HQPlayer Desktop 3.4.0 for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X released!

[juliocat]

Anybody with an Audio-GD DAC with USB32 input has success with DSD output??

 

My NFB-7 DAC works with Audirvana+ and Jriver in DSD mode, but i get only silence with HQPlayer

[Miska]

Anybody with an Audio-GD DAC with USB32 input has success with DSD output??

 

My NFB-7 DAC works with Audirvana+ and Jriver in DSD mode, but i get only silence with HQPlayer

 

If you could email me a log file it could possibly contain useful information...

[juliocat]

If you could email me a log file it could possibly contain useful information...

 

Sure, where is located??

[juliocat]

Sure, where is located??

 

I figured it out here is the log file

 

HQPlayer.log.txt

[Miska]

I figured it out here is the log file

 

[ATTACH]14576[/ATTACH]

 

Everything looks OK. I didn't spot any obvious problem. Is the output silent with both PCM and SDM output mode? Just to be sure, could you try enabling volume control for -6 to 0 dB range and setting volume to -3 dB?

[juliocat]

Sounds beautiful in PCM mode, flac aiff and dsd, converted to pcm, the best sounding player of all, but only silence in SDM mode.

 

I set volumen to -3 dB but is the same no sound.

[EuroDriver]

Sounds beautiful in PCM mode, flac aiff and dsd, converted to pcm, the best sounding player of all, but only silence in SDM mode.

 

I set volumen to -3 dB but is the same no sound.

 

which filter are you using in SDM mode ?

[Miska]

Sounds beautiful in PCM mode, flac aiff and dsd, converted to pcm, the best sounding player of all, but only silence in SDM mode.

 

It could be a feature of the DAC firmware, I would ask the DAC manufacturer if it's handling DoP correctly in 32-bit sample packet.

 

I set volumen to -3 dB but is the same no sound.

 

The result should be the same, I just wanted to confirm this.

[juliocat]

which filter are you using in SDM mode ?

 

I'm using poly-sinc-mp upsampling to 352 or 384.

[juliocat]

It could be a feature of the DAC firmware, I would ask the DAC manufacturer if it's handling DoP correctly in 32-bit sample packet.

 

I have found that Decibel shows the same behavior as HQPlayer with DSD, so i'll check with Kingwa at Audio-GD.

[Jazzed Up]

Can I ask if possible where do you download HQ Player from please and how much does it cost to purchase if you like it after the trial?.

 

Thanks

 

Think I've found it now myself apologies.

[Bob Stern]

One possibility to achieve it is to drag-and-drop highest level folder of your music library from Finder on the HQPlayer window which results in all contained (supported) files being added to the playlist. Beware that this operation may take a while to complete... And then save it as a playlist for future use. You can then start random playback.

Will the resulting playlist update to include new tracks you subsequently add to your music library?

 

Will HQP recognize edits you subsequently make to the tags?

[Miska]

Will the resulting playlist update to include new tracks you subsequently add to your music library?

 

No, those need to be added manually.

 

Library is updated by scanning given directory and it automatically avoids duplicates. So what I usually do when I've added new content is to use "Add tree" button in the Library dialog and point it to a suitable location.

 

HQPlayer doesn't have any single place for the library, it can be collection of content from different places such as local HDD and NAS, so it cannot do monitoring on changes.

 

Will HQP recognize edits you subsequently make to the tags?

 

Yes and no, some of the metadata (items shown in Library dialog) is stored as a copy in the library for quick access and can be edited in the Library dialog without changing the source files. This data is not updated from the files to avoid losing edits. However, when track is playing, the actual tag content from the file is shown in the status area.

[Vitor]

Hi Miska, can you send me another trial version for windows?

I've just reached to the conclusion that the problems i had with pcm to dsd conversion are related to the fact that my dac doesnt have ASIO drivers for OSX. I want to try with another machine (a toshiba netbook) but the trial expired.

TIA

[EuroDriver]

I finally got back to my primary system, and downloaded and installed HQP 3.4.1

 

 

I am stunned by how much better it sounds, I was not expecting this. The cymbals on the 24/192 Kind of Blue remaster > DSD 256 sounds like the best vinyl I ever heard. I could swear that 3.4.1 sounds better than the previous version.

 

 

The setup time for 16/44 > DSD 256 is about 35 seconds compared to 2 minutes before. If a new playlist has the same format, then there is no wait. The useability of HQP for me has taken a major leap.

 

I am still waiting for the Exasound Linux driver, but it's hard to imagine that the SQ could be better

 

Miska, two thumbs up and a high five !

[freesteve]

Miska... where can I download the current manual for OSX. Thank you...

[freesteve]

Silly question but let me ask it anyhow. With HQ Player... When using Mac, volume on Mac should be minimal, volume on HQ minimal and then control the volume via your DAC for the best sound quality, right? Wrong??

[EuroDriver]

Silly question but let me ask it anyhow. With HQ Player... When using Mac, volume on Mac should be minimal, volume on HQ minimal and then control the volume via your DAC for the best sound quality, right? Wrong??

 

what at sounds best is very dependant on your DAC and / or pre amp and YMMV

 

i like my HQ Player sound best with HQP at max volume and Exasound DAC doing the volume control

[ericuco]

Miska... where can I download the current manual for OSX. Thank you...

 

The manual is available at i-cat.biz/pdf/HQPlayer-manual.pdf (just do a Google search on "hq player manual")

 

As for volume control, EuroDriver is correct - HQP is set at max with DAC/Preamp controlling the volume, at least for me. However, there are some volume settings in HQP that need attention according the manual if doing PCM > SDM (DSD) conversion. The manual suggests setting the max volume to -3dB due to potential digital clipping.

 

Specifically:

 

"Note! Overloading the delta-sigma modulator in SDM mode will cause audible noises. It is recommended to keep software volume at max -3 dB setting or lower when using PCM to SDM conversion to avoid overloading the delta-sigma modulator. Maximum modulation depth is monitored and when necessary limited to 50% as per SACD specification"

 

I had recently asked Miska about volume control and his reply was:

 

"I usually set the range to be from -6 to 0 dBFS and then keep the volume set to -3 dBFS. You can also fine tune it such way that "Limited" counter stays at 0. In many cases -2 dBFS should be enough (for example Wolfson DAC chips use -2 dB), but -3 dBFS should keep it completely safe. When "DirectSDM" is set in DSDIFF/DSF Settings, volume control is disabled for DSD output. In this case, PCM->DSD conversion volume defaults to -3 dBFS (and DSD->DSD is passed through bit-perfect)."

[Superdad]

The manual is available at i-cat.biz/pdf/HQPlayer-manual.pdf

 

That is a link to the manual for a really old version (3.1). The new manual, with cover page saying 3.4.1, is in the folder with the download of the program. Just get it from there.

[freesteve]

Thank you for the manual info...

The manual is available at i-cat.biz/pdf/HQPlayer-manual.pdf (just do a Google search on "hq player manual")

 

As for volume control, EuroDriver is correct - HQP is set at max with DAC/Preamp controlling the volume, at least for me. However, there are some volume settings in HQP that need attention according the manual if doing PCM > SDM (DSD) conversion. The manual suggests setting the max volume to -3dB due to potential digital clipping.

 

Specifically:

 

"Note! Overloading the delta-sigma modulator in SDM mode will cause audible noises. It is recommended to keep software volume at max -3 dB setting or lower when using PCM to SDM conversion to avoid overloading the delta-sigma modulator. Maximum modulation depth is monitored and when necessary limited to 50% as per SACD specification"

 

I had recently asked Miska about volume control and his reply was:

 

"I usually set the range to be from -6 to 0 dBFS and then keep the volume set to -3 dBFS. You can also fine tune it such way that "Limited" counter stays at 0. In many cases -2 dBFS should be enough (for example Wolfson DAC chips use -2 dB), but -3 dBFS should keep it completely safe. When "DirectSDM" is set in DSDIFF/DSF Settings, volume control is disabled for DSD output. In this case, PCM->DSD conversion volume defaults to -3 dBFS (and DSD->DSD is passed through bit-perfect)."

[Miska]

However, there are some volume settings in HQP that need attention according the manual if doing PCM > SDM (DSD) conversion. The manual suggests setting the max volume to -3dB due to potential digital clipping.

 

I should be more explicit that this applies also to PCM upsampling. Reason are inter-sample overs in digital filters, higher the ratio, more it can go over. This happens especially with material that has been normalized to 0 dBFS peak level in digital domain at 44.1 kHz sampling rate.

 

And also because digital filter can partially recover clipped peaks when the source material contains digital clipping. Which is almost every CD, some more, some less, most recent pop/rock CD's are almost always constantly clipping thanks to loudness war...

 

But overall guideline is to keep eye on "Limited" counter and make sure it stays a 0 at all times. So far I've never seen it moving with -3 dBFS volume setting thus the recommendation. There's a smooth level limiter that kicks in when necessary, "Limited" counter indicates this operation (plus some other watchdog stuff for DSD output such as modulation index limit). So you may not hear when it happens.

[Superdad]

I should be more explicit that this applies also to PCM upsampling. Reason are inter-sample overs in digital filters, higher the ratio, more it can go over. This happens especially with material that has been normalized to 0 dBFS peak level in digital domain at 44.1 kHz sampling rate.

 

And also because digital filter can partially recover clipped peaks when the source material contains digital clipping. Which is almost every CD, some more, some less, most recent pop/rock CD's are almost always constantly clipping thanks to loudness war...

 

But overall guideline is to keep eye on "Limited" counter and make sure it stays a 0 at all times. So far I've never seen it moving with -3 dBFS volume setting thus the recommendation. There's a smooth level limiter that kicks in when necessary, "Limited" counter indicates this operation (plus some other watchdog stuff for DSD output such as modulation index limit). So you may not hear when it happens.

 

 

Miska:

 

It is funny, I have not had my volume setting in HQP at anything less than 0 dBFS and with my large test track playlist of about 40 files I only saw a "Limited" count (7) on one out of all those. And this is all PCM stuff off various rates. Guess that most of those tracks are properly mastered; then again I rawly use rock tracks for testing (the one in the test playlist that did overload was Ryan Adams "Come Pick Me Up" as it is quite good dynamically and musically). Tonight I will be venturing out into my vastly larger and more varied music library, and I'll keep an eye on the "Limited" counter.

 

One favor though: In your next revision, can you make it so the Limited counter resets to zero after each track? Right now the only way to reset it is to press the "Stop" button between tracks.

 

Also, why is it that all current items in the Transport window (even if from a loaded playlist) vanish right after going to the preferences window? That is inconvenient.

 

Lastly, is there any way to make it so that clicking on a spot along the playback progress line actually jumps playback to that point in the track? Right now, the dot jumps to the clicked spot but then jumps right back to where the track was playing. The only way to advance to a place in the track is to "grab" the dot and drag it along the playback line. But that is noisy as one hears some of the track while doing that depending upon how fast the dot is dragged.

 

Sounding fantastic here. Thanks!

--Alex C.

[Miska]

It is funny, I have not had my volume setting in HQP at anything less than 0 dBFS and with my large test track playlist of about 40 files I only saw a "Limited" count (7) on one out of all those.

 

The absolute value doesn't tell much once the limiter has been kicked, so it is better to try to keep the count at 0. Oversampling DAC chips usually internally have volume limited by some dB number against their real output range, even if you set the available volume control to 0. Wolfson has a configuration option for this and they document their value being -2 dBFS.

 

So a good way to discover right value is to lower the volume setting and play the same set again from the beginning to see if it then stays at 0.

 

I want to use the opportunity to once again remind that whenever you do any processing (upsampling, volume, etc) with PCM, always select some dither, for example the standard TPDF. Sometimes it is also good to select "DAC bits" explicitly to make sure you are not trying to send out more bits than the DAC actually has. Especially if you use something like S/PDIF to a 16-bit DAC. If the DAC is 24-bit or less, selecting the actual number of bits it has is good way to be sure.

 

One favor though: In your next revision, can you make it so the Limited counter resets to zero after each track? Right now the only way to reset it is to press the "Stop" button between tracks.

 

It is reset when the player engine is re-initialized...

 

Also, why is it that all current items in the Transport window (even if from a loaded playlist) vanish right after going to the preferences window? That is inconvenient.

 

Because the player performs almost complete internal "reboot"... Even more so now (3.4 and later) when you can switch the backend on-the-fly. Usually there shouldn't be need to go there, unless you want to switch backend?

 

Lastly, is there any way to make it so that clicking on a spot along the playback progress line actually jumps playback to that point in the track?

 

I'll look into that for next release.

[Superdad]

The absolute value doesn't tell much once the limiter has been kicked, so it is better to try to keep the count at 0. Oversampling DAC chips usually internally have volume limited by some dB number against their real output range, even if you set the available volume control to 0. Wolfson has a configuration option for this and they document their value being -2 dBFS.

 

So a good way to discover right value is to lower the volume setting and play the same set again from the beginning to see if it then stays at 0.

 

I want to use the opportunity to once again remind that whenever you do any processing (upsampling, volume, etc) with PCM, always select some dither, for example the standard TPDF. Sometimes it is also good to select "DAC bits" explicitly to make sure you are not trying to send out more bits than the DAC actually has. Especially if you use something like S/PDIF to a 16-bit DAC. If the DAC is 24-bit or less, selecting the actual number of bits it has is good way to be sure.

 

Miska:

 

Thank you for the response. The last couple of hours I just spent with HQP were a revelation--and a BIG advancement for my system--for two reasons:

 

1) I previously had not been using any dither/noise shaping with my NOS PCM1704K DAC (just enjoying Poly-sinc short up to 176.4KHz). I had tried some early on a month or so ago when I was still experimenting and finding favorite filter. But coming from the somewhat unforgiving version of A+ and the iZotope settings I had been using, the dither options of HQP did not do much for me at the time. Yet after the A+/HQP/NAA comparisons I had been doing this past weekend (see my long post about those at: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index11.html#post356442), and with the prompting you gave here above, I just now went through a number of your dither/shaping options.

 

Wow, they really make a startling difference. I started out just with TPDF, and that was nice. But oh my, NS1, NS4, NS5, and NS9 are where it is at! Piano timbre, detail in cymbals, horn nuance (who would have thought the dither/NS setting could so radically alter the sound of a clarinet?). Right now I am between NS4 and NS5, but I am sure I will settle on one after more extensive listening. And I'll give some more time to NS9 as well.

 

2) The even greater SQ jump, and the BIG SHOCKER for me today is the "DAC bits" setting. Holy shit!

After you mentioned it, I remembered that A+ always reports my DAC as being 32-bits. But that is because my XMOS-based, async-USB input card (a Luckit WaveIO) is 32-bit capable. So it got me wondering if HQP was seeing it that way and sending it 32-bit data. Of course, my PCM1704K is only 24-bit (if that in the real world), so I adjusted HQP down to 24-bit. Whoa, all sorts of detail--and really a whole sense of the instrumental envelope being more complete--leapt forth. NOTHING SMALL OR SUBTLE! Really a giant step where I thought there were only small steps left. I went back an forth a few times with multiple tracks, and there is no denying the significant improvement. I even tried 22-bit setting, but that smeared cymbals and took other stuff away.

 

All I can say is a million thanks and to keep these helpful tips coming! Just amazing.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. Now that I have dither/NS on, I tried your volume control again. Sorry, but anything below about -6dBFS sounds really BAD to me (even when I turn my preamp back up to compensate). And I found that just a -1 cut takes care of all the "over-limits" with any of the tracks I have played.