Article: Devialet Unleashes Phantom

[Skeptic]

Well these look very interesting. If they are truly flat from 20-20k ±0.5dB that seems like exceptionally good performance for a speaker that size. Even more-so if they can truly extend to 16-25k ±2dB.

I am especially interested in this because it is a sealed design. I have always preferred sealed speakers to ported ones, though that typically means your low frequency extension is rather limited.

 

It really has felt that the traditional large passive speaker design has been on the way out, and this seems like the way forward for speaker design.

I have been looking at higher-end "bookshelf" size speakers for a while now, and these have jumped straight to the top of my list.

 

While it my be $5000 for a stereo pair, that should put it in a similar price-point to the Genelec 8351A, which was also near the top of that list - but it's ported, only extends down to 38Hz, and would need to be paired with a subwoofer.

 

 

I do have some concerns though, and have always been wary about buying into the first generation of unconventionally-designed products like this.

 

My first concern would be: how do you actually send music to them? Do they just use DLNA, or do I have to use some Devialet-specific app? I really don't want to buy into a proprietary system.

What about multi-channel audio? With optical you are limited to stereo signals, you need HDMI for uncompressed multichannel audio.

 

The bigger question I have though, is: what about room correction?

It doesn't matter if your speaker is perfectly flat 20-20k once you place it in a non-ideal room.

With all the DSP in there, and each driver having its own amplifier, I would hope that it has a good room correction system, because it could really limit its performance if you have to perform DSP externally and treat it as a stereo speaker rather than correcting each driver individually.

The built-in room correction is really what had put the Genelec 8351A at the top of my list until now.

 

And if I'm nitpicking, I actually think that the white unit looks better than the silver, but I would rather pay for the higher performance model.

 

 

For anyone that wants to see what it looks like actually playing music, I found this video:

[firedog]

White Papers don't move air.

 

And linear, clean, low bass requires air to move.

 

Physics.

Very hi pressure cabinet with drivers made of special materials so that they can do very long excursion, very precisely, without distortion. Lots of air moving.

 

Physics.

 

Just some people can think creatively, others can only think about what they already know.

 

Reality.

 

Look, the Phantom may not be that good. But why be so narrow and closed minded? Devialet thought about how to get low bass in a small cabinet and came up with an innovative solution. Why don't you wait to find out how it works before dismissing it on the basis of not knowing anything about it?

[boatheelmusic]

22

[boatheelmusic]

Right, my bad.

 

Will be interesting to see.

[Audio_ELF]

Chris, your site is still messed up regarding number of posts shown when logged in vs. logged out. The counter at the top of the page for this article always shows 23 comments. The home page lists 37 comments. When logged out and on the article page 37 comments are visible. When logged in only 26 comments are visible. This makes it impossible to respond to the missing comments especially if you want to quote what someone else has written.

If you go to http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f3-article-comments/ all the posts appear in the relevant thread (as far as I'm aware).

[YashN]

The more I read about the company, its founders, engineers and innovations, the more I am impressed.

 

They started the design from good acoustic principles, but the whole product appears so well made throughout: hardware, software, design, industrial/mechanical design, the intelligent update mechanism, intelligent multi-channel configuration, etc...

 

There are a couple of things I am wondering about though:

 

One is wouldn't it sound better if the drivers and the circuitry weren't in the same enclosure?

 

Secondly, since the system uses SAM, which most probably processes in the PCM domain, I don't see how one could use DSD in native mode with it.

 

Other than that, this looks and works in stunning fashion. Hybrid amplifier technology + SAM + intelligent configuration + upgrade + additional Bass technology...

 

The pictures make it look compact, but it appears quite large, it's certainly larger than a large human head.

 

The industrial design of these is surreal, disturbing and awesome all at the same time...

 

First Naim comes out with Muso (also really cool), and now this. Where does this new all-in-one trend now come from?

 

I hope both win some entirely new people to high quality audio!

[YashN]

edit: just read the white paper. The technology is seriously impressive.

 

I second that, but it's more of a marketing white paper rather than tech-oriented. I would love to more about what they do. The hybrid amp technology and SAM are great to read about.

 

Perhaps the most interesting thing read this week about audio, together with the MQA patent...

[YashN]

16-25 is what I've seen.

 

Well these look very interesting. If they are truly flat from 20-20k

[YashN]

I don't think so: they also integrate Devialet's own SAM processing to effectively optimize the drivers handling sub 150Hz bass on a sample-per-sample basis. Additionally, their own amplifiers ( a special type of hybrid digital-analog) are used to move the drivers.

 

I would expect this to result in a significant amount of bass bloat due the the time it takes for the drivers to move that far.

[YashN]

LOL. Nope!

 

Didn't Bose do this already (small drivers, mucho equalization) in 1968?

 

No free lunch, guys!

[boatheelmusic]

YashN, indeed.

[Skeptic]

16-25 is what I've seen.

They claim:

20-20k ±0.5 dB

16-25k ±2 dB

Secondly, since the system uses SAM, which most probably processes in the PCM domain, I don't see how one could use DSD in native mode with it.

The DAC used is a TI PCM1798, which does seem to support DSD.

However they only list 24-bit/192kHz in the specs. I suspect that it will only be used for PCM due to the additional processing they do.

[firedog]

I second that, but it's more of a marketing white paper rather than tech-oriented. I would love to more about what they do. The hybrid amp technology and SAM are great to read about.

 

Perhaps the most interesting thing read this week about audio, together with the MQA patent...

 

Yes, the white paper is more marketing than tech, but people are posting about how the device "can't work"; the white paper does explain how it can, at least potentially.

[firedog]

They claim:

20-20k ±0.5 dB

16-25k ±2 dB

The DAC used is a TI PCM1798, which does seem to support DSD.

However they only list 24-bit/192kHz in the specs. I suspect that it will only be used for PCM due to the additional processing they do.

 

Acc'd to a Devialet dealer I talked to at an audition of the 120, DSD support is being added in early 2015 to Devialet units. Also not sure if SAM can integrate with DSD.

[YashN]

There is some other paper which goes into more detail about SAM on their site, which is interesting. Haven't seen anything with more details about the Heart Bass technology though.

 

As for the people who say this can't work, I wouldn't waste a lot of time with them...

 

Yes, the white paper is more marketing than tech, but people are posting about how the device "can't work"; the white paper does explain how it can, at least potentially.

[YashN]

This is great news.

 

It really represents their philosophy about the EVO platform, i.e. non-obsolescence as much as possible.

 

I guess the implementation is thanks to the included FPGA somewhere and not the PCM DAC chip.

 

Now, the thing is they should be fine using SAM on PCM and then up-converting that to DSD 2x if the end-user so chooses, or else just plain outputting the usual PCM.

 

But, on playing back a pure DSD 2x file, I am not sure we'd want to do an intermediate DSD->PCM to use SAM and then re-convert that back to DSD 2x to output it.

 

In other words, I am curious to see if they can do SAM and Native DSD together.

 

Maybe they have something up their sleeves, I don't know.

 

 

Acc'd to a Devialet dealer I talked to at an audition of the 120, DSD support is being added in early 2015 to Devialet units. Also not sure if SAM can integrate with DSD.

[krass]

the theory is great and it's nice to see the innovation. the difficulty will be controlling the drivers under these large excursions. Most electro-mechanical systems like this (eg speaker cones) are most linear under minimum displacement, the more they move the more non-linearity, which Is why traditionally bass drivers use big diameter cones. The trick will be to maintain linearity (what goes in comes out) with the large excursions.

 

that's I guess where SAM and DSP comes in; if they do it right it will be ®evolutionary. if they don't get it right it'll fall short of Hifi and just be a sort of super-Bose.

 

Personally I love the innovation from the company and hope it's a stunning product. time will tell.

[YashN]

Yep, SAM helps with that among other things. Check their paper on it on the website.

 

But I would add that it's also the driver form (it's convex, not concave as traditional drivers) and the way it is propelled thanks to their hybrid amp technology that also help.

[Youreye]

the black one looks sick! This speaker reminds me a lot of the B&W PV1 Subwoofer

[Distinctive]

the black one looks sick! This speaker reminds me a lot of the B&W PV1 Subwoofer

I have only seen it in white and chrome - where did you see it in black?

[Skeptic]

I have only seen it in white and chrome - where did you see it in black?

The prototype here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/attachments/15934d1418783252-img_0214.jpg/

[Youreye]

I have only seen it in white and chrome - where did you see it in black?

 

Yes, it seems that there is no black option for now but I guess it will be highly desired?

[catastrofe]

For the sake of (seemingly) independent journalism, it is absolutely critical that it be disclosed when a junket is made and the products reported on. I find it surprising that you didn't declare this initially in the article you wrote.

 

Be careful that you don't become a shill for too many manufacturers, or the loss of respect as an independent voice will soon follow.

 

As someone who has written product reviews for publications in the past (not audio), I can speak from a similar perspective, and feel it is imperative that a certain distance be maintained. Everyone has their own level of comfort with this, and I'm not saying that anything was done wrong at all. Just be thoughtful.

 

I wasn't aware that Chris is a shill for any manufacturers. . .

And how many is too many?

[PT109]

Hello Chris,

 

Could you answer a couple of questions inre to these insane Phantoms.

 

Do you have to purchase the Dialog to get it to play music independent of their system?

 

If not....using a wifi set-up of your own, exactly how does it interface with ones home network? Laptop/Tablet/PC hooked up to home wifi?

 

700 watts & 3000 watts? Are they serious.....really! The Phantom putting out sound levels comporable to giant towers or am I reading it wrong? This little thing will sound as loud as Audio systems 5 times its size! Truly amazing!

[wisnon]

That's the same thing I was thinking. I' will hold any observations until someone hears it.

 

Looks more like a Tye fighter or a droid/probe from Oblivion.