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Hard Drives Make a Difference in Sound


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(grin) You don't have RDP running on it so you can access it remotely? :)

-Paul

 

 

Oh! :-) My music pc has been tucked back in its cupboard for only a few days now, headless, keyboardless, mouse less, etc with the household brooms, hoover, and loadsa other stuff piled in front/on top, I'll have to wait until my wife is out, so I can turn the cupboard out and put a screen back on it :-o

I'm tempted too!

Cheers

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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RDP... ?

I'm guessing this is remote desktop?

Good plan!

yes I would make a lot of noise throwing out the brooms and hovers and what ever else is in there :-)

(only thinking it will crash and not start so will need a screen to see what's up)

 

Hoover. :-) you don't know what a hoover is? really? :-)

 

 

Mark

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I use Ultra VNC on our windows computers. It is free and not hard to setup. There is an IOS app called Screens that allows us to login to any PC with Ultra VNC service running. My wife loves to check the security cameras at work from her iPad.

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RDP... ?

I'm guessing this is remote desktop?

Good plan!

yes I would make a lot of noise throwing out the brooms and hovers and what ever else is in there :-)

(only thinking it will crash and not start so will need a screen to see what's up)

 

Hoover. :-) you don't know what a hoover is? really? :-)

 

 

Mark

 

"Hoover" is a generic term for vacuum cleaner, like "Kleenex" is a generic term for facial tissue (or "Coke" is a generic term for soft drink, in Texas). "Hoover", though, is not used as such in the US (it's just a slightly old-fashioned brand), so it's an unfamiliar usage for many of us.

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"Hoover" is a generic term for vacuum cleaner,

 

Hoover Dam sucks up water ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Whatever exactly a hoover might be

 

L. Ron Hoover and the First Church of Appliantology

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RDP... ?

I'm guessing this is remote desktop?

Good plan!

yes I would make a lot of noise throwing out the brooms and hovers and what ever else is in there :-)

(only thinking it will crash and not start so will need a screen to see what's up)

 

Hoover. :-) you don't know what a hoover is? really? :-)

 

 

Mark

 

Now I do... :)

 

Yeah, RDP is fast, reliable, free, works on everything, and won't give you any problems unless you are using JRMC video playback. With the machine in a closet- I do not anticipate that to be a problem for you. :)

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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It shows I need to get out more, thinking that everyone knows what a hoover is :-)

 

Anyway, paging file, I took the plunge and switched it off!

PC fired up and started fidelizer carefully and then slimserver, so far so good :-)

Started a track, thinking it is going to be difficult to hear any change.

It did not take long to notice a subtle difference.

 

The only way I can describe the change, is take for example a piano note, say this note is heard with an energy that is spaced out over say 1m cubed, maybe sounding a little airy fairy, with the paging file off, this same amount of energy is condensed into say 0.5m cubed, so each note does not sound so airy fairy, they sound more powerful, or each note has more energy...

 

Technically I like it.

Listening wise, one track I have had to turn down from its normal listening volume as it was a little too much, another I have turned up as it sounds so good....

We will see how it goes :-)

AND lets hope the pc does not fall over!

 

Many Many thanks Coxhaus and Paul for the advice !!!

:-)

Cheers

Mark

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Deaf Cat

 

I am happy no page file is working for you. I guess you have read hear on this site that Windows Server 2012 sounds much better than Windows 7 with Fidelizer. I can attest to that as I switched to Server 2012 from Windows 7 with Fidelizer.

 

If you want to try Server 2012 there is a 6 month trial from Microsoft. I would pull your working hard drive and install Server 2012 on a different Seagate drive then you can always put back your old hard drive without having to install again.

 

lee

AMR 777 DAC, Purist Ultimate USB, PC server 4gig SOTM USB, server 2012, Audiophil Optimizer,Joule Preamp LAP150 Platinum Vcaps Bybee, Spectron Monoblocks Bybee Vcaps, Eggleston Savoy speakers, 2 REL Stentor III subwoofers, Pranawire Cosmos speaker wire, Purist Dominus Praesto cabling, Purist Anniversary (Canorus)power cables and Elrod Statement Gold power cable, VPI Aries I SDS w/Grado The Statement LP, 11kVA power isolation, 16 sound panels and bass traps TAD,RPG,GIK and Realtraps

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Hi Lee,

 

Yes I have thought about the server 2012, especially after your page file difference, but at the moment money's need to go else where, so I'm holding my self back from trying it, very tempting though! will find it hard stepping back so best not even listen ;-)

 

(may well keep an eye on ebay, pc with server 2012 starting at £50.. may get a bargain one day..)

 

Thanks again!

It's still running :-)

Mark

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  • 2 weeks later...

This thread was an embarrassing read. This is the kind of voodoo that gives the hi-fi hobby a bad name.

 

Of course, there's no difference in audio playback between different HDD vendors, and of course, there's no difference in the audio quality coming from an uncompressed wave-file and a lossless FLAC file. The reason is simple: the data is exactly the same in both cases. The data does not change between HDD brands or (non-lossy) file formats.

 

For some people, however, there may indeed be a perceivable difference in audio quality, which can easily be explained with placebo. Placebo is a very real effect, which is why you might experience improved audio quality, but please don't claim there's a technical explanation to the ostensible variation in sound between HDD brands and lossless audio formats. There isn't.

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Always with the "smart guy" who thinks they know it all... (*sigh*)

 

Please, go listen to a few different hard drives in your system and then report back they make no difference. I suggest you try a range, hi-power, low power, bigger cache, spinning, SSD, etc.

-Paul

This thread was an embarrassing read. This is the kind of voodoo that gives the hi-fi hobby a bad name.

 

Of course, there's no difference in audio playback between different HDD vendors, and of course, there's no difference in the audio quality coming from an uncompressed wave-file and a lossless FLAC file. The reason is simple: the data is exactly the same in both cases. The data does not change between HDD brands or (non-lossy) file formats.

 

For some people, however, there may indeed be a perceivable difference in audio quality, which can easily be explained with placebo. Placebo is a very real effect, which is why you might experience improved audio quality, but please don't claim there's a technical explanation to the ostensible variation in sound between HDD brands and lossless audio formats. There isn't.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Always with the "smart guy" who thinks they know it all... (*sigh*)

 

Please, go listen to a few different hard drives in your system and then report back they make no difference. I suggest you try a range, hi-power, low power, bigger cache, spinning, SSD, etc.

-Paul

 

Suppose you were right and there is, in fact, a technical reason that the sound differs between components: what is the scientific explanation behind this phenomenon? What is causing the bits to change, and at what point in the chain do they change?

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Why don't you go and get empirical evidence whether or not you can duplicate the issue before we get into discussion of possible reasons? Then at least, you will have firm footing to argue from, either way.

 

-Paul

 

 

Suppose you were right and there is, in fact, a technical reason that the sound differs between components: what is the scientific explanation behind this phenomenon? What is causing the bits to change, and at what point in the chain do they change?

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Suppose you were right and there is, in fact, a technical reason that the sound differs between components: what is the scientific explanation behind this phenomenon? What is causing the bits to change, and at what point in the chain do they change?

 

It's generally accepted that the bits do not change, but that environmental issues such as the timing of data transfer on the bus, or noise injected on the PC power supply rails by the disc operation, can cause timing variations and injected noise on the interface to the DAC. In turn, these can cause jitter on the clock driving the D-to-A stage in the DAC and/or noise injected into the DAC's analogue output.

 

You can spend time and money tweaking to try and reduce this effect, or you can buy a DAC where the manufacturer has gone to some effort to reduce jitter and electrical noise effects, and can produce the test results to prove it. :)

 

My personal opinion is that if you still hear a difference after that, the cause is likely to be the pea under your mattress... ;):)

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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This thread was an embarrassing read. This is the kind of voodoo that gives the hi-fi hobby a bad name.

 

Of course, there's no difference in audio playback between different HDD vendors, and of course, there's no difference in the audio quality coming from an uncompressed wave-file and a lossless FLAC file. The reason is simple: the data is exactly the same in both cases. The data does not change between HDD brands or (non-lossy) file formats.

 

For some people, however, there may indeed be a perceivable difference in audio quality, which can easily be explained with placebo. Placebo is a very real effect, which is why you might experience improved audio quality, but please don't claim there's a technical explanation to the ostensible variation in sound between HDD brands and lossless audio formats. There isn't.

 

Was Hydrogenaudio down today? Decided to drop by here?

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Why don't you go and get empirical evidence whether or not you can duplicate the issue before we get into discussion of possible reasons? Then at least, you will have firm footing to argue from, either way.

 

-Paul

 

I got into this discussion knowing full well that it would be like going to church and trying to explain to attendees that their entire belief is based on fiction created by man. But I just couldn't refrain.

 

Your remark is a logical fallacy. It is not up to me to refute these claims—it is up to you to prove them. You have a theory that makes no sense whatsoever from a scientific perspective, hence the burden of proof is on you.

 

(Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence: if I were to claim that keeping a pebble submerged in whiskey would eventually turn it to amber, you'd probably think that I'm an idiot and demand an explanation. I would need to prove to you this new alternative theory; you wouldn't have to disprove it.)

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No. Let's look at the facts:

 

You enter into a conversation where people are saying that they have observed some effect with equipment - and those same people specify exactly which equipment they used and what effect they heard. Then you decide based upon a theory you hold to, that those people are are basically imagining things. Then you further require those folks to provide you with proof that your theory is not correct?

 

You would be laughed out of any lab in the country if you tried that. Duplicate the experiment and then report your results. Elsewise all you have is opinion and stating one's opinion like fact usually makes one look foolish. Especially if one then tries the experiment and does not get the results they predicted.

 

If it isn't important enough to get the facts and duplicate the experiment, then it is certainly isn't important enough to insult people. And tossing insults around only becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

Not that you will listen to any of what I just said, your main goal appears to be to mock people and make fun of them in an inane attempt to prove something. Rather resembles the behavior some monkeys exhibit when showing off to attract a female.

 

I honestly do not understand why people think they can pull that on audio people and get away with it...

 

-Paul

 

 

I got into this discussion knowing full well that it would be like going to church and trying to explain to attendees that their entire belief is based on fiction created by man. But I just couldn't refrain.

 

Your remark is a logical fallacy. It is not up to me to refute these claims—it is up to you to prove them. You have a theory that makes no sense whatsoever from a scientific perspective, hence the burden of proof is on you.

 

(Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence: if I were to claim that keeping a pebble submerged in whiskey would eventually turn it to amber, you'd probably think that I'm an idiot and demand an explanation. I would need to prove to you this new alternative theory; you wouldn't have to disprove it.)

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I got into this discussion knowing full well that it would be like going to church and trying to explain to attendees that their entire belief is based on fiction created by man. But I just couldn't refrain.

 

Your remark is a logical fallacy. It is not up to me to refute these claims—it is up to you to prove them. You have a theory that makes no sense whatsoever from a scientific perspective, hence the burden of proof is on you.

 

(Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence: if I were to claim that keeping a pebble submerged in whiskey would eventually turn it to amber, you'd probably think that I'm an idiot and demand an explanation. I would need to prove to you this new alternative theory; you wouldn't have to disprove it.)

 

Evil, you are incorrect in your assumptions. The bits do not change, but computers produce large amounts of noise (electrical noise, and broadcast RF) which can, and do, get into the DAC circuitry. In a high end system, noise interference will produce distortions of many types, and these distortions will be heard in the analog output. This is not folly, it is simple science.

That is all...

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Evil, you are incorrect in your assumptions. The bits do not change, but computers produce large amounts of noise (electrical noise, and broadcast RF) which can, and do, get into the DAC circuitry. In a high end system, noise interference will produce distortions of many types, and these distortions will be heard in the analog output. This is not folly, it is simple science.

That is all...

 

+1

 

Roch

 

P.D.: Extraordinary evidence always comes from our extraordinary sense: Hearing

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Suppose you were right and there is, in fact, a technical reason that the sound differs between components: what is the scientific explanation behind this phenomenon? What is causing the bits to change, and at what point in the chain do they change?

 

Evilapa...........these are arguements that have gone back and forth here for years. Believe me when I say that for the people you're trying to rationalize with......it's not going to happen anytime soon. Just let it go and enjoy CA for what it is. Personally, I love science fiction.

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I think it is rude to just denounce someone's effects in this hobby. I can say the same for interconnects and power cords , but if people hear the chNge then so be it. I use ps audio power regenerators like the P10 or P5 . I hear a improvement very easily and see the chNge in video that is amazing. But the point is there are those here dead set against it

will say it mKes no difference or is bad for the audio. This comes without owning the product. So in the end we all have dis beliefs and likes. Be kind to some one who takes the time to try new things.

Al

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Evilapa...........these are arguements that have gone back and forth here for years. Believe me when I say that for the people you're trying to rationalize with......it's not going to happen anytime soon. Just let it go and enjoy CA for what it is. Personally, I love science fiction.

 

 

Not sure I would suggest that the parties which promote "deny everything without thinking it through and never test anything for themselves" are rational in the least, but every community needs some drama queens... :)

 

More seriously- it would not hurt to emulate the practicing scientists on the forum. Except when joking, I do not think any of them ever denigrate other people's ideas- even when they think those ideas are unlikely. It is purely bad manners, as well as poor methodology, to come into a thread like this and say something like that.

 

Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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