Hard Drives Make a Difference in Sound

[Boris75]

If so, is it stronger or weaker than the effect of SATA cables?

[89reksal]

Hi coxhaus,

 

Re: picture of cable. I don't do anything fancy or scientific. I cut off 2 or 3 inches of tinfoil, lay the cable in it lengthwise, cut the tin foil so it's just long enough to go the length of the cable, up to the connectors. So the cable itself is all that has tin foil. I don't do anything with the connectors. Then I just start folding the cable over in the tin foil, which seems to end up as 3 or 4 layers of foil. I don't worry about it being tight or anything. The electrical tape is what tightens it down. Then I start with the tape at one end and wrap it tightly around the length of the cable. I do try and overlap a little tape on the connectors, but probably only 1/4" or so. That's all there is. I've only done this to two cables so far. I know nothing about the theory of shielding, nothing's grounded. As far as I know, all I'm doing is covering the cable exterior with tin foil.

 

As far as the package, it's the Coboc cable linked above, but the package itself has no brand name on it anywhere. It's just a clear plastic bag, just big enough to hold the cable, with one side a white colour and the other side clear, to see the cable inside. The main number looks to be SC-SATA3-6-LL-BL. There's a number above that as well, 12-422-791. It also says 6 inch, UV BLUE, MADE IN CHINA in the lower right corner.

[89reksal]

If so, is it stronger or weaker than the effect of SATA cables?

 

Thanks for the constructive contribution. Very helpful.

[Deaf Cat]

Hi coxhaus,

 

Re: picture of cable. I don't do anything fancy or scientific. I cut off 2 or 3 inches of tinfoil, lay the cable in it lengthwise, cut the tin foil so it's just long enough to go the length of the cable, up to the connectors. So the cable itself is all that has tin foil. I don't do anything with the connectors. Then I just start folding the cable over in the tin foil, which seems to end up as 3 or 4 layers of foil. I don't worry about it being tight or anything. The electrical tape is what tightens it down. Then I start with the tape at one end and wrap it tightly around the length of the cable. I do try and overlap a little tape on the connectors, but probably only 1/4" or so. That's all there is. I've only done this to two cables so far. I know nothing about the theory of shielding, nothing's grounded. As far as I know, all I'm doing is covering the cable exterior with tin foil.

 

As far as the package, it's the Coboc cable linked above, but the package itself has no brand name on it anywhere. It's just a clear plastic bag, just big enough to hold the cable, with one side a white colour and the other side clear, to see the cable inside. The main number looks to be SC-SATA3-6-LL-BL. There's a number above that as well, 12-422-791. It also says 6 inch, UV BLUE, MADE IN CHINA in the lower right corner.

 

Years ago I tried tin foil on my standard amp power lead, just for fun (nothing much on the tv)

Being rather impressed and pleased with the difference, I read a little about shielding, and so earthed the foil, and heard another improvement. :-) cool stuff!

Shame I did not think about foil on the sata cables! I ordered two shielded sata cables a while back, on the other sata cable thread I have put the spec sheet, but I'm still unsure how they are actually earthed if at all. Hope to try them tomorrow.

[pasa66]

SATA 6Gb/s Cable Set

 

this cabe i stronly rekomended,

 

this cabel is that a modified

[pasa66]

SATA 6G Cable Set For Server Barebone

 

look at this

redy to wrap folie,

 

allredy split in two ??

wonder why !!

[coxhaus]

I ordered the ASUS SATA cable SKU 14G000130223 but not from ASUS because they wanted too much for shipping but from eBay with the same part number. It had free shipping.

 

I SATA 6G Cable Set looks like the worst sound SATA cable I already tested above. I am of course not sure but it is too expensive to buy. IF you want to buy it and test it let me know how it sounds.

[pasa66]

when you make the cabel, 50% is to split the cabel and then twist the two part,

 

think howe a cat6/7 kabel i twisted,

 

(twisted in pair, for no EMI!)

[coxhaus]

I feel like a kid in a candy store with all these SATA cables to try. I have found a new favorite thanks to pasa66, it is a Asus SATA 6 gig cable SKU 14G000130223 listed above on the ASUS site.

 

This ASUS SATA cable has all the dynamics of the little 6 inch UV blue cable plus has a better more open top end. I crave the dynamics of these cables over the other SATA cables tested. There is one comment about the 6 inch UV blue cable having boomy bass which I perceive as dynamics in my system. I have 8 12 inch woofers and now 2 REL Stentor III subs and at no time do I hear boomy bass so take this with a grain of salt as to what is best in your system. I believe The ASUS SATA cable to be the best in my system as of today. I know every week I seem to find a better SATA cable but there are just so many out there.

 

I ran the ASUS SATA cable this morning and afternoon in stock form. I took one of the others as I have 4 ASUS SATA cables and split it and wrapped it with foil then twisted it together. I have been running it for a few hours now. It does seem a little better but it is close to the sound in stock form but time will tell as I will continue to run the foil wrapped one and then test against the stock later.

 

I think this test seems to show that shorter is not always better when it comes to SATA cables. The ASUS SATA cable is 18 inches long.

 

If someone has SATA cable which sounds better than an ASUS SATA cable as I believe this is the one to beat now let me know as would like to try it.

[Deaf Cat]

While attempting a cable swap, I turned my pc off, then when it came to re starting, I remembered why I had left it on for the last 8 months, in the process in getting it to start.

 

In the mean time I read about sata and came across this pic:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/SATA3-TwinAxCable.jpg/220px-SATA3-TwinAxCable.jpg

 

This to me may suggest that the cables that have two tracks, may have shielding...?

May be why, some, when covered in foil sound no different... as they are already shielded

 

I have 4 different sata cables to try once up and running looking forward to it :-)

[pasa66]

No SATA cables are made for AUDIO!

This why there is so many un-shielded and poor quality copper Cables DATA is always check by checksum whit delay

[sandyk]

No SATA cables are made for AUDIO!

This why there is so many un-shielded and poor quality copper Cables DATA is always check by checksum whit delay

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but nobody is claiming that there will be any difference due to errors. We are simply saying that SATA3 6GBs cables with their 2 separate screened leads are more immune to RF/EMI pickup from the Motherboard etc. and this rubbish is then less likely to get into groundplanes etc. and affect external devices.

[Deaf Cat]

Well had a few issues with sata and pata that caused boot problems so I had to use one of my sata RE4 500gb that was supposed to go in my nas.

 

Music storage pata WD 500gb came out and the sata RE4 500gb went in, I must say there was a slight change in sound, everything had a bit more body...why, who knows, but I quite like it :-)

 

Win8 OS is on a Seagate 160gb and, as mentioned above music storage is on a 500gb RE4

I have two after market sata cables that I bought recently as I thought I had sata cable problems (boot problems)

 

I swapped out the OS sata cable for the original Lenovo cable (twin run - I guess shielded)

Could not quite believe it but I now have more clarity and best of all somewhat more bass :-D

I swapped out the music hdd for another original Lenovo (twin) slight improvement :-)

 

Is there any theory why an OS cable would make more difference than a music storage cable?

I would have thought the music cable storage cable would have made the larger difference?

 

Any way does not really matter, I will get some more music on shortly :-)

 

Thanks for the Thread, never would have thought of changing sata cables. I may get round to ordering a few of the above recommended cables soon.. going to enjoy some music :-D

 

Cheers!

[Harpy]

If you cache the music from the hard drive on to your systems Ram before it's played would a hard drive and cable matter? By the time it is ready to be played it's already left the hard drive and is sitting in the system memory. From there it goes to a SoTM via USB where the USB power is filtered then signal is reclocked and converted to coax. I could see a difference if the hard drives were feeding the signal directly as the built in hard drive cache sizes and controllers vary.

[sandyk]

If you cache the music from the hard drive on to your systems Ram before it's played would a hard drive and cable matter? By the time it is ready to be played it's already left the hard drive and is sitting in the system memory. From there it goes to a SoTM via USB where the USB power is filtered then signal is reclocked and converted to coax. I could see a difference if the hard drives were feeding the signal directly as the built in hard drive cache sizes and controllers vary.

Many people have reported that files saved on different storage mediums sound different , despite being played from System Memory. Check out the Phasure Forum for example, or the threads in C.A. with the rather long names that were started by Alex Crespi. (Superdad)

[Superdad]

Harpy & SandyK:

 

Let's make sure we are talking about the same things first before any generalizations or conclusions. Based strictly on my own tests and findings (plus results of others), here is what I believe:

 

a) Software player caching (even with players--like Audirvana in my case--which are preloading into RAM for "memory play") is not the same as creating a logical volume "RAM disk." As a (temporary) music storage location/interface, RAM disk is the gold standard against which all other storage/interface methods can be auditioned. And that is even (maybe especially) when using "memory play" music apps. SATA (internal or external), Firewire, USB, Ethernet, SDXC, Thunderbolt--hard drive, flash drive, or SSD--they all fall short of RAM disk to a greater or lesser degree (and I have ranked almost all of them in the threads I started).

 

b) It is the noise (via ground plane or other means) and system activity (bus chips, processor, s/w threads) that are cause of sonic variations between storage/interface methods. It is also helpful to SQ to have all unused drive volumes dismounted/ejected/disconnected--to keep their activity and PS noise from entering.

 

c) The static storage location of a file does not matter to the SQ. In other words, the only thing that matters is the storage/interface from which the file is retrieved by the player software at play time. So having the files on a lousy interface (say an external USB hard drive--really bad sounding to play from or have mounted if you use a USB DAC) does not matter one bit if you first copy the tracks to a RAM disk and direct your player s/w to get them from there (do dismount the USB drive though).

I routinely copy music files between hard drives across the network (and even to the cloud and back), and still the only think that matters is where they are being pulled from by the player s/w (again, with RAM disk clearly being the most coherent/transparent).

 

So Harpy I hope this somewhat answers your question.

 

I am also interested to know if the above is consistent with what others have found.

 

Regards,

 

Alex C.

[kumakuma]

Many people have reported that files saved on different storage mediums sound different , despite being played from System Memory.

 

Many people also report that they sound exactly the same so the only real test is whether they sound different to YOU.

[wgb113]

Anyone see the article showing Seagate drives have the highest failure rates? Pretty eye-opening to me just how bad they are compared to the competition. I always thought they were one of the better brands but it turns out Hitachi is the best from a reliability standpoint.

 

 

Bill

[Superdad]

Anyone see the article showing Seagate drives have the highest failure rates? Pretty eye-opening to me just how bad they are compared to the competition. I always thought they were one of the better brands but it turns out Hitachi is the best from a reliability standpoint.

Bill

 

But please do keep in mind that the report admits that their testing was always on the cheapest parts of the line, and of drives meeting certain criteria for BackBlaze's use. Fo example, they did not test any of the WD Green range.

 

Personally, I have always had the best luck with single-platter drives. They run quiet and cool (I hate fans!), and seem to last a long time. Sadly, the drive mfrs. have made it harder to know how many platters their drives have. It used to be part of the public specs. Now you have to hunt the info down--and sometimes even weigh the drives to know. Here is a good (but not always complete) resource for this information: The HDD Platter Capacity Database: The HDD Platter Capacity Database

[coxhaus]

As I have said above on my system I can hear a difference in SATA cables and hard drives. I can not make a statement about drives and cables I have not tested. I discovered this as I switched over to Server 2012 so I also can not make a statement about other operating systems, other than Server 2012. I have never tried running from a RAM disk as I am not sure there is an easy way to accomplish this in Server 2012. I have tried running from cache by turning on play from memory in JRiver 19 and I prefer not to use it. My test for this is to listen to delicate passages in music with cache and without. To me it just sounds better straight from the hard drive.

 

PS

Oh, if you are going to make the cache test make sure you have no page file defined. The page file will change the SQ.

[Superdad]

Hi Coxhaus: I hope you know that I agree with and believe you. The drives, especially the interfaces and cables, sound different to me too. But only when they are the real time source of the data (versus a true RAM disk volume wherein the drive is not accessed).

 

I can't comment on Jriver's memory play performance as I have only tried an early Mac version (and didn't like it compared to whatever A+ was current at the time). But as I said, regardless of the players' methods and caching, I think drive storage/interfaces have to be judged against true RAM disk volumes.

 

I just did a quick Google search and there seem to be a number of low cost utilities that will set up a RAM disk under Windows Server 2012. Might want to try it and let us know your results.

 

Best,

Alex C.

[coxhaus]

I think I want to wait for someone to post good results to running Server 2012 using a RAM disk. I am leery of this as I don’t like the play from memory option in JRiver 19. I also think the windows environment is a lot different than the Apple mini environment. I don’t think you will be able to dismount the boot drive in windows server 2012 like you do in the Apple world.

[sandyk]

Many people also report that they sound exactly the same so the only real test is whether they sound different to YOU.

 

In your case I don't doubt they sound the same to you.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/diana-krall-all-you-no-hi-res-download-18750/index2.html#post291082

 

See replies 30,32 and 36.

[kumakuma]

In your case I don't doubt they sound the same to you.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/diana-krall-all-you-no-hi-res-download-18750/index2.html#post291082

 

See replies 30,32 and 36.

 

What's your point?

[Harpy]

Yes thanks Alex. Something to play with.