Should I choose a Sonos or a Mac Mini?

[Abolive]

Hello all,

 

I just put my Linn Majik DSI for sale, because I was fed up with the control software (Kinsky). Everytime I want to use it, it takes ages to show the library, when it does not crash. One told me it is because it scans the library on the network everytime instead of using a local cache. A shame, its sound was great.

I was going to take the Sonos route, as I don't have HD tracks yet and want to use Spotify as well.

The plan was to get it with a Synchro Mesh and a Metrum Octave.

I'm a vinyl lover and it was planned for casual listening but before pulling the trigger, I'm wondering if I won't miss the opportunity of better sonics with a Mac Mini.

The question is: using a Mac Mini can I have the same speed and ergonomics to control my music as the Sonos? Will there be an important improvement compared to Sonos/Synchro Mesh/Metrum Octave for Red Book material? and can I stream spotify the same way as with the Sonos?

 

Thanks a lot guys!

[Paul R]

Hello all,

 

I just put my Linn Majik DSI for sale, because I was fed up with the control software (Kinsky). Everytime I want to use it, it takes ages to show the library, when it does not crash. One told me it is because it scans the library on the network everytime instead of using a local cache. A shame, its sound was great.

I was going to take the Sonos route, as I don't have HD tracks yet and want to use Spotify as well.

The plan was to get it with a Synchro Mesh and a Metrum Octave.

I'm a vinyl lover and it was planned for casual listening but before pulling the trigger, I'm wondering if I won't miss the opportunity of better sonics with a Mac Mini.

The question is: using a Mac Mini can I have the same speed and ergonomics to control my music as the Sonos? Will there be an important improvement compared to Sonos/Synchro Mesh/Metrum Octave for Red Book material? and can I stream spotify the same way as with the Sonos?

 

Thanks a lot guys!

 

Well, some people just love Sono's more than anything else, but personally, I think JRMC on a Mac with JRemote on an iPad is the cat's meow. It is far better than pretty much any other combination I have found.

 

In terms of sonics, a Mac Mini is right up there with the top performers. You can even, should you wish, run Windows on it.

 

And if JRemote and JRMC don't float your boat, there are a half dozen other really *good* players that run on MacOS. Amarra, Pure Music, Fidelia, and more.

 

-Paul

[gocubs42]

Paul JRiver on the Mac Mini with JRemote sounds like a great match. So what would you recommend for Spotify access and control on the mini? Thanks

[flatmap]

Another big LP fan here. Two vintage TT's and one modern and heaven knows how many LPs....

 

Going with a computer is much more flexible and a bit more 'future-proof.' I'd say the ergonomics/usability is going to be similar, but there are many more choices up front compared to Sonos. With Sonos you'll just read how to use its set configuration and that's pretty much it. As with Linn, you are spared fiddling with the computer, but stuck with what they provide you.

 

Thus, it is exactly these choices you have to make for computer configuration and playback (type of music player software, where to house your music files, format of files, backup process, remote control, music library, integer stream to DAC, etc.) which gives flexibility in the long term. And there's every reason to think there will be more high res material in the future, so going the computer audio route is far more likely to let you to take maximum advantage of it.

[Paul R]

Paul JRiver on the Mac Mini with JRemote sounds like a great match. So what would you recommend for Spotify access and control on the mini? Thanks

 

Spotify apparently did not want to work with JRiver in doing this, so there is not a perfect solution for playing Spotify. However, you can use the loopback facility in JRMC to playback almost anything. I am not positive if that works on a Mac Mini, but I think it should.

 

I don't listen a lot to Spotify anymore. I tend to stream the higher bandwidth radio stations from the net, which works perfectly well with JRMC and JRemote.

 

Perhaps, as a temporary, choice - until JRiver gets Spotify perfectly integrated - is to use the Spotify app and any of the several remote control apps available for it. It can run simultaneously with JRMC, so long as you don't try to use them both at the same time.

 

Or another choice is to just stream Spotify from your iPad to the Mac Mini. That works pretty well.

 

It is a shame, but nothing is perfect. Yet!

 

-Paul

[gocubs42]

Paul thanks yea I knew Spotify and JRiver didn't work together, I was just hoping for a solution. LMS/squeeezelite is a good match for Spotify and your stored music playing well together on a Mac Mini. Any thoughts?

[ErikM]

Depends on how you plan to use the device. Sonos is the $hit for doing multi room, (I've had four zones in my house for about 7 years now) it has a great interface and it is super super stable.. it just works. It can also sound very good but it requires at least the W4S mod, or a Empirical Re-clocker. Sonos will not do Hi-Res, it will most likely never do Hi-Res, it's not their market and they aren't interested in hi performance audio.

 

If you are looking to do just one room then the device to get in my opinion is the soon to be release AURALIC ARIES.. It looks to be the streaming device of the year.. it'll be reasonably priced it looks KILLER and if AURALIC gets the software down it'll be a game changer..

AURALiC Debuts the ARIES Streamer Bridge | AudioStream

[TimU]

I will second the idea that Sonos is a very good choice for a multi-zone system. Sonos streams not only Spotify, but Mog, Pandora, Rdio, Rhapsody, really every streaming service there is. Another Sonos sonic upgrade in addition to those mentioned is the Arcam SonLink:

 

SonLink - Wired DACs - Arcam

[Paul R]

Paul thanks yea I knew Spotify and JRiver didn't work together, I was just hoping for a solution. LMS/squeeezelite is a good match for Spotify and your stored music playing well together on a Mac Mini. Any thoughts?

 

LMS/Squeezeboxen/squeeze*software was my path of choice until I saw JREmote.

 

I'm not kidding when I say that is the best remote software around, and good enough to switch audio players and even OS preferences for.

 

The nail in the coffin for Sonos, for me at least, is no hi-res playback. By the way, did I mention the JRMC is free to put on additional computers, and streams every bit as good as Sonos? Oh, and JREmote easily controls all that streaming. Even sending different program material to different zones if you wish? (Grin)

[Abolive]

Hi

Thanks for inputs. Indeed the advantages of Sonos arr his sins, ie a closed system. But as some put it "it just works". JRemote looks interesting. Does it offer the same stability and speed as the Sonos? My system has become quite complex for my wife (air bearing tonearm, tubes..) and I want to her to listen to music easily

[Paul R]

Hi

Thanks for inputs. Indeed the advantages of Sonos arr his sins, ie a closed system. But as some put it "it just works". JRemote looks interesting. Does it offer the same stability and speed as the Sonos? My system has become quite complex for my wife (air bearing tonearm, tubes..) and I want to her to listen to music easily

 

All I can say is my wife has it on the first page of both her iPad and iPhone.

 

Not only does it control all your zones and players, you hook a set of headphones to the iPad and iPhone, and you have your entire music library available to stream.

 

It has never crashed on me, or on Karen. I would have heard about right quick if it did.

[realhifi]

Paul JRiver on the Mac Mini with JRemote sounds like a great match. So what would you recommend for Spotify access and control on the mini? Thanks

 

There is a small program which works with the Mac Mini and iPad which lets you play Spotify on the Mac and control it from the iPad. It is called Remoteless. That way you can still control everything from your iPad which makes it easy for family members. This way of playing Spotify is the superior sounding way to play on a music system in my opinion and many are shocked when they hear it.

 

Screen shots of iPad control.

[flatmap]

Hi

[...] My system has become quite complex for my wife (air bearing tonearm, tubes..) and I want to her to listen to music easily

 

Completely off topic, but could you share what air compressor setup you're using? I'm getting an Eminent Technology ET-2 back in action.. but curious about what you chose.

[ErikM]

But JREmote is a software program. It's really not comparable to Sonos.. Unless I'm mistaken you need to have a computer and some other gear to use JREmote.. But what if I don't want a computer in each room?? What if I just want music? What if I just want little self contained speakers? I'm not saying that JREmote isn't a great program but it's really apples and oranges..

 

And yeah I agree about Sonos lack of HIRES support, ultimately I think it will hurt them. Unfortunately their current hardware can't support anything but redbook.. which for their intended market is fine.. again if one wants a TURNKEY non techie multi room system that simply works, with very little interaction with computers and a whole host of hardware options to implement it, Sonos is very hard to beat..

 

 

LMS/Squeezeboxen/squeeze*software was my path of choice until I saw JREmote.

 

I'm not kidding when I say that is the best remote software around, and good enough to switch audio players and even OS preferences for.

 

The nail in the coffin for Sonos, for me at least, is no hi-res playback. By the way, did I mention the JRMC is free to put on additional computers, and streams every bit as good as Sonos? Oh, and JREmote easily controls all that streaming. Even sending different program material to different zones if you wish? (Grin)

[Paul R]

With Sonos, uou need one computer somewhere holding your local music library. Sonos does not just magically grab all your music out of the air. That requisite computer can be a NAS or other specialized server, yes, but you still have to have it.

 

The Sono's controller application, Like JRemote or Apple's REMOTE.app, is pure software and has to run on an iPad, Android, dedicated remote, or something similar.

 

JRMC can stream to any DLNA appliance, such as receivers. Or to dedicated players, or to dedicated players running an instance of JRMC. It will stream hi-res or not, and allows multiple zones to be playing, synchronized to one or more groups.

 

Alternatively, iTunes can stream to any Airplay device, just as easily and as reliably as Sonos. It too is, unfortunately, limited to 16/44.1, so no hi-res streaming. You can do zones though, depending upon the Airplay device you are streaming to. Airplay is built into many different audio devices today, from TVs, speakers systems, and Radios, to High End PrePros, Preamps, and integrated receivers.

 

In short, Sonos has no advantage other than possibly, proprietary hardware.

 

It isn't that I am trashing Sonos either, it is good for what it is. I like Sonos. But there are better and more elegant solutions out there. Some of which even cost less.

 

-Paul

 

 

But JREmote is a software program. It's really not comparable to Sonos.. Unless I'm mistaken you need to have a computer and some other gear to use JREmote.. But what if I don't want a computer in each room?? What if I just want music? What if I just want little self contained speakers? I'm not saying that JREmote isn't a great program but it's really apples and oranges..

 

And yeah I agree about Sonos lack of HIRES support, ultimately I think it will hurt them. Unfortunately their current hardware can't support anything but redbook.. which for their intended market is fine.. again if one wants a TURNKEY non techie multi room system that simply works, with very little interaction with computers and a whole host of hardware options to implement it, Sonos is very hard to beat..

[Abolive]

I got an ET2 and use wisa pumps. 1 500 or 600 +1 300. Works well no maintenance.

About Hi Res I don't have any at the moment and red book can sound awesome with a good system. But for the future it is interesting. I don't care about multiroom. You always have me convinced but I'm really interested in the user experience with JRemote or sth else: Kinsky was far too long to display my library from a handheld device and I had to browse slowly or it would crash. Does a Mac Mini control SW allow to browse quickly instantaneously as does Sonos? That's my main concern. It is the case all the arguments for a Mini make would the make sense for me.

Thanks guys keep it coming!

[Abolive]

I got some spare Wisa pumps if you want (PM me)

[Paul R]

I got an ET2 and use wisa pumps. 1 500 or 600 +1 300. Works well no maintenance.

About Hi Res I don't have any at the moment and red book can sound awesome with a good system. But for the future it is interesting. I don't care about multiroom. You always have me convinced but I'm really interested in the user experience with JRemote or sth else: Kinsky was far too long to display my library from a handheld device and I had to browse slowly or it would crash. Does a Mac Mini control SW allow to browse quickly instantaneously as does Sonos? That's my main concern. It is the case all the arguments for a Mini make would the make sense for me.

Thanks guys keep it coming!

 

(Grin)

 

JRMC has a 30 day trial, but you would have to invest $10 for JRemote- still that would allow you to try it for yourself. So long as you have an iPad. You can load JRMC indr Windows or MacOS.

 

Very fast, but a little dependent upon the machine JRMC is running on. A nice i5 or i7 machine runs provides great performance. A single core Atom might be a little slow.

[flatmap]

I got some spare Wisa pumps if you want (PM me)

 

Abolive, thanks for the offer. PM sent.

[Abolive]

Of course you're right I'll try it straight away

I guess it can give me a fair preview

[DaQi]

Having a hybrid system with both of these options running my thoughts... For multi-room non audiophile listening the Sonos is fantastic as it just works. My kids have them in their rooms and love it and find it easy to use on their iPad. For audiophile or critical listening the Jriver/Jremote and whatever computer you choose is a great option. I am a windows person but I am sure the experience would be similar on a mac mini. The JRemote app on the iPad is awesome.

 

Now the cool thing for me is that I have these two systems combined. JRiver/Jremote see all my Sonos boxes in the house so for me I use that combination. The JRiver app automatically downsamples any hi-res audio to the Sonos boxes so I don't have to think about that at all. I can send my music from JRiver to any Sonos box in the house and it works seamlessly. If I want to listen to Spotify I just pop over the Sonos App and I have it available through that anywhere in the house through a Sonos box.

 

I have had the Sonos boxes almost since they first came out and they work flawlessly. I started playing around with computer audio in my attempts to get away from iTunes as it was driving me nuts and that is when I discovered JRiver. As I was getting that all working one day I noticed all my Sonos boxes showing up in JRiver and lo and behold it all just worked.

 

So, in some sense no need to choose between them as you can use both and integrate them.

[Abolive]

Thank you. Something I cannot wrap my head about. I understand that jitter from a source can affect the sound even if it is bit perfect. If jitter is taken care of, where is the difference in SQ between Mac Mini and Sonos for Ed Book? How come that power supply upgrades or softwares add differences before the DAC?

[Paul R]

Sonos shows up as a zone in JRMC? Oooookkkkkaaaayyyyyy, time to pull the Sonos Play3 out of the closet and see how that works!

[TimU]

Sonos zones also show up in the Synology DS Audio app. That allows me to stream music from my Synology NAS to the Sonos whether or not the music has been indexed by Sonos. That's handy for me as I have more than the 65000 tracks that Sonos can supposedly index. I am going to see if I getting get any additional functionality by mixing in JRiver as DaQi suggests.

 

I think if your collection is Redbook only, you should consider Sonos very seriously. What it does it does very well.

[Paul R]

Thank you. Something I cannot wrap my head about. I understand that jitter from a source can affect the sound even if it is bit perfect. If jitter is taken care of, where is the difference in SQ between Mac Mini and Sonos for Ed Book? How come that power supply upgrades or softwares add differences before the DAC?

 

This is not 100% conclusive, so take it with a grain of salt. Bit Perfect refers to the digital data only - meaning the data is exactly the same when it reaches the DAC as it was when it was sitting on the disk. Just as you expect a Word Document file on your computer to be perfectly accurate when read in off the disk.

 

An example of a non Bit Perfect stream would be when your player software takes a red book quality file (16/44.1) and up samples it to a high res stream (24/192). I am sure you can see some of the implications there, as up sampling in this case does not add or restore any information that was lost when the original recording was down sampled to be a red book CD quality file. It might sound better, but the reasons for that are different. I personally upsample everything on my system to DSD128, and love the improvement in sound and Musicality.

 

Now jitter, and all the semi related issues like RFI, EMI, cable geometry, and so forth all apply to the very analog signal that carries that digital data down a cable. It is still a little bit of a controversial issue with some people, but cables that do not affect the digital data at all do seem to have an effect on the sound. There is much more controversy over whether extremely expensive cables are worth their cost, but at the core, it all boils down to transmitting that analog signal down a wire. Even applies, to a lesser extent, when using optical transmission of the digital data. (grin)

 

this is isn't a rabbit hole, it is a tar pit. Some folks, notably the fellows over on the gasbag forum, feel that any sonic differences from cables are imaginary, and anyone who says different is deluded and a fool. They take an extreme view of course, but since they claim "SCIENCE" is on their side, some people are convinced by their mayhem and foolishness.

 

The sometimes heated discussions here generally reveal more science, and a deeper understanding of the science behind the issues than anywhere else I can think of publicly available on the Internet. Still controversial, but more intelligent and with more talent. You might try searching for and reading a few of them.

 

But the bottom line is, until you listen to it in your system and decide for yourself, the information available is just so much noise. Especially in this case, YMMV!

 

Paul