates to the formats it can play as a DLNA renderer.

[Norton]

One of the very few that do not use USB.

 

 

 

In addition to the Mytek unit.. The Tascam DA-3000 is also a DAC.

 

 

It has S/PDIF, SDIF inputs and does SRC. Did I mention that it records PCM 24/192 and DSD128?

 

Finding a computer that outputs DSD over SDIF or S/PDIF is the next step. Anyone?

 

As a matter of interest how does the Tascam sound on playback? I was thinking about buying one just to use as a HiRes/DSD SD Card/ thumbdrive transport or standalone player- did wonder if it might have the potentail to be one of the biggest secret bargains in Hi Fi?

[Bill Lord]

As a matter of interest how does the Tascam sound on playback? I was thinking about buying one just to use as a HiRes/DSD SD Card/ thumbdrive transport or standalone player- did wonder if it might have the potentail to be one of the biggest secret bargains in Hi Fi?

 

Here is a review, Everything Audio Network: Home Recording Review/BenchTest!TASCAM DA-3000 PCM/DSD Recorder:Perfect For Studio Pros And Audiophiles

 

I haven't heard it .

 

There is a mod too

 

DECWARE Zen Direct Stream Digital Player / Recorder

[One and a half]

As a matter of interest how does the Tascam sound on playback? I was thinking about buying one just to use as a HiRes/DSD SD Card/ thumbdrive transport or standalone player- did wonder if it might have the potentail to be one of the biggest secret bargains in Hi Fi?

 

I have the Tascam DA-3000, and it's no slouch for playback, digital AES3, S/PDIF, XLR analog and RCA outputs, quite a selection of interfaces to choose from.

For 48/16 recordings, there's really no difference to the original. At 96/24 I can hear differences between originals and recordings, slightly, slighty grainy, but still very acceptable. For DSD, it's transparent for an analog input, then played back and compared to the original analog.

Only use the CF cards, not that fond of reliability with SD cards in general. Take note of the size limits of the cards, anything larger and the device won't record on it or playback.

Menuing system is very intuitive, be prepared to sit through the manual for a few hours though, then you get the hang of it. Metering very good, and scales very well. So far touch wood, reliable in operation.

If you're thinking that metadata is supported, well, you can re-label tracks using the menu or a keyboard, so don't expect cover art. It plays back tracks 01, 02 03 etc.

 

Using the Tascam as a DAC is possible, the inputs do not include USB. AES3, RCA digital and word clocks are inputs . I don't have the equipment to supply the recorder direct with DSD via S/PDIF, so cannot comment. The USB port is only for there for media to record or playback from. Loading time is reasonably quick, it takes about 3s to catalog the disc or stick contents for a 4GB thumb drive.

 

SRC, haven't tried, usually record native, then Soundforge/Izotope to change to redbook as required.

[Norton]

Thanks both for feedback re the Tascam. Do you know if it can output DoP over basic SPDif? I'm guessing not, but if I could use it to record vinyl as DSD and then output to my Hugo, that would make it pretty much irresistible.

[One and a half]

Thanks both for feedback re the Tascam. Do you know if it can output DoP over basic SPDif? I'm guessing not, but if I could use it to record vinyl as DSD and then output to my Hugo, that would make it pretty much irresistible.

 

I don't know about DoP over S/PDIF, it might be getting beyond the device's function primarily as a recorder. Certainly recording to DSD from vinyls is possible, it can insert markers for silence, so you can create distinct tracks on the fly, however any other DSD processing like de-click would need the DSD file converted to PCM, edited, then converted again to DSD.

Still, if the vinyl is clean and pop free, you're good to go and record to DSD, up to 128 (5.6) if you wish.

[Bill Lord]

Recording to DSD as a master file and then converting to PCM for processing is an option that most Studios make use of.

 

Accepts, DSD in the form of SDIF-3 (not S/PDIF) and DSD-raw using BNC connectors. There are a few USB to SDIF-3 digital to digital converters (DDC) out in the wild that require no driver for OS X and a very simple ASIO Driver for Windows. JRiver, Audirvana, Bitperfect, and Amarra, I believe, support the USB to DDC for DSD native playback.

 

Here is a video of the exD converter in action.

 

There are others out there, google, just look for boards that accept USB to i2s and have a RCLK-DSD, LCLK-DSD, MCLK-DSD outputs. -I could be wrong as I am learning about this as we go. I've also been looking for a SACD Transport that has this facility but because of the lack of encryption on SDIF-3, there aren't any to be found. Unless one finds an older SACD Player and "Taps" into the board to get i2s or what ever is appropriate to get DSD-raw to output via SDIF-3. I believe Ted Smith, creator of the PS Audio Discrete DSD DAC, started out this way. He allegedly used thise method to get better sound and of course record in digital (realtime or 1x) the DSD stream for server playback. The other method is using a PS3.

 

it would be nice to archive my SACD disks, and I do not wish to pursue activities that are illegal. Using a SACD Transport with SDIF-3 outputs and a Tascam DA-3000 with SDIF-3 inputs would be a hobbyist method to archive my SACDs.

 

Thanks for the User feedback for the Tascam-BTW here is a video that shows basic usage and metering..

[Glisse]

That's a wrinkle I hadn't considered. I need to look into what the Oppo can output and thru what ports. My hope was to keep things simple by having my entire music library, regardless of format, resident in one location, the basement computer's 2TB drive, and feed it all the way thru my stereo system to my speakers through the same single channel.

 

The first reply to your post, by john57, gave you the answer - the Oppo (any un-modified Oppo) will only pass DSD via HDMI.

 

Given what you are trying to do, and referencing the points you made in post #4, you need a media bridge that is capable of transferring a DSD file from your basement "server", which it will do via Ethernet, and sending it to your DAC via USB. The Auralic Aries will do this.

 

May help your thought process to understand that S/PDIF interface was designed for a 24/192kHz limit, which is around 4.6MHz. Fine for DSD64 (standard DSD, which is 2.8MHz), but not for DSD128 and beyond. Which is why you are finding most DSD DACs have USB inputs.

[Maldur]

There are others out there, google, just look for boards that accept USB to i2s and have a RCLK-DSD, LCLK-DSD, MCLK-DSD outputs. -I could be wrong as I am learning about this as we go. I've also been looking for a SACD Transport that has this facility but because of the lack of encryption on SDIF-3, there aren't any to be found. Unless one finds an older SACD Player and "Taps" into the board to get i2s or what ever is appropriate to get DSD-raw to output via SDIF-3. I believe Ted Smith, creator of the PS Audio Discrete DSD DAC, started out this way. He allegedly used thise method to get better sound and of course record in digital (realtime or 1x) the DSD stream for server playback.

I have modded DA-3000 too and I tried to connect Amanero USB-to-i2s board to Tascam SDIF inputs, but when sound is very nice, some backround noise is found at level -32dB, this is weird pitching noise, not constant actually, but pulsing, somehow interval is variable in time. This pulsing is correlated to choosen DSD samplerate in Tascam - in DSD64 this is lower, for DSD128 it is higher.

With Amanero we are almost so close to winning, but something small is different in DSD format. I want to know what is different and what is need for proper signaling. I think, this is some clock phase or word clock problem.

Another problem is when Tascam outputs word clock for slave devices, Amanero can accept only external master clock, not word clock. So, we need some mechanism for regenerating master clock from word clock, if slave clock mode helps resolve this problem.

[mordante]

Why is there no DSD over BNC or spdif?

[ted_b]

Why is there no DSD over BNC or spdif?

 

? Have you been reading this thread, or my databse link? There are dozens and dozens of DACs that accept DoP (DSD) over SPDIF (coax or BNC connector).

[Maldur]

And SDIF3 (not SPDIF) uses BNC connector too.

[TarnishedEars]

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely look into it. The reason I'm funneling it thru the Oppo is that I'm going to rip all my CDs on a computer in my basement music practice room. That computer will also house all my music files, including HDTracks and DSD downloads, which will be streamed to a media bridge in my main stereo rig in the living room connnected via Ethernet cable. The Oppo is connected to the media bridge and in turn to my stereo. I'm going to install the DAC between the Oppo and the stereo. The Oppo seems to be limited in its handling of DSD. At least, I don't understand it. So I figured a DSD capable DAC would make life easier. Am I wrong?

You can't get a (non-HDMI) DSD signal out of any SACD player - stock. However what you are imagining is indeed possible, if you buy the right hardware, and install it into your Oppo.

 

If you buy a Vanity HD card for your Oppo 103, this will allow you to ouptut all digital signals in their native, (and unencrypted) formats, resolutions, and sample-rates. This includes DSD. Although DSD must be encapsulated inside of DoP. But it is still true a DSD signal.

 

I have one of these cards inside of my Oppo 103, and I can feed my PS Audio Direct Stream DAC its output directly from the Vanity HD card to my PS Audio DAC's SP/DIF input. This includes SACDs, which I play daily though this combo. I absolutely love this combination which allows me to play absolutely anything in amazing fidelity from my Oppo through my PS Audio DAC, wirh no need to rip anything first.

 

This combination will even decode any HDCDs which you may have, before sending the PCM output to your DAC, which is a very nice little bonus.

 

But be prepared for some sticker shock: This combination ain't cheap! I don't know if there are any less expensive DACs out there which understand DoP via SP/DIF. But IMO this combination is worth its price.

[Audio_ELF]

If you buy a Vanity HD card for your Oppo 103, this will allow you to ouptut all digital signals in their native, (and unencrypted) formats, resolutions, and sample-rates. This includes DSD. Although DSD must be encapsulated inside of DoP. But it is still true a DSD signal.

Are you sure it does DoP? I thought the Vanity HD board converted everything to LPCM?